ADF recruitment crisis.

[McTaff]

Do you honestly think i have a shot at getting in as a BM or they will simply look at the fact that i didnt get accepted as officer entry so thats it?

My thinking with this is that if i was suitable for officer then why not general entry.

Something I would like to add:

Firstly, if you want to have a second bite of the cherry and go Direct Entry Seaman Officer, and you haven't sat a Seaman Officer board then you have a reasonable run-up, provided you meet the minimum marks for Direct Entry - check that out.

You are already trying your best to get in as such and all you have to tell them is that you really want to be a Seaman Officer and although you got disappointing academic results, you are going to work really hard at this. They'll probably ask you why you think you can do it seeing as you have been knocked back as not having the school marks. You need to defend that with appropriate proof of achievement elsewhere, or present an eloquent statement to convince them that you are prepared to work hard at this.

During the board, you need to be friendly, but show a good grasp of leadership. You need to be able to public speak at the drop of a hat, make an effort to take charge of anything that is going on (without being a douche) and to remain friendly, polite and smiling the whole time.

--

As for BM, you've got an easy entry there. Don't worry about being knocked back because you tried to be an officer and didn't make it. They won't draw a big fat red line through your application because you didn't make it in one area, they will be happy to find you a place elsewhere if you're still keen to get in. They'll still be rigorous about your application as always (you've given them some ammo), but they are happy to place you where they see you contributing.

 

[Noob007]

Worries

I have some questions about ADFA and getting in.
I want to get into ADFA to become an officer in the air force and its my first choice of career but im worried that i dont get the marks from school.

If i don't get the marks then can i do some sort of UAI boosting scheme? or is there bridging courses you can do, or is it possible to do the HSC again in tafe and apply the next year? If i do the GAP year does that give me a better chance of getting in? Can i do the GAP year and then apply for ADFA when im finished?

Sorry theres so many questions, theyre all bugging me atm.
It probably sounds like i just want to be in ADFA for a ride but ive actually wanted to get in for ages, but lately things have just gone wrong and im not getting the best marks in school.

So what other ways can i get into ADFA if i dont get the right marks?
All suggestions/answers very greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Mark .B.

 

[McTaff]

I have some questions about ADFA and getting in.
I want to get into ADFA to become an officer in the air force and its my first choice of career but im worried that i dont get the marks from school.

If i don't get the marks then can i do some sort of UAI boosting scheme? or is there bridging courses you can do, or is it possible to do the HSC again in tafe and apply the next year? If i do the GAP year does that give me a better chance of getting in? Can i do the GAP year and then apply for ADFA when im finished?

Sorry theres so many questions, theyre all bugging me atm.
It probably sounds like i just want to be in ADFA for a ride but ive actually wanted to get in for ages, but lately things have just gone wrong and im not getting the best marks in school.

So what other ways can i get into ADFA if i dont get the right marks?
All suggestions/answers very greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Mark .B.

You need the marks. I suggest you knuckle down and boost your UAI with whatever means there are available to you through TAFE etc. There are no other ways of scoring points that I know of off the top of my head.

I'd also suggest joining a sporting team where you can be captain or vice captain, etc, as this is looked favourably upon when you do your boards.

If you're looking to be a pilot or an ACO then there are even more things you need to do, but recruiting should fill you in on all those details.

 

[aussie89]

Something I would like to add:

Firstly, if you want to have a second bite of the cherry and go Direct Entry Seaman Officer, and you haven't sat a Seaman Officer board then you have a reasonable run-up, provided you meet the minimum marks for Direct Entry - check that out.

You are already trying your best to get in as such and all you have to tell them is that you really want to be a Seaman Officer and although you got disappointing academic results, you are going to work really hard at this. They'll probably ask you why you think you can do it seeing as you have been knocked back as not having the school marks. You need to defend that with appropriate proof of achievement elsewhere, or present an eloquent statement to convince them that you are prepared to work hard at this.

During the board, you need to be friendly, but show a good grasp of leadership. You need to be able to public speak at the drop of a hat, make an effort to take charge of anything that is going on (without being a douche) and to remain friendly, polite and smiling the whole time.

--

As for BM, you've got an easy entry there. Don't worry about being knocked back because you tried to be an officer and didn't make it. They won't draw a big fat red line through your application because you didn't make it in one area, they will be happy to find you a place elsewhere if you're still keen to get in. They'll still be rigorous about your application as always (you've given them some ammo), but they are happy to place you where they see you contributing.

