Australian Army Discussions and Updates

lobbie111

New Member
small....AD you dissapoint me...:)

it better be just a prototype because those colours are way to bright for Australian conditions.

Has anyone had word on any adoption of new camoflague patterns by the ADF in the future, just for interests sake, this would really suit australia. Notice how the digital pattern is placed over the top to create shadow, and the backround colour changes as the light hits it.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
small....AD you dissapoint me...:)

it better be just a prototype because those colours are way to bright for Australian conditions.

Has anyone had word on any adoption of new camoflague patterns by the ADF in the future, just for interests sake, this would really suit australia. Notice how the digital pattern is placed over the top to create shadow, and the backround colour changes as the light hits it.
I'm fairly sure that photo is CGI, hence the brightness of it.

I imagine that when line gun cars in 1 Armd Regt are actually fitted with these systems, they will fit our conditions a tad better.

Sorry about the size.... I'll try better next time. :)
 

lobbie111

New Member
No Problems AD, just curious but whats that stuff like in a fire? if It caught fire could the crew be potentially trapped until the flames are put out? And yes I do agree it was CGI.

What is the time scale we are looking at? less than 3 months?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
small....AD you dissapoint me...:)

it better be just a prototype because those colours are way to bright for Australian conditions....
They supply to the Swedish army, & Swedish countryside in winter (when not white) is very dull-coloured. In the photos (real photos, not photoshopped) I've seen of their stuff it looks - inconspicuous.

Interesting you say "for Australian conditions". When I lived in Sydney for a while, I found the vegetation rather dull-coloured compared to spring and summer (winter's different: more brown) here in England. Shades of greyish-green, perhaps blue-grey-green, to my eyes. Some trees here have similar coloured leaves, but most are brighter shades of green.

Southern Sweden has quite a lot of the same bright greens at the right time of year, but as one goes north, the greens get darker & duller. But I'm sure Saab has colours suited to many climates & conditions.
 

lobbie111

New Member
Interesting you say "for Australian conditions". When I lived in Sydney for a while, I found the vegetation rather dull-coloured compared to spring and summer (winter's different: more brown) here in England. Shades of greyish-green, perhaps blue-grey-green, to my eyes. Some trees here have similar coloured leaves, but most are brighter shades of green.
Yes I agree that more greyish colours are suited to australian conditions, as I stated in a previous post, this is what your looking for, it highlights the grey's in the pattern, this camo was especially designed for paintball and as such is designed to minimise your visual signature at 30m, here is what you were reffering to, the bluish grey of the brush highlights australian conditions perfectly (also includes a picture of the camo in action)

Here are some other pictures

One
Two
Three
Four

Sorry I can't find any better ones at present
 

riksavage

Banned Member

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
No Problems AD, just curious but whats that stuff like in a fire? if It caught fire could the crew be potentially trapped until the flames are put out? And yes I do agree it was CGI.

What is the time scale we are looking at? less than 3 months?
Shouldn't be more of a problem than the usual camo nets + vegetation one throws over combat vehicles.
I expect it to be even less sensitive to heat and fire than the usual stuff.
 

winnyfield

New Member
Wouldn't be surprised if it gets applied to other vehicles.

Barracuda promotional video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhUZPBiiunI"]YouTube - Advanced Mobile Camouflage Systems[/ame]
 

lobbie111

New Member
Saabs website has pictures of the stuff on ASLAV's I have noticed with this (although not important) that when you put it on there is a fine line between not enough and too much and it detracts from the look of the vehicle
 

flyboyEB

New Member
Slight change of topic, but a former Australian infantryman in Afghanistan has recieved a 'Commendation for Gallantry'

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23832753-31477,00.html?from=public_rss

