IRIAF Tomcat

[eaf-f16]

Didnt Iran sell some F-14s to the Soviets once?

IIRC, the Soviets allegedly obtained 2 examples and some Phoenix missiles.

 

[contedicavour]

Salty, I work for here in Saudi (BAE Systems - RSAF, there ain't much difference out here!). F-15S even with the conformals, it will take down anything Iran throws up.

The biggest threat to RSAF - the ex-East German mercenaries flying Yemen's Mig-29s. They give the Saudi Eagle Drivers the run around down at Khamis.

We put AMRAAMS and 9Ms on all our Eagles.

Don't get me wrong, the Eagle S can carry ground ordnance, but until JDAM comes, it's the 250lb snake.

Putting a Maverick or a Paveway is something done for effect. It looks great at air shows.

Very interesting the Yemeni MIG29 story - especially as IRIAF does have some MIG29s... AIM9M against R73 is still probably skewed towards the R73 with its higher range and manouevrability, although AIM120 (B or C ?) > R77.

cheers

 

[up81]

This website won't allow me to post a link but search on google for :
TARGET: SADDAM'S REACTOR
It's a very good reading on IRIAF F-14's. and it's combat history. Don't underestimate the Cats!

 

[Feanor]

The Iranian MiG's are supposedly Fulcrum A that rely primarily on GCI. I don't know that I would even consider them fighters. They're effective short range interceptors at best. Outdated garbage at worst.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

IIRC, the Soviets allegedly obtained 2 examples and some Phoenix missiles.

Yes the Russians did obtain F-14's and Phoenix's they contributed a lot to the SU 27 ( and all the models that came after) design, as well as long interception missiles. Also to the real question IRIAF, and the F-14 and there use in the war here is a link...
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0077.shtml


The following are quotes from the article. There is much more in the article itself.

By "have," I assume you mean countries that operate the F-14, as opposed to nations like the Soviet Union that may have "acquired" a handful of them over the years. The users of this aircraft are listed in our entry on the Grumman F-14 Tomcat which indicates that only the US and Iran purchased the design.

Having received permission from the US government, Iran decided to purchase the F-14 Tomcat over a competing F-15 Eagle offer. An intial order for 30 F-14s was signed in January 1974, and this number was later increased to 80. The first of these aircraft arrived in Iran in January 1976, differing only from their American counterparts in the removal of certain classified avionics systems.

Still had use of Phoenix though.

In addition to the effects of the embargo itself, rumors suggest that all 77 remaining Tomcats (two had been lost in 1977 during training flights) were somehow sabotaged so that they could no longer fire their Phoenix missiles. Whether or not these rumors have any merit to them is debated, as is the identity of who may have performed this sabotage and how.

So if the Phoenix did not work then already some of the planes tactical use was gone.

Meanwhile, Iran claims that the F-14 accounted for 35 to 45 kills against the Iraqi Air Force for only one shot down. Iran has admitted to up to 12 further losses, but claims they all resulted from engine stall during dogfights rather than enemy fire. Though the claims of neither side have been verified, F-14s are known to have accounted for 3 air-to-air kills against Iraqi aircraft, including two Mirage F1s and a MiG-21. Western estimates for the true kill-loss ratio attained by the F-14 during the conflict credit 4 kills against 4 or 5 losses.

The US has estimated the number of operational Iranian F-14s at any given time at 15 to 20, and sometimes less than 10, due to the cannibalization of other planes to keep a few flying. Iran claims a much higher number, of course, and was indeed able to assemble 25 aircraft for a flyby over Teheran on 11 February 1985.By whatever means, Iran has been able to maintain a steady supply of spare parts for its F-14s, F-4s, and F-5s in spite of the embargo. Some of these parts may have been supplied through the arms-for-hostages deal that was revealed during the Iran-Contra scandal. Other sources claim that parts may have been smuggled through collusion with Israel. Some parts are also manufactured domestically by Iranian Aircraft Industries, and Iran has even gone so far as to claim that 100% of the parts required to keep the aircraft operational can be produced domestically. Nonetheless, US intelligence places that value closer to 70%, and a number of foreign nationals have in fact been implicated in efforts to illegally smuggle aircraft components from the US to Iran. Two men were so charged in December 2000 for attempting to illegally purchase F-4, F-5, and F-14 parts and ship them to Iran by way of Singapore. A fugitive named Houshang Amir Bagheri is also listed on the US Customs Most Wanted list for his attempts to acquire classified F-14 components on behalf of Iran.