Thanks heaps for the quick reply. Sorry about all the questions this is my last one. I just found out that i am medically unsuitable for seaman officer now as my eyes have deteriorated so now BM is the only area i am interested in.

By giving them ammo what sort of questions do you think they are going to ask me? Also do you think the psych will automatically have negativity in there mind regarding my application as the psych is what i am most worried about. Are they going to ask me why i want to leave uni after half a year to get into the ADF

My reason for this is i want a more hands on learing environment in which to gain qualifications. Do you think this is a resonable answer to this question?

Thanks again for the help

 

[smirkinov]

Care to cast some wisdom my way McTaff?

I'm still training on my physical endurance and strength, but am keen to know what to aim for....

My main interest is the distance running test times during bootcamp. I have a friend that was in RAE about 20 years ago, he mentioned a 2.5km run, and I'm aiming for around the 9 min mark, which I understand is an A grade time. Please confirm, and let me know the cutoff time also (I think it's about 10min 40sec or so).

Some info on the cutoff and A grade times/reps for any other physical tests (pushups, chinups, situps etc) during recruit training would also be appreciated.

I'm looking at enlisting around september this year, hoping to reach recruit training around december, and keen to do anything in the interim to ensure I qualify as a technician geomatic. I would be grateful for any advice you have to offer.

 

[McTaff]

I just found out that i am medically unsuitable for seaman officer now as my eyes have deteriorated so now BM is the only area i am interested in.

By giving them ammo what sort of questions do you think they are going to ask me? Also do you think the psych will automatically have negativity in there mind regarding my application as the psych is what i am most worried about. Are they going to ask me why i want to leave uni after half a year to get into the ADF

My reason for this is i want a more hands on learing environment in which to gain qualifications. Do you think this is a resonable answer to this question?

Thanks again for the help

That is a fair answer, and that is the thing they will do.

Remember they are not trying to fail you, they are seeing if you get show some initiative, think carefully about what you say and present yourself as an intelligent and reasonable person.

Think about all the things that could be construed as 'failures' in any way, and also things that you have done in the past you not longer do (team sports, for example, or volunteer work - they'll want to know why you give that sort of thing up). Have a few answers prepared on each of those subjects and above all don't spin bullsh!t as they can smell it like sharks smell blood in the water.

 

[McTaff]

I'm still training on my physical endurance and strength, but am keen to know what to aim for....

My main interest is the distance running test times during bootcamp. I have a friend that was in RAE about 20 years ago, he mentioned a 2.5km run, and I'm aiming for around the 9 min mark, which I understand is an A grade time. Please confirm, and let me know the cutoff time also (I think it's about 10min 40sec or so).

Some info on the cutoff and A grade times/reps for any other physical tests (pushups, chinups, situps etc) during recruit training would also be appreciated.

I'm looking at enlisting around september this year, hoping to reach recruit training around december, and keen to do anything in the interim to ensure I qualify as a technician geomatic. I would be grateful for any advice you have to offer.

First of all, as an aside: if ATA interests you and you have the aptitude, I would give that a thought too - HMAS Albatross would like to swell the ranks of aircraft maintainers and that is a great job.

Secondly, regarding fitness it is better to be in good shape all round. If you are looking for some targets, I have posted some up previously in this thread somewhere I am sure.

The fitness test is 2.4km run in under 13 minutes if I recall correctly. However you're going to be run ragged at basic training and you want to be able to smash that by minutes.

I have a new litmus test:
Ensure you can bash out a quick 35 pushups straight up and at least 50 situps, and then go for a good 9km run - doing the first 2.4km in under twelve minutes. As long as you can complete the whole 9km without stopping after doing all that you'll have no trouble at basic.

Strength training is helpful but is not a requirement. You'll be pushed for endurance mostly.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Thx for the info OF.
I've always wanted to be a Sniper, so im guessing thats in the recon platoon. I've been trying to find info on what the fittness requirements are to become a sniper, i've spoken to Brit, US and Dutch snipers but all there requirements are different to each other so im still not sure, also would i benefit if i joined a shooting club to become a good shot ?

Any help or tips on this would be great
thx

ReconAus

Nope join the ARA as a riflemen. I've never heard of a reserve battalion that actually has a Sniper cell, (a sub-unit of the recon platoon, as you correctly identified) so Regs is the only way to go.

Snipers within the Australian (and most other) Army work in pairs with an observer. Each battalion that actually has a Sniper cell operates (at full strength) 4x sniper pairs with a sergeant in charge.

