Royal Saudi Navy capability and threats

[bolheed]

well respond to the rest mate.
So 70 % engaged you say,but it was you who said that they dont stand a chance and that it will be a turkey shoot out,and they have no airdefences or Anti-ship defences,so all what it needs is an Air strike and thats it.

So if the Americans didnt truely know that they need 100 % force to go agianst the Iranians they would have attacked for sure,right?

I guess you said it your self they maty,it needs their whole Military if confront the Iranians and thats the case.

So they have those defences and they have the power and its their Highly equiped defences counter measures which is delaying the attack.

Hmmmmm.

Well that was a trick which you clearly fell in,its true that fox news said that,and they are clearly Bias,but why didnt you look at what Jane's defence said about those S-300,now you see that you only try to find something small so you could say hay ....bla bla bla.

So you grabbed what i wrote about fox and slipped your mind to see the Jane's report,pretty proffessional...

 

[Rish]

well respond to the rest mate.
So 70 % engaged you say,but it was you who said that they dont stand a chance and that it will be a turkey shoot out,and they have no airdefences or Anti-ship defences,so all what it needs is an Air strike and thats it.

So if the Americans didnt truely know that they need 100 % force to go agianst the Iranians they would have attacked for sure,right?

I guess you said it your self they maty,it needs their whole Military if confront the Iranians and thats the case.

So they have those defences and they have the power and its their Highly equiped defences counter measures which is delaying the attack.

Hmmmmm.

Well that was a trick which you clearly fell in,its true that fox news said that,and they are clearly Bias,but why didnt you look at what Jane's defence said about those S-300,now you see that you only try to find something small so you could say hay ....bla bla bla.

So you grabbed what i wrote about fox and slipped your mind to see the Jane's report,pretty proffessional...

Hey, could you post some links to the claims you've made so far. You've been telling everyone to go research the information for themselves, but to end this argument could you send the links to some credible sources? Not wikipedia, and dont say check janes or some other website. Send the link.

 

[Dave H]

Bolheed, There are more factors the US not yet attacking Iran than just available strength. Politically the US administration needs to know the electorate will support it. It needs political allies both amongst the middle eastern states and the wider world. The more the Iranian government fire off missiles, makes statements about attacking Israel and continues to run a nuclear programme, then the closer that point comes when the US and sme of us in the UK say "enough is enough".

As much as you list Iranian superweapons, or mysterious upgrades, when it comes, the attack on Iran will be particularly dull in its outcome, by that I mean the inevitable demise of the Iranian regime.

There will be elements in Iran who welcome the destruction of the regime and within hours of hostilities the regime will be unable to rule due to paralysis of state broadasting, communications and command structures.

Due to the nuclear programme, Iran must be one of the most surveilled states on earth. Any Iranin build up such as this supposedly massive navy leaving port to close the straits, will be spotted. I would imagine US and Israeli planners know the positions and vulnerabilites of Iranian airdefences, the location of command structures, ballistic missiles etc.

The Iranian radar and command and control will be shut down in minutes, the Iranian airforce shot from the sky, Ballistic misisle bases hammered from the air and attacked by special forces . The rest of the Iranian military will soon by mopped up over several weeks of sustained attack from carriers, bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US and any allies would take losses, but I just cant see enough loses to make any difference.

We have heard all this "mother of all battles", "burning our enemies" rubbish before.

 

[Salah-ed-Din]

Although I do not agree with a lot of the things bolheed says, I find that you (Dave H) also make the same mistake in rethoric. Iran may be under intensive surveillance but you saying what you said:

"The Iranian radar and command and control will be shut down in minutes, the Iranian airforce shot from the sky, Ballistic misisle bases hammered from the air and attacked by special forces . The rest of the Iranian military will soon by mopped up over several weeks of sustained attack from carriers, bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US and any allies would take losses, but I just cant see enough loses to make any difference."

is the same as what Israel said/thought when attacking Lebanon in the summer of 2006. In the end it was the Hezbollah who prevailed. I think the truth will be in the middle. Iran is capable of putting up a defense and in a heads on war under normal circumstances the US would not have problems dealing with the conventional forces of Iran. But in the Middle East things are seldom normal and with the US tied up everywhere and the possible concequences of an attack on Iran for the occupation forces of the US I do not dare to predict the result of an attack on Iran.

 

[al3ameed]

Although I do not agree with a lot of the things bolheed says, I find that you (Dave H) also make the same mistake in rethoric.

Agree with you Salah ed-din.

Now let's get beck to the Saudi Navy please

 

[Dave H]

Hezbollah prevailed? Israel is still the regional superpower. Isnt Hezbollah heavily backed by Iran? Even more reason to remove the threat. I dont think the US would enter Iran as an occupying force, they just need to hammer the Iranian military and regime from the air and destroy as much of the nuclear programme as possible, then see if the mullahs can remain in power.

On to the Saudi navy, are they still looking to buy large air defence ships such as the Type 45? or will Typhoon provide enough edge to defend Saudi territory and oil facilities.