TRENT Ollis has grown tired of what he perceives as a failure by average Australians to understand what their troops are doing in Afghanistan.
Mr Ollis, 27, who spent seven months as an infantry soldier in Afghanistan, was awarded the Commendation for Gallantry in the military awards section of the Queen's Birthday honours list.
The award was granted for "gallantry in action in hazardous circumstances" when the then Private Ollis was lead scout of a platoon attacked by Taliban forces at Musazai, in Afghanistan, on August 8 last year.
During a patrol, his platoon, part of the Security Task Group protecting engineers of the 2nd Reconstruction Task Force, was ambushed by the Taliban. "Private Ollis," his citation reads, "led his platoon to safety.
"During this contact, he was directly engaged by small arms, machinegun and rocket-propelled grenade fire, with one grenade landing 15m from him and another passing 2m over his head. He remained in unprotected positions in open ground, reporting enemy locations to his command, and laid down suppressing fire which neutralised the effect of enemy fire and flanking manoeuvres and allowed his platoon to break contact safely and withdraw."
The action, which lasted more than four hours, was one of several firefights he was involved in during his seven-month deployment in Afghanistan.
But Mr Ollis, who recently left the army to pursue a career in fitness and sport, says he often has trouble explaining to people that his main job over there was not to fight the enemy, but to "protect engineers who were building stuff for the people of Afghanistan".
He says people he meets, especially those who were opposed to Australian involvement in the Iraq war, often confuse the two conflicts and have the wrong impression of what Australian troops are doing in Afghanistan.
"I think we were doing a very important job over there," Mr Ollis said.
"I found it very rewarding. Basically, from my experience dealing with the Afghani people, I believe they want our help. They're happy to see us. We're helping them build schools and hospitals. They can't hate that."
 

xhxi558

New Member
Departing chief flags bigger army

Patrick Walters, National security editor | July 05, 2008

THE army may have to increase in size beyond its planned 30,000 ceiling in the face of a more volatile global security environment.

Lieutenant-General Peter Leahy, who retired on Thursday after serving six years as army chief, said the army was more likely to be called on to meet the challenges thrown up by a "fractured and troubled planet" as more and more deployments were likely to be "land-centric".

"If this volatility is sustained ... in the next five to 10 years, there could be an argument for a larger army," General Leahy told The Weekend Australian in a farewell interview.

He said he could also see the possible deployment of the army's Abrams tanks as well as heavy artillery to Oruzgan province in Afghanistan in the event that existing capabilities provided by the Dutch were withdrawn.

"I think that is one of the potential deployments for not only the Abrams but artillery. Currently in the south of Afghanistan the Canadians have Leopard tanks.

"We routinely use Dutch attack helicopters and Dutch self-propelled artillery. If the Dutch were not to have those there, or they would be unavailable, I think we would have to consider very seriously the provision of our own fire support of that nature."

General Leahy said he believed Afghanistan was "winnable" but would require a sustained effort for five or more years, which had to go well beyond the military deployment. "We can only do so much and then you need people to help with education, roads and the economy, and everything else that needs to be done."

But he stressed NATO countries should commit more military resources to the counter-insurgency struggle before Australia increased its military contribution.

General Leahy rejected arguments by some middle-ranking officers that the special forces were enjoying preferment over the regular infantry battalions when it came to war-fighting, with the infantry restricted to protection and stabilisation tasks.

"But I have the confidence that when we need them to get involved in a real stoush, they will be able to do that," he said. "I am very comfortable with the tasking we have given the special forces - strategic reconnaissance and disruption roles - they are the best people to be doing that.

Army recruitment rates were the best in years despite the skills shortage with retention rates now averaging just over 10 per cent. "I keep hearing about Generation Y, the short attention spans, wanting more. We are getting Generation Y but they are not the ones I see described in the literature.

"These are people who are making a commitment and are proud to do the traditional things and are prepared to go overseas and accept the difficulties and the dangers ... I think Australia should be very proud of them."


If Australia does need to increase its army past 30,000 what shape would that increase come in?

Rounding out the existing 3 brigades to each have 4 battalions (ie delinking the 8/9 RAR in 7bde and adding an additional brigades. How many would we add, if we added 3, it would effectively allow the government to deploy 2 brigade sized forces simultaneously over long peiods?

Regardless of the size of the increase, it would require plenty of cap spend by the army, not just in vehicles but bases, artillery, helicopters and possibly expanding the air lift capabilities of the RAAF.

Would we also look at increasing the size of the reserves?

All of this would be difficult/impossible with the current budget constraints. The 2008/09 budget has putaway $3b for running the existing 3 brigades and aviation, that plus cap spend, additional support elements and recruiting/retention issues would require a significant mindshift.
 