At best you've got a total of 9 spots out of a battalion of 600 to be selected in.

Each battalion seems to have a different method for selecting snipers and observers, but basically you will need to become ECN 343 qualified (basic rifleman) and serve a couple of years in your rifle company.

Then if good enough and you get on well enough with your boss and if the unit actually runs sniper courses on a reasonably regular basis, you may get the chance to do the observers course.

Some battalions (most in my experience) require persons to be recon qualified first. Therefore the process has an additional hurdle or 2. You need to get on the recon course first, then be selected to serve in the recon platoon. Then perhaps you will get the chance to undertake the observers course.

But mixed in amongst these courses and attachments to support units is postings back and forth amongst the rifle companies. It is unlikely that you would get a posting to a recon platoon, then do the observer course and then get posted to a Sniper cell, without returning to a rifle company in between.

On top of this, after 3 years, with a posting to the recon platoon successfully completed, you would most likely be selected to undertake your subject courses for promotion to Lance Corporal (subject 1) and Corporal (subject 2).

If you have qualified as an observer you will then get the chance to undergo the sniper course and become qualified as a "number 1". Bear in mind again that the majority of your job is information gathering for your battalion CO. Actually shooting people makes up a VERY minor part of the Australian Army sniper's role and I doubt an ARA sniper has fired a shot in anger in the traditional "sniper" role since Vietnam (outside of 4RAR and they don't count in my opinion).

As you can see, it's going to take a substantial committment, beyond your initial ROSO to achieve this. Don't get disenheartened, just bear in mind it might take a while to achieve this.

It's well worth it though. You get to carry flash gats, you get to work in a very small, specialised unit and have a qualification that VERY few persons can boast of.

 

[Waylander]

And remember that besides from movies being a sniper can be a very long, boring and ugly job.

Just imagine to wait in the same position for 2 days and nothing happens. Or to to an approach to your firing positions which takes 3 hours for 100m.
Not to talk of the job making it necessitate to literally shi* were you are lying...

 

[icelord]

They will question if you are just having a "second stab" at getting to Seaman Officer through the side door. They will accuse you of not being committed to the job you are applying for.

They also may throw either (a) you are too scared of academic work and are setting yourself a ceiling, or (b) that you won't finish anything you start.

What?!?
I hope they don't throw that at me when i get to OSB.
I was in the same boat as you aus,i got to seletion board but "narrowly" missed out, so i went BM to do Navigators Yeoman later on, giving me the edge to be Officer Navigation.
If your eyes are "detioriating" as you say,BM may not be a great choice. I wear glasses for long distance, and live fires on steyr are not easy when your adjusting your eyes to cope. A few MEOs(marine engineer officers) are former MTs, as well as Comms officers are former CIS. a few Commanders here and in fleet i've found were once Bosuns, so going through the ranks is no new thing. My plan, if it works is to do OSB in 2 to 3 years internally, and doing a degree if time permits or at least starting while at sea, great adavantage in ADF is i don't pay for it depending on what i choose.

If you do become a dibby, be prepared to cop a lot of flak from your oppos because you want to becoming an officer, its a bosun thing to fear a mate outranking you...

good luck any more questions, mctaff seems more happy to help, otherwise Pm me

Icelord

 

[McTaff]

What?!?
I hope they don't throw that at me when i get to OSB.
I was in the same boat as you aus,i got to seletion board but "narrowly" missed out, so i went BM to do Navigators Yeoman later on, giving me the edge to be Officer Navigation.

I doubt they will - you've had two years on the job. They may say you didn't get through last time, and ask you why you think you didn't get through. They want to see that you've matured/learned/got experience, etc... and are going to use that as a proving point.

Remember mate, the OSB is primarily a test: they will put you out of your comfort zone as much as they can, keep you off balance and try to trip you up here and there, just to see how you cope.

If you can execute a smooth spin session you'll have them eating out of your hand. I have done 4 seperate OSB's for different things (gotta catch 'em all!), and they all operate the same way.

My plan, if it works is to do OSB in 2 to 3 years internally, and doing a degree if time permits or at least starting while at sea, great adavantage in ADF is i don't pay for it depending on what i choose.

Degrees and experience as an enlisted rank BM are a huge plus. They know you know how it works, and they want to give you the step up because it keeps you in the Navy (as retention is a bit of an issue).