 

[Feanor]

So you say that they are cold war era...But taking a look at when the F-16 or the other advanced aircraft in the United States airforce,i can clearly see that those weapons were made at the same time,so the age of the weapon cannot be viewed as a major deteriant factor to its value in a great extent,so these weapons and airdefences are of the same age considerebly as the the Jets flown today,except of course some of the other Jets like the F-22A raptor...

First off the majority of Iranian weapons are much older then the F-16. Second of all USAF F-16's have been modernized extensively, not something we can say of Iranian AD. Thirdly American pilots receive superior flight hours and training.

Well Feanor as i told you before,if you could tell me what source you would consider solid,i will provide the source,but until then every source that i will provide will be considered by you as unworthy and other things.So you tell me what source you want.

Great. Give me all the sources you have on Iran having the S-300. All of them. I'll look through them, and we can see which ones are any good. Also keep in mind a source that says Iran might have some S-300's is not the same as a source that says Iran does have some S-300's.

I know its 2008 but i also know that these weapons are not garbage as you say,they all can be upgraded if you heard of that,and the same happens to aircrafts were they update it with Kits,so these Airdefences have also been upgraded and thus no further are they obselute.

Iranian AD has been upgraded? K. Lets see some evidence. Any evidence. New designations to denote the upgrade, components and upgrade programs used. Contractors and sub-contractors of the upgrades.

Well the 29 tor's are not capable of guarding Tehran but they are certainly more than capable of completly shutting down the strait of hrmoz area,so the former allegation made by some members is shot down as well,so no Turkey shoot out my friends for Iranian military forces in this strait.
So if i want to debate only this situation then you are clearly are not really aware of the Iranian defence measures my friends.

Yes. They can. But only if the enemy doesn't decide to kill them. They're meant to be part of an IADS. Iran would be using them as stand alone systems.

And you think only 29 tor's have been deliverd,so from 2006 they have not been able to buy new defence systems which are very well known of their capability,well either you guys have no sense of analatical capability or the Iranians are simply Dumbt,but i guess i will go with number one here mates.

Sources for the additional purchases you claim. Speculation is no good.

The Guns that the Iranians hold are far more powerfull than those rusty guns used in bagdad,so let that one out,and think twice about the effect of those on low altitude aircrafts.

What guns? Models of the guns please. ZSU-23-4, and ZSU-23-2 are not any more modern then anything Iraq had.

FoxNews have repeatedly shown that they have aquired the S-300,along with other media resources but manage with what i have previosly written and it will be more than enough for the Military comunity.

"Jane’s Defence Weekly Exclusive: Iran to acquire advanced air defence system via Syria"

Iran is set to acquire at least 10 96K6 Pantsyr-S1E self-propelled short-range gun and missile air defence systems, resulting from a major deal struck between Syria and Russia earlier this year.

Ok. Great. 10 more mobile point air defense systems. Now lets look. Only ten purchased. Hmm. And Iran has this fetish with reverse engineering western and eastern weapons. I wonder why they bought those Pantsyrs? Surely they're going to be inducted into the military and used for defense of Iran, rather then reverse engineered for domestic production.

This procurement has been most notably from Russia and has included various types of advanced air defence systems, including the S-300PMU-1/2 systems; 29 Tor M1 systems and the S-125M1 Pechora-2A (SA-3 ‘ Goa’) low-to-medium altitude air defence system and deployed these systems at its most sensitive infrastructure assets. (ENDS)

Gaze upon this source maties and figure some more facts.

Link to the source. Again, we're also still waiting on you to produce the photos that Swerve asked for earlier. If Iran had S-300's they would be parading them around and showing them off as much as possible.

 

[kato]

What guns? Models of the guns please. ZSU-23-4, and ZSU-23-2 are not any more modern then anything Iraq had.

Just pointing it out as this system is superior and more modern:

Iran unveiled a local copy of the Swiss/German Skyguard system half a year ago. Called "Samawat".
EO Sensor on the system looks like a clone of the one on the Chinese Type-90 Skyguard copy. Claimed performance (below) is identical to Skyguard or Type-90.

Info:
http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=249436&n=12
http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8610/ImageReports/8610250401/1_8610250401_L600.jpg
[ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vXrd1V-MKa4"]YouTube - Iran Produces Anti-Aircraft Cannon: Samavat[/ame]

Of course Iraq had Skyguard too though ;-)

 

[Feanor]

All the point air defense systems in the world will do them no good if they don't have the AD fighters and theater SAMs to control the airspace. Or the radars to track targets within the airspace. An IADS is meant to project a cupola of airspace control over the theater. Instead of a single large area, with redundant coverage of most areas, they have dozens of well defended areas in terms of point air defense, with no overall control. And without the AEW they won't have the warning time that USAF is inbound.

 

[f-22fan12]

Feanor is right on the fact that they need to have more then just point air defenses, which they do. But fact is it probobly won't be the USAF hitting Iran. It will probobly be the U.S. Navy. The Iranian air defenses could probobly cause some problems for the Super Hornets. But if it was the USAF with F-22s that hit first, well, that would be a different story.

 

[AtaSaudi]

Does Saudi Arabia have to buy submarines to increase its capability?