Ireland to buy Javelin Anti-Tank Weapon System

[Super Nimrod]

If only Irish military could persuade their Govt to front up the readies for even half a dozen AH-64's, that would significantly improve their capability in the peacekeeping roll, indeed they would be a force to be reckoned with just like the Dutch in this roll. They could even share training with the Brits and no doubt share some of the logistics train.

 

[Rossiman]

Thank you ST for the info of Irish deployments. I was trying to get on the IDF site and couldn't get on to find that.

My observations of javelins. It is an impressive weapon. It is an expensive weapon. Reloads for Irelands budget probably won't be an option. Looking back at the NZ deal I imagine Ireland won't be getting more than what, 20 missiles or less? With the support costs that doesn't leave many missiles. Personally I think getting 1 used advanced MBT would be a better investment. Whatever tanks the peacekeepers come across will not be quality tanks. Their javelins will be worth more than the T-34/55 target tank they come across. Getting a surplus Leopard will be more than enough to take out a whole column of enemy tanks, plus she gets reloads on the cheap!

Ya, investing in a good attack copter or a tank would be a much better option. Dont they already got some ATGM's?

 

[cimino]

Does anyone know if Ireland has retired it's MILAN ATGW units as a result of the Javelin purchase? And did they ever bring MILAN's on overseas missions?

 

[Chrom]

Does anyone know if Ireland has retired it's MILAN ATGW units as a result of the Javelin purchase? And did they ever bring MILAN's on overseas missions?

They could do it if Milan ATGM's stock run out of service life. I dont know when exactly was last MILAN ATGM delivers - but most ATGM's have about ~ 20 years service life.

Most likely both Javelin and MILAN are still in Irish inventory.

 

[IrishHitman]

This is unsurprising given Ireland's UN role, and the fact that Thales' AT/AA missile facility is about 40 miles away from the border up in Belfast.

For all those "gungho" military junkies who don't know, Ireland is a constitutionally neutral country, and sees real MBTs as a weapon intended for offensive actions of the aggressive nature rather than the self-defence nature.

And will therefore, never "go buy some second-hand Leopards", and will never require their use anyway. Whoever suggested Apaches/Longbows can sincerely kiss my ass, Ireland has no need for that

For whoever asked if Ireland deploys their reserves, to my knowledge, they're only officially deployed at home one weekend a year per section or something along those lines. They are also used in aid of civil power (they patrolled around to stop cattle movements during the foot+mouth crisis for instance.) They're never deployed abroad. I'll have to ask one of my mates who is in the Reserves for more details..

Ireland's peacekeeping quota (10% of all forces) is currently fully committed.
A recruitment campaign such as the one they had a few years back is needed if Mr. O'Dea wishes to do more, which he most certainly does.
Peacekeepers do wonders for our prestige for some reason..

Ireland is acknowledged for having very skilled infantrymen.
Our Ranger Wing is among the best in the world, and currently hold the records for best long range and best helicopter snipers (both .50cal, in both cases our snipers had never used a .50cal before).

 

[riksavage]

The Irish set-up appears more akin to a para-military policing unit than fully-fledged army (no integrated all arms experience). They are very lightly armed (by European standards) thus ideally suited for peace keeping / policing actions. The need for an attack helicopter or main battle tank is redundant, plus the logistics chain to support such additions (training, maintenance, POL, technical support) is very costly and totally prohibitive for a nation with a very small defence budget.

 

[IrishHitman]

The Irish set-up appears more akin to a para-military policing unit than fully-fledged army (no integrated all arms experience). They are very lightly armed (by European standards) thus ideally suited for peace keeping / policing actions. The need for an attack helicopter or main battle tank is redundant, plus the logistics chain to support such additions (training, maintenance, POL, technical support) is very costly and totally prohibitive for a nation with a very small defence budget.

Ireland relies on diplomacy to solve its conflicts, so this is somewhat true.

However, it is a fully fledged army in terms of training and capabilities (limited though they may be), we do have artillery units and support units...

 

[ZotiRaki]

Ireland Infantry Structure

Anybody know what the distribution of 81mm mortars is within the Irish Army? I'd also be interested to know when they got the Morfire system, and whether they have an artillery fire control system in place.