Icelord is in the home of enlisted sailors - use him and abuse him. (Hey Icelord, if I didn't pass the buck, what kinda officer would I be? ) In particular get the good gen on what is going on in initial training - make sure you're all set with the adjustment before it happens. Proactive, not reactive.

 

[aussie89]

Hey all just got a quick question

had my assesment day a few weeks ago and got a letter of intent but apparently i cant get a letter of offer until my medical clears in the system or something. Does anyone know how long this takes. I have passed my pfa but do not have any paperwork for my blood tests or anything and my enlistment coordinator isnt really much help

any help/advice to let me know what is going on would be great

thanks in advance

 

[McTaff]

Hey all just got a quick question

had my assesment day a few weeks ago and got a letter of intent but apparently i cant get a letter of offer until my medical clears in the system or something. Does anyone know how long this takes. I have passed my pfa but do not have any paperwork for my blood tests or anything and my enlistment coordinator isnt really much help

any help/advice to let me know what is going on would be great

thanks in advance

Nope, you just need to call them periodically and chase it. Nothing much more you can do except keep making sure there is nothing they are missing.

 

[Beagle]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23867866-31477,00.html

Slightly off the last topic but in line with the thread title, stories like this can only help. I think giving a little bit of insight into the roles of late has been a big help to numbers of the last year.

 

[McTaff]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23867866-31477,00.html

Slightly off the last topic but in line with the thread title, stories like this can only help. I think giving a little bit of insight into the roles of late has been a big help to numbers of the last year.

Retention is an issue. How big of an issue? No-one really lets on, but suffice to say it isn't a good look when stories like this come out.

I'd recommend sub service to anyone - it's a fantastic time. Unless you have an phobia or abject fear of being underwater, then I say do it. Great pay, not much in the way of seasickness and you are looked after.

 

[The Infantryman]

Hey all just got a quick question

had my assesment day a few weeks ago and got a letter of intent but apparently i cant get a letter of offer until my medical clears in the system or something. Does anyone know how long this takes. I have passed my pfa but do not have any paperwork for my blood tests or anything and my enlistment coordinator isnt really much help

any help/advice to let me know what is going on would be great

thanks in advance

Reserve depots are in a way being used as recruiting centres & many are manned Monday to Friday by reg cadre staff. Visit your local reserve depot & ask the staff there to help. Where are you located?

The retention problem our unit faces is members transferring to the regs. If the unit has a good reputation recruiting is made easier. It also comes down to how the recruiters sell the ADF. If the soldiers are seen to be working together as a team, show great cameraderie & show professionalism at all times 90% of the recruiters' job is done.

Regular open days, especially ones with an obstacle course & competition for potential recruits with prizes are highly successful. The units need to shoulder more burden when recruiting, not just leave it up to the recruiters.

 

[Stryker001]

Adf

Its has been deleted.

 

[Waylander]

Too many cops like too many police officers in the army reserve?
And they are especially unreliable and untrustworthy?
Or do I get it totally wrong? :unknown

 

[gf0012-aust]

A recently retired Australian Army Officer told me that there are too many cops in the Army Reserves a lot of them officers too. Unreliable in combat and untrustworthy, it is proven by how many were recruited into the direct entry Special Forces program at its inception. Better off joining in the Regular Army, if you want to join Defense.

There is no real recruiting crisis Australia can call up enough people pretty quickly during the threat of invasion, ANZUS US logistic and weapons. No drama at all.

What a load of rot. I suggest that you edit your comment in the next 12 hrs before it's deleted.

As someone who has to deal with these people as part of my day to day work I'd suggest that your contact has little actional functional exposure to this group - and esp the Specforces element - and in particular the comments re spec entry.

He is obviously clueless as to how many ex police are involved at the PMC level and who are in hot space at present.

My own exp with the ADF recruitment was around the frailty of the recruitment vendor. BTW in a prev life I was State Manager for ADF Recruitment at the transition stage of its development. As a another point, the "special recruitment" can be evidenced by the internal pubs that appear every 2 months or so.... the pref is not determined by prev occupational exp - people "get up" because they demonstrate competency across various vectors. Being an ex policeman has nothing to do with it.

 

[King Comm]

The new chief of the army just assumed command, he said stuff about improve retention and increase recruitment, so I assume a pay rise is coming our way.

Regarding to the recruitment crisis, I believe DFR is least partially responsible for it, from what I have seen, only around 1 in 10 applicants gets through the selection process, far lower than when the army did its own recruiting.