The race is on- in Switzerland

[kato]

Originally, an upgrade for the existing F/A-18 for A2G and Recon was planned for 2009-2015 during their MLU, but that's been cancelled for lack of money.

http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/schweiz/ruestungsprogramm_2008_917_millionen_franken_1.674857.html

 

[contedicavour]

Originally, an upgrade for the existing F/A-18 for A2G and Recon was planned for 2009-2015 during their MLU, but that's been cancelled for lack of money.

http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/schweiz/ruestungsprogramm_2008_917_millionen_franken_1.674857.html

Ah-ha okay this changes everything. I was sure the F18s were going to be updated with air to ground capabilities ...
Eurofighter consortium is proposing Typhoons with A2G capabilities (though secondary to air to air capability).

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

...

They are planning procurement of about 30 fighters for 1.4 billion € which includes additional PC-21s as well. So not too much money here... Officials say that they are looking for the best possible solution regarding that amount of money, so I guess it's up to the manufacturers what exactly is included in the offered package.
Could be that the Gripen will be a strong contender here finally given the financial restrictions...

Johan Landin, Campaign Director Denmark at Gripen International, has guaranteed a life cycle cost of 22 billion DKK (3 bn EUR) for 48 Gripen NG to Denmark. Package include acquisition of aircraft, training of pilots, simulators and the cost of running the jets for 20 years.

http://ing.dk/artikel/84912 (in Danish)

A large and sophisticated package compared to the Swiss budget perhaps. Is the 1.4 bn EUR figure acquisition only?

 

[rattmuff]

Boeing threw in the towel.
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ws-super-hornet-from-swiss-contract-race.html

They say the F/A-18E/F Block II Super Hornet didn't "fit". To much difference between the Super Hornet and the Swiss AF requirements.

That makes the hunt for a contract all European.

 

[contedicavour]

Boeing threw in the towel.
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ws-super-hornet-from-swiss-contract-race.html

They say the F/A-18E/F Block II Super Hornet didn't "fit". To much difference between the Super Hornet and the Swiss AF requirements.

That makes the hunt for a contract all European.

Very interesting development... though I don't exactly understand why they withdrew, since in terms of costs, dimensions, equipment, the F18E/F had a chance against Typhoon and Rafale. Besides, pushing for a standardization of the Swiss Air Force was quite a strong argument (maintenance and saving costs would have been lower).
Now I'd say it will either go to the cheapest solution (Gripen) or the highest spec + political best choice Typhoon (with 3 out of 4 neighbours operating it and 2 of them building it...).

cheers

 

[superhornet]

first , we can kick Rafale out the race. EF-2000 is too much for Switzerland, double engines, excellent air-air and air-ground ablities. Switzerland is an inland mountainous country. So it doesn't need long-range attack abilities. moreover, Switzerland has no enemy country. it owns a very safe environment.

we can see that F-18E/F is a navy jetfighter, and Switzerland has no record of using a navy aircraft.

i believe Saab seek the biggest chance to win the competition.

 

[kato]

we can see that F-18E/F is a navy jetfighter, and Switzerland has no record of using a navy aircraft.

Switzerland currently operates F/A-18C/D (since '96), and has used other jets with naval application, such as Vampires/Venoms, primarily for their STOL capabilities.

 

[superhornet]

latest news: Boeing quit the contest becase it believe F-18E/F is not suited fof Swiss Air Force. moreover, Boeing consider that superhornet is too advanced to work along with SAF. Boeing's action is quite reasonable cause obviously Swiss doesn't need a super aircraft. Superhornet is too much for Swiss. probably EF-2000 or JAS-39 will win the contract. forget rafale, not one like it much..

 

[Skyman]

latest news: Boeing quit the contest becase it believe F-18E/F is not suited fof Swiss Air Force. moreover, Boeing consider that superhornet is too advanced to work along with SAF.