So they are building some parts themselves if they do work...

While Iran has managed to keep at least a portion of its Western aircraft in service, the status of the vaunted Phoenix missile is still debated. Most sources indicate that none were used during the Iran-Iraq War owing to their supposed sabotage while others claim that up to 25 Iraqi planes were downed by AIM-54s before Iran exhasuted its supply in 1986.

It is also believed that one or more F-14s were delivered to the Soviet Union in exchange for technical assistance. In addition, at least one Iranian F-14 aircrew was reported to have defected to the Soviet Union with their aircraft. Some believe that Soviet access to Iranian Phoenix missiles allowed the Vympel Design Bureau to develop the R-33/AA-9 Amos long-range missile that equips the MiG-31, but chief designer Gennadiy Sokolovskiy has indicated that his team never had such access.

Bingo they could just say that to make the missiles look like a domestic effort.

In any event, it is believed that Soviet and Russian expertise has allowed Iran to operate, maintain, and upgrade the F-14 fleet. The aircraft are reportedly being upgraded with a new Russian radar, engines, and a glass cockpit allowing them to serve until well into the 21st century. The Iranian press has further indicated that the surviving aircraft have been adapted for a heavy bombing roll, perhaps armed with air-to-surface anti-ship missiles. Some 50 to 55 are believed to remain in service, but only about 30 of these are considered airworthy at any one time.

So they have been upgraded maybe with the same powerful engines that power the Su 35? And the last 2 sentences makes me believe that they are going to be used in the Persian Gulf yet I have yet to hear any reports from Americans of encounters, they would not use these in the Caspian sea of course!

I believe the the Soviets used the F-14's to get tech they did not have if so wouldn't they have given back something to Iran, for thanks, or even Iran showing interest seeing how useful the F-14 was and the the SU-27 would be a step up?

Cheers!

 

[AegisFC]

That site uses "it is believed" and "it was reported" (or variations on that theme) more than a few times, so it is best to take that page with a grain of salt.

 

[Lostfleet]

Earlier on the forum someone commented that Iranian Air Force against the Iraqi Air Force was not effective during the Iran-Iraq War as it did not gain full air superiority.

Iranian Air Force was deeply effected by the revolution, since most of its officers were trained in US and more liberal they were de-activated from the air force. Although most of the personel were re-instated for the war, Air Force lost a lot of qood qualified high ranking officers that were necessary for tactical and strategical planning. That was one of the factors besides equipment problems during the war.

 

[contedicavour]

Earlier on the forum someone commented that Iranian Air Force against the Iraqi Air Force was not effective during the Iran-Iraq War as it did not gain full air superiority.

Iranian Air Force was deeply effected by the revolution, since most of its officers were trained in US and more liberal they were de-activated from the air force. Although most of the personel were re-instated for the war, Air Force lost a lot of qood qualified high ranking officers that were necessary for tactical and strategical planning. That was one of the factors besides equipment problems during the war.

Yes. On top on the Iraqi side there was support from France, the US and the USSR in terms of equipment, weapons, maintenance, training and probably also satellite imagery, etc.

cheers

 

[Lostfleet]

US and USSR supporting the same side, a little bit of ironic

Is there a good website that covers the war besides wikipedia?

 

[Firehorse]

You bet!
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/iran_iraq_war/iran_iraq_war1.php

Check links at the bottom of last page!

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Not as we know. Although russians certainly had a chance to take a look at F-14. But i'm really hard pressed to think of any reason why russians would want to really buy it. Besides, Iran certainly need every single F-14 - it is still quite capable interceptor compared to anything Iran have right now.

They say a picture says a thousand words!

Apparently the soviets learned allot from the AWG-9/AIM-54 combination, it significantly influenced the Flanker program AFAIK.

