Iraq to Receive M1's?!

[Feanor]

http://lenta.ru/news/2008/08/04/abrams/
http://www.menewsline.com/article-1159,1134-U-S-Plans-Abrams-Sale-To-Iraq.aspx

Whoa. No T-84 for the Iraqi Army. They're going for the M1. Is it feasible? How soon could it happen? And finally (western equipment is a bit of a weak point for me) what's the main differences between the M1A1 and M1A2?

 

[Todjaeger]

http://lenta.ru/news/2008/08/04/abrams/
http://www.menewsline.com/article-1159,1134-U-S-Plans-Abrams-Sale-To-Iraq.aspx

Whoa. No T-84 for the Iraqi Army. They're going for the M1. Is it feasible? How soon could it happen? And finally (western equipment is a bit of a weak point for me) what's the main differences between the M1A1 and M1A2?

The current administration may have proposed and approved such a sale, however I have my doubts as to whether it will go through. Such a sale needs to clear Congress, and there are now only three months until the election. That is plenty of time for politics to come into play, particularly on an item like the M1 being refurbished and sold to Iraq. Particularly given the number of people in the US who wish the US was not still involved there and that there is still some question as to the stability of the government.

Time will tell, but I can easily see this getting stopped, either by Congress, or once the new administration takes office, depending on who wins the election.

-Cheers

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

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[weasel1962]

Re:

<deleted for double posting>

 

[Feanor]

Tanks can easily be effective COIN if used properly. But yes politics or lack of funds could stop it. Then again the Iraqi Army has oreder LAV's and much other equipment that's currently used by the US forces. So it's not out of bounds.

 

[StevoJH]

I would have thought they'd buy something more along the lines of the T80's which are still produced in the Ukraine, or the T90's produced by russia at the moment. The T90 is about half the price of an M1 and is Diesel rather then Turbine powered, so it would probably be easier to maintain.

But i guess its the decision of the Iraqi government and their US Advisors. Maybe they got scared off the T90 because its a T72 Derivative

 

[Chino]

You mean after spending all that money, effort and human lives invading Iraq, that US is gonna let Iraqi defense dollars go to buying Russian tanks? C'mon...

 

[eckherl]

http://lenta.ru/news/2008/08/04/abrams/
http://www.menewsline.com/article-1159,1134-U-S-Plans-Abrams-Sale-To-Iraq.aspx

Whoa. No T-84 for the Iraqi Army. They're going for the M1. Is it feasible? How soon could it happen? And finally (western equipment is a bit of a weak point for me) what's the main differences between the M1A1 and M1A2?

This deal will not go thru, Congress will see to it. As I mentioned in a couple of other threads, Iraq wants to have a fully modernized Regiment of armor on hand, the requests have also gone out to other countries to see who will sell them equipment.

So you just may still see T-84s, or how about some Leclercs.

 

[StevoJH]

This deal will not go thru, Congress will see to it. As I mentioned in a couple of other threads, Iraq wants to have a fully modernized Regiment of armor on hand, the requests have also gone out to other countries to see who will sell them equipment.

So you just may still see T-84s, or how about some Leclercs.

Challenger II?

Wait, i'm fairly sure thats the most expensive tank of them all, never mind.

 

[eckherl]

I would have thought they'd buy something more along the lines of the T80's which are still produced in the Ukraine, or the T90's produced by russia at the moment. The T90 is about half the price of an M1 and is Diesel rather then Turbine powered, so it would probably be easier to maintain.

But i guess its the decision of the Iraqi government and their US Advisors. Maybe they got scared off the T90 because its a T72 Derivative

No - they are still picking up additional T-72 tanks, just not from Russia.
Iraq does operate Ukrainian APCs and have requested a look at the T-84, please keep in mind that Ukrainian troops have participated in the Coalition and have performed on a outstanding level, now some Ukrainian companies may be rewarded with some sales.

 

[eckherl]

Challenger II?

Wait, i'm fairly sure thats the most expensive tank of them all, never mind.

No - not the most expensive, just the one that offers two piece crappy ammunition that is unpredictable during extreme temperature changes.

 

[StevoJH]

No - not the most expensive, just the one that offers two piece crappy ammunition that is unpredictable during extreme temperature changes.

Oh? They have ammunition problems?

As for being expensive, with a 4 million pound price tag that puts them at over 8 million per unit. T90 is ~3mil and M1 ~5Mil i thought.

 

[osage_18]

Good, I hope they buy some from the U.S. with the $100 Billion surplus they have...

 

[Chrom]

Oh? They have ammunition problems?

As for being expensive, with a 4 million pound price tag that puts them at over 8 million per unit. T90 is ~3mil and M1 ~5Mil i thought.

M1 is much more expensive, 5 mil is fairly old price tag. Example: in 1998 M1/M1A1 upgrade to M1A2 variant for US army was prices at ~ 3 mil a piece. Just an upgrade, and in 1998 dollars... Since then prices nearly doubled.

IN 2006, upgrading M1A2 to M1A2SEP cost ~ 2.2 mil $.

A lot of contracts here: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

 

[StevoJH]

M1 is much more expensive, 5 mil is fairly old price tag. Example: in 1998 M1/M1A1 upgrade to M1A2 variant for US army was prices at ~ 3 mil a piece. Just an upgrade, and in 1998 dollars... Since then prices nearly doubled.

IN 2006, upgrading M1A2 to M1A2SEP cost ~ 2.2 mil $.

A lot of contracts here: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

Well, the only price i could fine for the challenger was from 1999, so i have no idea what they'd cost now with inflation. I think you win this one from lack of oposition if nothing else. (really not worth arguing about)

 

[eckherl]

Oh? They have ammunition problems?

As for being expensive, with a 4 million pound price tag that puts them at over 8 million per unit. T90 is ~3mil and M1 ~5Mil i thought.

Yes - propellants are erratic at extreme temperature changes, thus *one* of the reasons they are going to L55s.

It is not a question of cost to Iraq, they will not go with Russian T-90s due to political reasons, but the T-90S would be a nice addition and a fully capable tank.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

So are they going to build new M1A1 tanks?

 

[Waylander]

Never ever. IF (a big if IMHO but maybe I am going to see a surprise) they get Abrams they are going to get refurbished ones.

One question is if they are able to maintain them properly.
Their maintenance and training record was not stellar when they were still using T-72s and Type 69s.
I bet they need to rely heavily on contractors if they want to get a high rate of availability and decent training in the near future.
The same would go for a beast like the Leclerc and to a lightly lesser extent for T-90s and T-84s.

And I am questioning if it is wise to spend alot of their available money for new shiny military kit.
As if there is nothing else to do in their country...

 

[baranek]

Does anyone have a reliable source on how many M1 of all versions there are in US Army and USMC inventory ?

 

[Chrom]

Never ever. IF (a big if IMHO but maybe I am going to see a surprise) they get Abrams they are going to get refurbished ones.

One question is if they are able to maintain them properly.
Their maintenance and training record was not stellar when they were still using T-72s and Type 69s.
I bet they need to rely heavily on contractors if they want to get a high rate of availability and decent training in the near future.
The same would go for a beast like the Leclerc and to a lightly lesser extent for T-90s and T-84s.

And I am questioning if it is wise to spend alot of their available money for new shiny military kit.
As if there is nothing else to do in their country...

It would be nightmare for Iraqis to keep Abrams going - plus, of course, a BIG pile of money.