Navor86

Member
I somehow doubt that it would be possible to get 6 Brigades each with 4 Bn.
At max I think that Australia would be able to get a Ground Combat Force Similiar to the Ground Combat Element of I MEF or II MEF of the USMC(9-12 InfantryBn,4 Arty,2 LAV one Abrams Bn+ Support)+4th RAR and SASR.
So at max 2 Infantry Bn could be possible counted on the current Population for "peacetime" Operation.But even with this 9 regular+4th RAR it woul be a major step,which could see 2 Infantry Bn deployed at all time+1 on high ready reserve(+Abrams,Aslav and Arty)
 

The Infantryman

New Member
There are a huge number of army reservists serving OS in various roles. These are people who've put in leave from their civvie jobs, wives, girlfriends, etc, to deploy overseas. I think it is possible to create the new battalions, but use reservists to fill them on a 6 monthly contract. I envisage many would end up using the opportunity to go full time. There's too much red tape involved when reservists try to go full time.
 

riksavage

Banned Member
Unfortunately the long-life span associated with the war on terror means the Aus army must expand in order to continue maintaining a credible force on overseas deployments without suffering a high attrition rate or drop in skill sets.

Theoretically to maintain just one battalion’s worth of infantry indefinitely on active service for six months (allowing a twelve month break before the next operational tour) means you will need a total of three battalions, as follows:

1 x Infantry battalion on active duty (six month tour)
1 x Infantry battalion equipping and training for active service (six months)
1 x Infantry battalion on leave, promotion and trade courses (six months)

Plus Australia has to maintain a credible response for any unseen emergency on its backdoor. I don’t know how Australia has managed for so long with only a single figure number of regular Infantry Battalions.

IMHO the UK/ANSAC should jointly fund / administer a Gurkha Brigade made up of three light Infantry Battalions, plus signals, RCT and Engineers similar to what used to be based in HK. Station it in Australia and share the equipment costs. Officers and senior NCO’s from all three countries can apply in the same way as is currently required with the Royal Gurkha Rifles. The fact that NZ, Aus and the UK follow the same Regimental and rank system should make for a pretty straight forward transition.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Rick, i strongly disagree with the gurkha idea. We are strong enough to maintain a full streangth INF division with 9 Bns, SASR and a Comando Bn without resorting to a "mercenary" type unit based here. I would see it like sending in poor 3rd world soldiers to a campaign we are not prepared to send our own. i know thats not the motivation, but it would look like that to some. no we have the economy and population to maintain a full streangth division of our own. and IMO we need a full strength div. when i joined in 1985, Army had 6 Bns, SASR and everything was still in vietnam mode, training and equipment. From 86 onwards, army focused on SPE operations with secondary cold war training. manning was 32000 on paper, but much less in reality. then we went to 4 reg bns, and ready reserve....we can, and need to maintain 9 regular bns, de link 8/9 RAR, create a regular CDO regt and 4RAR back to INF would be the way to go IMO.
 

PeterM

Active Member
Wasn't Australia offered Ghurka regiments when Hong Kong was handed back?
These units were eventually decommissioned.

This was well before the war on terror. The ADF's strategic needs have certainly changed.

Considering the chronic manpower shortages faced by the ADF, it may be worth reconsidering having a Ghurka battalion to increase our operational strength. Ghurkas are quality light infantry; It has worked very effectrively for the British; the ADF could leverage the British experience if required.

It is not the ideal solution, but we do need frontline soliders and haven't been able to attract anything like the numbers the ADF needs in some time; that is not including the low retention rate.
 

the road runner

Active Member
My 2 cents is that i would love to see the Australian government put some money in the top end of australia to educate the indigenouse aboriginal kids of this country,in doing so it would give Australia a pool of educated, athletic and patriotic pool of people,to go into industry,health,education and of course the ADF.(i know this will not resolve the retention issues in the ADF now, but intime it might)
I know there are a number of indegiounes people in the ADF now and they are considered a valuable asset in ADF.I do not like the idea of supporting another countries nation,arming and traning these people when we can train our own.
I just think that there are a number of indigenouse people who do not get the same opporunities that other australians recieve in larger towns,cities.
People(especially educated people) in war time are always an asset so why would we not give our own countrymen and women the education that is needed. Im of the opinion that an educated person will, give more to a country than an un -educated person,so why not educate these Indigenouse people for FREE?(they need as much help as we can offer them)
I just see it as a wasted resource(indeginouse people drinking ect)and i see this as the government failing the indeginouse people of this country.
We do have a pool of indeginouse people in the top,who protect our nations soverinty (north force i think?)

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/200804/s2210596.htm

http://www.trinity.wa.edu.au/plduffyrc/indig/war.htm

Please,what do the other forum members think?
 
Top