Balance of Power
- Thread starter Merlöwe
- Start date
I'm sorry I live in Shanghai where I don't read the papers.
What "recent involvement in Africa" by China?
IrishHitman
New Member
Increased peacekeeping. The EU has done the same recently.
Chinese troops are in Sudan, Liberia, Ethiopa/Eritrea, DR of Congo, and has military observers in the Western Sahara.
It's a display of power....
Here's a link for the Darfur peacekeeping force:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200509/09/eng20050909_207452.html
And even if you did read the papers, they're heavily censored anyway.
It wouldn't do much good other than reinforce anti-democratic values.
Irish increased peacekeeping activities are not a display of military power. On the complete contrary, they're a display of international cooperation and willingness to help resolve problems. From your very own article:
And to be honest the condescending attitude in the end of your post is definetly misplaced. Chinese newspapers may be censored (to a point) but that does mean that you should consider anyone from China to not know what's going on. In this case a senior member that has been here much longer.
Doesn't look like a display of force to me.
And to be honest the condescending attitude in the end of your post is definetly misplaced. Chinese newspapers may be censored (to a point) but that does mean that you should consider anyone from China to not know what's going on. In this case a senior member that has been here much longer.
Oil rich Sudan buys weapons from everyone including Russia. But everyone in the world wants to attack ONLY China for doing it.
China wants to do some good and perform peacekeeping roles in Africa. But, this even this makes some people unhappy.
I applaud China's patience in dealing with these open aggression and discriminations.
China wants to do some good and perform peacekeeping roles in Africa. But, this even this makes some people unhappy.
I applaud China's patience in dealing with these open aggression and discriminations.
IrishHitman
New Member
1.
Peacekeeping is interference in the affairs of another state, at the request of said state or otherwise. Africa is not within China's sphere of influence, it's more an EU area of interest. Furthermore, I said power, not military power. Power manifests itself in more ways than one.
The fact that the Chinese Government are even interested in peacekeeping in Africa is suspect. China is not a democratic country, has no human rights charter to speak of, and the CCP generally stands for the opposite of what we Westerners would refer to as "free society".
Taking that into account, why would the CCP send troops to defend values it doesn't believe in? Non Sequitur. I don't think they are doing it out of the good of their heart, but that's more political than military, i.e. not for here.
2.
I was not trying to be condescending, I apologise if it looked that way. I was pointing out the fact that the Chinese media is heavily censored, and my comment was based on the fact he mentioned newspapers.
Chinese newspapers are not a reasonably unbiased source of information.
If there are foreign newspapers in Shanghai, then that's an entirely different story.
Interesting that China - or at least, a Chinese firm controlled by people highly placed in the PLA and with close links to the CCP elite - recently attempted to sell a shipload of arms to Robert Mugabe's government. This at a time when Mugabe had just lost an election, when thugs associated with his party and military were known to be violating human rights on a frequent basis .... and when Zimbabwe has little in the way of cash available to pay for such purchases.
In such a situation, it is a little harder to believe that whoever authorised the sale was paying due heed to human rights or democratic values. It also makes it easier to suspect that the return for such a sale had more to do with politics, political alignment and a foothold on another continent. It's worth considering the situation WRT world food production at the moment, and the degree to which a proportion of land is considerably below its production potential due to no greater factor than a lack of landholder security.
Pardon if this sounds like a comment that belongs elsewhere than this forum, but I suggest that defence issues need to take into account that which must be defended.
Respectfully........ Peter
They're doing their best to try to demonstrate that they're a normal country interested in international cooperation rather then conflict. In that regard I don't see any way how Chinese engineer forces supporting a EU mission in Sudan can be a display of Chinese power. If anything it's a display of Chinese humility. They're, on a most basic level, doing it to score brownie points with the West.
Cooch please do consider that this shipload is part of a regular arms trade, and is so insignificantly minor in terms of what's being delivered (AK ammo, grenades etc.) that it could hardly be considered meddling in African affairs. In that regard most western countries have done their share of weapon dealing. Much more unpleasant is the sale of chinese aircraft to Sudan.
IrishHitman
New Member
Russia are just as bad to be honest, although they have a recognisably democratic system in place at least.
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Dude, it is on this very same forum!!
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7774
Of course, cannot be otherwise verified.
Funny how democracy is prescribed to everyone as if democracy makes everyone happy, healthy and wealthy.
Out of respect, I shall refrain from mentioning which so-called democratic countries are the absolute pits.
Yet, if a country with an authoritarian system is doing well, most of its citizens happy, healthy, many middle-class etc... westerners will still insist it is wrong and again, prescribes democracy. As if democracy is some kind of must-have miracle cure-all pills.
Out of respect, I shall refrain from mentioning which so-called democratic countries are the absolute pits.
Yet, if a country with an authoritarian system is doing well, most of its citizens happy, healthy, many middle-class etc... westerners will still insist it is wrong and again, prescribes democracy. As if democracy is some kind of must-have miracle cure-all pills.
IrishHitman
New Member
I see you have the same misconception I've encountered too many times before.
Democracy has little to do with prosperity.
It's about the concept that all people are legally equal, should have equal opportunities, rights and say in politics.
Which countries that are undemocratic do not have, regardless of how well off they are.
The thread you linked to talks about tanks. Not aircraft. The only major recent aircraft purchase I can think of is the 12 MiG's on a 2001 contract. This is old news and I really don't see your point in making that statement. Russia came under considerable international fire in iirc 2004 for delivering those fighter jets.
I don't think you have the fact straight, the contract was signed long before the election. When they shipped the weapons, there was no international arms embargo on Zimbabwe, what else could a company do, except following contracts? Obviously the delivery of weapons at that time would complicate the situation, but the only country that can and ARE cropping up Mugabe's government is South Africa not China. There is actually a NTY editorial about it, it is called The Democratic Recession.
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My mistake.
Your misconceptions run deep too.
What I said was exactly to address yours.
Sometimes, not going hungry, having a certain measure of security, is a lot more important than political ideals.
IrishHitman
New Member
And it's attitudes like the one you just stated that allow extremists into power.