I'm a bit curious with Boeing's reasons. The first reason is understandable but the second reason, Super Hornet is 'too advanced'???? If you considers yourself 'too advanced' in Swiss competition, what about Typhoon? It's very advanced fighter too. And if Boeing's reason on 'too advanced' is actually the case, Typhoon should go also.

But obviously, The Typhoon is still in.

 

[swerve]

I'm a bit curious with Boeing's reasons. The first reason is understandable but the second reason, Super Hornet is 'too advanced'???? If you considers yourself 'too advanced' in Swiss competition, what about Typhoon? It's very advanced fighter too. And if Boeing's reason on 'too advanced' is actually the case, Typhoon should go also.

But obviously, The Typhoon is still in.

That's a decision for Eurofighter GMBH. It doesn't have to copy Boeing. Same for Dassault.

 

[Sintra]

latest news: Boeing quit the contest becase it believe F-18E/F is not suited fof Swiss Air Force. moreover, Boeing consider that superhornet is too advanced to work along with SAF. Boeing's action is quite reasonable cause obviously Swiss doesn't need a super aircraft. Superhornet is too much for Swiss. probably EF-2000 or JAS-39 will win the contract. forget rafale, not one like it much..

Boeing would sell the Super Hornet to Papua-Nova-Guiné if the PNG MOD(!) had the requirements and the cash to pay for it.
The reasons why Boeing droped out have nothing to do with the SH being "too advanced" for the Swiss competition and everything to do with some requirement that the "Schweizer Luftwaffe" imposed that the "super Bug" couldn´t comply (size maybe), or a set of requirements that clearly favoured one of the contestants (other than the SH).
I may be completely wrong on this one, but the general feeling that i get his that the Air-to-Air scenario his the predominant driver for the requirements, this coupled with size (think caves), landing/take off performance at a premium, high rate of climb as a cherised bonus, small budget and range/payload not being an issue, all of this didn´t leave much room for a Super Hornet victory.

Cheers

 

[King_Typhoon]

i fink gripen will won this race because lightweight fighter with light strike capacity good for switzeland country "needed" capacity. also resonable price for buget money and cost effective.

eurofighter seem too powerfully for that country required, thought it seem good worth that get it because it proven second to f-22 rapier, also it capacity maneveour with swing roles save to cost effectives.
good thing about eurofighter typhoon offer is save money training and can training with neigbours austira and italy and germany

i go bet gripen won this race!

f-5 lightweight replace by gripen lightweight

 

[Aussie Digger]

first , we can kick Rafale out the race. EF-2000 is too much for Switzerland, double engines, excellent air-air and air-ground ablities. Switzerland is an inland mountainous country. So it doesn't need long-range attack abilities. moreover, Switzerland has no enemy country. it owns a very safe environment.

we can see that F-18E/F is a navy jetfighter, and Switzerland has no record of using a navy aircraft.

i believe Saab seek the biggest chance to win the competition.

I'm pretty sure the F/A-18C/D Hornet is a "navy jetfighter" and Switzerland already operates 33x of them...

Switzerland is intent on replacing the F-5 fighter.

It doesn't maintain an "air to ground" capability of any kind and uses it's aircraft in intercept and "air defence" (and recon) taskings only.

The Gripen will win this, because it's the closest aircraft to the F.A-18C/D Hornet that can actually be purchased NOW.

If "new" Hornets could be built, I'm sure they'd be snapped up...

Super Hornets are too expensive (and capable) for what Switzerland is looking for. I am CERTAIN, Rafale and Typhoon will be too.

 

[kato]

Or rather: Switzerland cut their primary A2G capabilities about 30 years ago. When they bought the F-5.

The competition is interesting in the following regard:
- Gripen: cheapest
- Rafale: only one with combat record (i count dropping bombs in Afghanistan)
- Eurofighter: best A2A capability
- Super Hornet: limited commonality with existing fleet

A few notes maybe:
The Swiss Military has increased participation in joint maneuvers and training with NATO in the past few years, in particular Germany. Not just limited to some air combat routine (which has been going on for decades), but to the point that Switzerland took part in NATO SAM training on Crete last year. Germany and Switzerland also cooperate extensively in both air and battlefield surveillance systems, i.e. C4I, ground-based air surveillance and UAVs.