On another note i doubt any of the AIM-54's are still viable even if some F-14's are combat capable. Apparently they modified Hawk for air launch and AWG-9 guidence (which is no mean feet) which should have a better range than AIM-7, given its size. The fact the IAF is going to such lengths should say alot about the availability of the AIM-54 system.

As for the question of IAF F-14A's vs RSAF F-15C's, you've got to be kidding me! As great as those old birds were they are still equipped with AWG-9, thats 1960's/70's technology, the rest of the avionics suite will be the same, thats compared to APG-63! Those cats wouldn't stand a chance against AIM-120 equipped F-15C's, they probably wouldn't perform very well against AIM-7 equipped F-15A's.

 

[AegisFC]

That pic is a fake, here is the original.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

That pic is a fake, here is the original.

Wow, thanks i thought that was a great shot. Too god to be true i guess!

 

[AegisFC]

Wow, thanks i thought that was a great shot. Too god to be true i guess!

I really have my doubts that Iran gave the Russians any F-14's, Russia was still an enemy of Iran after the revolution and to give them an example of the jet they bought to help defend against Russian overflights does not make sense. Could Iran let Russian observe the plane, and test it in Iran? Maybe and that that makes more sense than Iran giving a copy or 2 to Russia, especially since they had such a limited number of planes and parts in the first place.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

I really have my doubts that Iran gave the Russians any F-14's, Russia was still an enemy of Iran after the revolution and to give them an example of the jet they bought to help defend against Russian overflights does not make sense. Could Iran let Russian observe the plane, and test it in Iran? Maybe and that that makes more sense than Iran giving a copy or 2 to Russia, especially since they had such a limited number of planes and parts in the first place.

From what I heard, an Iranian pilot (presumed loyal to the pre-islamic revolution government) defected to the USSR flying one F-14 with Phoenix missles. There is more evidence that the USSR acquired one then the IRIAF losing one.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Out of the 79 F-14s delivered to Iran, how many of them remain in service? And of that many, how many are airworthy?

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Out of the 79 F-14s delivered to Iran, how many of them remain in service? And of that many, how many are airworthy?

The US has estimated the number of operational Iranian F-14s at any given time at 15 to 20, and sometimes less than 10, due to the cannibalization of other planes to keep a few flying. Iran claims a much higher number, of course, and was indeed able to assemble 25 aircraft for a flyby over Teheran on 11 February 1985.By whatever means, Iran has been able to maintain a steady supply of spare parts for its F-14s, F-4s, and F-5s in spite of the embargo.

Here you go. Russians have gave them the opportunity to have them upgraded.

 

[Lostfleet]

You bet!
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/iran_iraq_war/iran_iraq_war1.php

Check links at the bottom of last page!

Thanks a lot for the link,


F-14s were intended for carriers, was IRIAF F-14s modified for land operations? ( desert operations, high and hot take-offs? etc)

 

[chris30338]

Out of the 79 F-14s delivered to Iran, how many of them remain in service? And of that many, how many are airworthy?

According to what I've read, Iran has up to 44 operational Tomcats. They have also updated the old electronics to digital and have reverse engineered the Phoenix. Their Tomcats have all gone through depot level service and now sport a 2-tone blue/gray color scheme. This according to a lengthy piece written in volume 23 of "International Air Power". They have several noteworthy pictures of the updated Iranian tomcats in there too.

The Tomcats played a major role during the Iran-Iraq war, scoring many victories. In one particular instance, one f-14 destroyed 3 of 4 SU-22 Fitters with one Phoenix. They were flying in close formation and were bombed up for a ground attack mission. One was struck by the missile, blowing up and destroying 2 other Fitters in the same explosion. The F-14 pilots were (and still are) the cream of the crop.


I forgot to mention this, but if you checkout some Iranian military airfields using Google Earth, you can see about 20 F-14's parked on just one military airfield (I think it was Isfahan or Shiraz). Bushere airfield on the Gulf is also showing a few parked F-14's.

Pic:

http://www.mehrnews.com/mehr_media/i...02721_orig.jpg

Here's a link showing airborne Iranian Tomcats:

http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/amirtomcat/3221/

 

[Feanor]

Parked doesn't mean they fly. What date is the International Air Power entry?