Marine Nationale (French Navy)

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overlander

Member
ASFC said:
Don't you mean second Carrier?


Anyway as for the suggestion of getting the Air Force to operate Marine Rafales, take a look at Joint Force Harrier. How much time do our Harriers actually get at sea? MN would be better off waiting until the budget is better and buying more Rafales later rather than accepting that its Air Arm will take a permanent cut and rely on the air force for support.
This of course could be academic-I always thought the MN was a one carrier navy-i.e. operate two carriers to guarentee one carrier in service.
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and now the R.N. is a 3 carrier navy (1 in reserve) and only 1 operational, we will see when the 2 new carriers are finished if they will be in action or only 1 and the other in refit/reserve as have happened with the invincible class.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
overlander said:
we will see when the 2 new carriers are finished if they will be in action or only 1 and the other in refit/reserve as have happened with the invincible class.
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The Invincible class has limited availability to save money so that the new carriers can be built - once they're in service the budget pressure will have gone, especially given that other projects will have been completed/paid for too.

Inevitably the ships will go into refit, but hopefully there will be many times when both carriers are available. Neither will be put into "deep reserve".
 
N

neil

New Member
New white paper released

I read in the news today that according to the new white paper the number of FREMMS has been cut to 11 and the total surface escort force reduced to 18 by 2020.

Apparently all six Barracuda's will be bought, with the number of land attack
Scalps reduced to 100.

Any more info?
 
O

overlander

Member
I read nothing about if they will built or not the PA2, on the other hand they will increase the amphibious capability with the construction of 2 new Mistral class LHD,s and thiese are good news for the marine nationale, Concerning to the escort force it will be reduced to 18 but adding to these number the floreal class OPV,s I thing.
 
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WillS

Member
overlander said:
I read nothing about if they will built or not the PA2, on the other hand they will increase the amphibious capability with the construction of 2 new Mistral class LHD,s and thiese are good news for the marine nationale, Concerning to the escort force it will be reduced to 18 but adding to these number the floreal class OPV,s I thing.
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The 'Secret Defense' blog indicates that the PA2 decision has been delayed until 2011.

As for the Mistrals, the paper sets a target of four being available by 2020. That's a long way away and leaves a lot of room for a change of priorities before any orders need to be placed. How on earth the French expect to be able to protect a carrier group plus maintain "the capability to deploy one or two naval groups either for amphibious operations or for the protection of sea lines" with only 2 Horizons and a couple of air defence FREMMS is beyond me. You cannot rely on coalitions for this kind of thing, especially given the different rules of engagement different governments impose on their forces (as in Afghanistan).

The paper also sets a 'target' of 6 SSNs. To me that sounds like they are uncertain about Barracuda numbers.

WillS
www.boilingthefrog.co.uk
 
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Spacearrow99

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #151
WillS said:
The 'Secret Defense' blog indicates that the PA2 decision has been delayed until 2011.

As for the Mistrals, the paper sets a target of four being available by 2020. That's a long way away and leaves a lot of room for a change of priorities before any orders need to be placed. How on earth the French expect to be able to protect a carrier group plus maintain "the capability to deploy one or two naval groups either for amphibious operations or for the protection of sea lines" with only 2 Horizons and a couple of air defence FREMMS is beyond me. You cannot rely on coalitions for this kind of thing, especially given the different rules of engagement different governments impose on their forces (as in Afghanistan).

The paper also sets a 'target' of 6 SSNs. To me that sounds like they are uncertain about Barracuda numbers.

WillS
www.boilingthefrog.co.uk
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The two new Mistrals will probably replace the Foudre and Siroco LPDs. They will be 30 and 22 years old in 2020.
 
K

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Meaning they last at least another 10 years.

The more likely thing would be one Mistral to replace Jeanne d'Arc (in the relatively short term), and a second replacing the current nominal capacity in the Mediterranean provided by EDICs and the two LSLs (Gapeau and Bougainville).

Mistrals are relatively cheap, and both of these roles could even be filled with reduced systems. The Foudres are still "worth" quite a bit, as their dock is simply huge, and able to transport smaller ships.
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
kato said:
Meaning they last at least another 10 years.

The more likely thing would be one Mistral to replace Jeanne d'Arc (in the relatively short term), and a second replacing the current nominal capacity in the Mediterranean provided by EDICs and the two LSLs (Gapeau and Bougainville).

Mistrals are relatively cheap, and both of these roles could even be filled with reduced systems. The Foudres are still "worth" quite a bit, as their dock is simply huge, and able to transport smaller ships.
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when is JdA due to be decommissioned [so how much time dose France have to order a replacement].
How dose Foudres compare with the Intrepid class [I compare them with Intrepid as they are closer in age compared with the Albion's]

also in regards to the LSL's are they staying in service for the perceivable future.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
harryriedl said:
when is JdA due to be decommissioned [so how much time dose France have to order a replacement].
How dose Foudres compare with the Intrepid class [I compare them with Intrepid as they are closer in age compared with the Albion's]

also in regards to the LSL's are they staying in service for the perceivable future.
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Foudre & Siroco are much closer in age to the Albions than the Intrepids. Foudre launched 1988, commissioned 1990, Siroco 1996/1998, Albion 2001/2003.

I think you may be confusing them with the now retired Orage & Ouragan, commissioned 1965 & 1968. Fearless & Intrepid were commissioned 1965 & 1967.
 
K

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
harryriedl said:
also in regards to the LSL's are they staying in service for the perceivable future.
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Both are rather small, medium/large LSTs of sorts really - just with a primary support role, ie. transferring equipment, boats and so on. Bougainville decommed last month, Gapeau (which is really just a larger EDIC) will probably make it another year or two.

Sure, they can bridge that via other capabilities (including charter), but over the short to medium term they'll have to think about a replacement. If a "reduced" Mistral would be bought as a JdA replacement, this could be considered in that.

By reduction i mean a capability downgrade comparable to the Bay class LSLs vs "proper" Enforcer LPDs with near-identical hull.
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
swerve said:
Foudre & Siroco are much closer in age to the Albions than the Intrepids. Foudre launched 1988, commissioned 1990, Siroco 1996/1998, Albion 2001/2003.

I think you may be confusing them with the now retired Orage & Ouragan, commissioned 1965 & 1968. Fearless & Intrepid were commissioned 1965 & 1967.
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yes i think I have confused them :confused:
 
Y

youpii

New Member
The A69 corvettes will be replaced later, maybe with FM400s frigates/OPVs. If that's true, it will bring better blue water capability because FM400s should be at least twice as large as A69s.
 
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Sea Toby

New Member
Training exercises on an American carrier off Norfolk which is not deployed to the Indian Ocean, there isn't going to be a large chance of a war. The French could easily fly off the carrier and American aircraft could easily replace them off the Virginia coast.

I am sure the French look forward to their training, and the Americans look forward to friendly relations, much like a foreign exchange. A squadron of Rafaels and some Hawkeyes isn't that big of a deal.
 
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Sea Toby

New Member
There were already plans for a third Mistral as a training ship, adding a fourth Mistral to replace older smaller ships is a good idea. One can never have enough sea lift. I would rather have the sea lift than having more ocean escorts, there isn't much of a submarine threat across the North Atlantic any more.

As long as any OPV, or LCS has the capability of carrying an ASW helicopter, ASW torpedo tubes, and a good sonar, you have a sufficient ocean escort. There are no need for expensive long or medium range SAMs.

Of course, it is a different story with carrier and amphibious task group escorts.
 
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