Unless SAAB can showcase functional Link-16 (which it doesn't have so far, though its on the list of things to be integrated), zero chance for the Gripen.
As for immediate delivery, Eurofighter is just as available through a similar "castling" as was done for Austria.

 

[zeven]

Or rather: Switzerland cut their primary A2G capabilities about 30 years ago. When they bought the F-5.

The competition is interesting in the following regard:
- Gripen: cheapest
- Rafale: only one with combat record (i count dropping bombs in Afghanistan)
- Eurofighter: best A2A capability
- Super Hornet: limited commonality with existing fleet

A few notes maybe:
The Swiss Military has increased participation in joint maneuvers and training with NATO in the past few years, in particular Germany. Not just limited to some air combat routine (which has been going on for decades), but to the point that Switzerland took part in NATO SAM training on Crete last year. Germany and Switzerland also cooperate extensively in both air and battlefield surveillance systems, i.e. C4I, ground-based air surveillance and UAVs.

Unless SAAB can showcase functional Link-16 (which it doesn't have so far, though its on the list of things to be integrated), zero chance for the Gripen.
As for immediate delivery, Eurofighter is just as available through a similar "castling" as was done for Austria.

Ehm Gripen already has a functional Link 16. how do you think hungary and the chezchs can operate in Nato?

second, can´t see why swiss, need link 16 they aint a member of nato. if i were them TIDLS would be the ultimate solution.

 

[kato]

Ehm Gripen already has a functional Link 16. how do you think hungary and the chezchs can operate in Nato?

Not with Link-16 anyway. Link-16 is to be integrated with Gripen N, and will be available as an option to Gripen C/D.
According to Saab, Link-16 is "functional" in the avionics simulator since last June, and is planned to be certified on Gripen "in 2008".
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/MediaRelations/News/2007/070611_datalink.htm

second, can´t see why swiss, need link 16 they aint a member of nato. if i were them TIDLS would be the ultimate solution.

Guess just how they already interact with German (and other NATO) Airforce systems.

 

[barra]

The competition is interesting in the following regard:
- Gripen: cheapest
- Rafale: only one with combat record (i count dropping bombs in Afghanistan)
- Eurofighter: best A2A capability
- Super Hornet: limited commonality with existing fleet

Super Hornet also has a combat record by participating in the last Gulf unpleasantness and Afghanistan.

 

[SlyDog]

kato: Öhhm. I´m surprised. I believed that Link16 already were implemented..as standard

Well...

"In addition to the Swedish data link, Link 16 is now an option in Gripens onboard datalink capabilities. This further enhances Gripen’s interoperability and gives users an even wider choice of networked systems to meet their national and international needs."

"Currently running in Gripen’s avionics simulator, full Link 16 certification is planned for 2008. Implementation of the new datalink will take advantage of the SEK1 billion (USD139 million) Version 19 systems upgrade that was announced in 2006."

LINK

So functional Link16 should be available as an option.

 

[zeven]

Not with Link-16 anyway. Link-16 is to be integrated with Gripen N, and will be available as an option to Gripen C/D.
According to Saab, Link-16 is "functional" in the avionics simulator since last June, and is planned to be certified on Gripen "in 2008".
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/MediaRelations/News/2007/070611_datalink.htm

Guess just how they already interact with German (and other NATO) Airforce systems.

you´re right, my fault.

didnt know they had a close cooparation with germany. guess you learn something new every day

 

[kato]

As part of the cooperation, both airforces can (in joint operations) access each other's sensor data. A common datalink (Link 16) is essential for that of course.

One example from last year was an exercise in which encrypted Link 16 was shown off with live camera sensor data from a Swiss drone fed into a data analysis center in Germany via a complicated indirect path including the datalink of two Patriot systems, and direct commercial landlines.