 

[pindown]

irish un troops

I worked with the irish army in Lebanon, I always found them to be friendly and proffesional , I must admit that I always wondered why they were there
I am sure that they are buying the anti tank missiles for UN use as they have
no enemies

 

[2S1]

Anybody know what the distribution of 81mm mortars is within the Irish Army? I'd also be interested to know when they got the Morfire system, and whether they have an artillery fire control system in place.

Each IDF Light-Role Infantry Battalion has a Fire Support Company with a Mortar Platoon organic with 3 sections of 2x81mm tubes. MORFIRE is a natural choice FC system for these platoons.

 

[2S1]

I worked with the irish army in Lebanon, I always found them to be friendly and proffesional , I must admit that I always wondered why they were there
I am sure that they are buying the anti tank missiles for UN use as they have
no enemies

Exceptionally professional. The only reason Ireland doesn't join NATO is that the British are there.

 

[FluffyThoughts]

Exceptionally professional. The only reason Ireland doesn't join NATO is that the British are there.

Silly point. The Irish - of all colours - will fight for The Crown when required (and requested). The Irish Defence Forces are neutral, hence no NATO.

The citizens of the Republic can and do fight for The Crown. They might have a fair complaint against the "British Army", but they are more likely to support said force then an anti-democratic EU-monstrosity! :

 

[Onkel]

I worked with the irish army in Lebanon, ...

By the way: I heard, the Israely army was not completely satisfied with Javelin during the Lebanon Conflict, because the heatseeker needet often to much time to cool down, when an armourded vehicle appeared. That shall be, why some forces like our Bundeswehr prefere wireguided ATMs. Anybody heared about it?

 

[riksavage]

There has been an increasing amount of coverage in the UK and Southern Irish press recently about the growing number of Southern Irish citizens joining the UK military (see below articles).

The Irish, both North and South of the border have always had a strong and distinguished track-record fighting for the British Crown even after the South became a dedicated neutral country.

With the formal end of Operation Banner there appears to be less of a stigma associated with such a move coupled with the increased likelihood of serving on operational tours, instead of being restricted to peace keeping operations only.

I have no idea whether the Southern Irish Defence Force is suffering from a recruitment problem, or whether the Government would try and stop their citizens fighting for Britain, particularly when some of the recruits are ex-serving Southern Irish Soldiers who have left after two-three years and then joined the Brit's.

As Ireland is not a member of the Commonwealth, could you see the Government banning such a practice in the future? South Africa after all tried to introduce a mercenary ban preventing its citizens fighting for foreign armies / PMC's (even though the UK Government negotiated a waver).

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4724617.ece

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...c-troops-leave-Northern-Ireland.html?ITO=1490

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0905/afghan.html

 

[Onkel]

Found what I was asking for

It´s about the disantvantages of Spike and Javelin (unfortunately in german, I try to tranlate): http://www.europaeische-sicherheit.de/Ausgaben/2007/2007_07/03_Michael/2007,07,03.html

(about spike)
From the moment of the targets detection until the shot 25 seconds pass by, because the heatseeker has to be cooled down. A lot of time in duell situations. Furthermore it´s difficult to shoot on cool targets, because the seeker may not find them.

(about javelin)
The same for javelin. From Detection to shooting up to 30 seconds may pass by. The US Forces used it in the struggle for Baghdad. A lot of targets couldn´t be found by the heatseeker, so that targets could get away. A lot too much warheads didn´t work. As a result US forces preferred wireguided TOW 2.

Another point may be, that a wireguided system is not as easy to be interfered, as one using an autonomous heatseeker.

 

[Waylander]

But while Javelin is helpless when the seeker doesn't automatically finds a target Spike can still be guided by a man in the loop giving it IMHO a good advantage over Javelin.
Not to talk of Javelin in the end being more vulnerable to passive protection systems and having less range.

 

[Onkel]

Right you are, Spike can also be used wireguided.

 

[aalusna]

Israeli Army ATGM

By the way: I heard, the Israely army was not completely satisfied with Javelin during the Lebanon Conflict, because the heatseeker needet often to much time to cool down, when an armourded vehicle appeared. That shall be, why some forces like our Bundeswehr prefere wireguided ATMs. Anybody heared about it?

Israeli Army has the Rafael Spike ATGM not the Javelin. Gotta support those local industries.

 

[aalusna]

IDF uses the Spike ATGM (made by Rafael). Gotta support those local industries (with US taxpayer $).