IRIAF Tomcat

[simonov]

I am very confusing about this if we looking in western media, always said that Iranian Tomcat do nothing during Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), but when we read the ACIG research that said that Tomcat play major role during the war. Which is true? Even in ACIG said that Iranian hold degree for top aces in Phantom, Tomcat and Tiger I
CAn someone gave an right explanation about this ? Thx

 

[Black Legion]

As far as I know during the Iran-Iraq War in 1980s, Iran's F-14s, equipped with Phoenix missiles, capable of identifying and destroying six targets simultaneously from a range of eighty kilometers, inflicted heavy casualties on the Iraqi air force, which was forced to disperse its aircraft to Jordan and Oman. The capability of the F-14s and F-4s was enhanced by the earlier acquisition of a squadron of Boeing 707 tankers which extending their combat radius to 2,500 kilometers with in-flight refueling.

Iranian F-14 Tomcats were used like miniature AWACS reporting Iraqi fighter operations to Iranian air defense command with their powerful radars. In response, Iraqi Mirage F1-EQ fighters flew high-speed low-altitude profiles, well below the Tomcat's radar limits. They would pop up directly beneath the Tomcat's orbit, briefly illuminate the F-14 with its radar, and fire one or two air-to-air missiles at it. Iran lost several Tomcats this way.

 

[SABRE]

I am very confusing about this if we looking in western media, always said that Iranian Tomcat do nothing during Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), but when we read the ACIG research that said that Tomcat play major role during the war. Which is true?

Even in ACIG said that Iranian hold degree for top aces in Phantom, Tomcat and Tiger I
CAn someone gave an right explanation about this ? Thx

The later is true. The Iranian F-14s did shoot down some of the Iraqi fighters. Iranians were well trained by the Americans prior to the Revolution. They had one of the best Airforce in the world with operational F-4s, F-5s, F-14s & order for 80 F-16s (planned to induct 200 F-16s). But after the revolution the F-16 deals were canceled and U.S imposed sanctions on sell of F-4, F-5 & F-14 components to Iran. In the begining of the Iraq-Iran war the Iranians had an edge because of their trainings & hardware & initialy shot down quite a number of Iraqi fighters but later the US sanctions took its affects on the Iranian airforce. The war went on for 8 years, with Iraq getting western aid & Iranians losing their edge because of no back ups.

Iranians did have some aces with Phantoms, Tigers & F-14s aswell. But later in the war, with no components & much of weapons Iranians started to loose.

In the mid-war the tides turn because of the Iraqi F-1s, but Iraqis still lacked good skills in the air, thats why Iran was still able to put some resistance in the air.

After the war, Iran had lost good number of fighters & pilots trained by US. They ended up cannibalizing their damaged F-4s, F-5s & F-14s to save the ones in good conditions. Prior to the War Iran had 80 F-14s, after the war they had 50+ operational out of which abt 40 or so were actualy capable of fighting in the air. Now Iran only has 20+ battle capable F-14s.

 

[brian00]

If their airforce was so good how come they didnt win the war or even sustain less casualties than the iraqi's?

Poor tactics?

 

[SABRE]

If their airforce was so good how come they didnt win the war or even sustain less casualties than the iraqi's?

Poor tactics?

Read again ... the arms sanctions took its affect in the middle of the war. Their airforce initialy got scores but later they started having problems with components & weapons for their aircrafts. Some of F-4s & F-5s just ended up being grounded during the war. After the war they had to canabalize their damaged F-14s to save the operational ones. They had 80 F-14s & now they only have 22 & their operational & combat status is unknown.

 

[Firehorse]

Iran has achieved the capability of producing about 15 percent of the F-14.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/ea_china_02_04.asp

If they still fly them, then it's obvious that they can maintain their fleet, however small. I guess they'll hold on to them until a better replacement is avilable in sufficient quantity.

 

[Izzy1]

If they still fly them, then it's obvious that they can maintain their fleet, however small. I guess they'll hold on to them until a better replacement is avilable in sufficient quantity.

Do you reckon the IRIAF would put their F-14A against RSAF's F-15S?

 

[Firehorse]

They may, why not? F-14 is an interceptor/dogfighter, while F-15 isn't. If they have BWR AAMs, then there is less need to risk F-14s. I would use proven and newer MiG-29s, J-7s, and/or F-4s against those F-15s. I'm not that versed in aircombat so perhaps someone else can elaborate more on this question!

 

[eaf-f16]

They may, why not? F-14 is an interceptor/dogfighter, while F-15 isn't. If they have BWR AAMs, then there is less need to risk F-14s. I'm not that versed in aircombat so perhaps somene else can elaborate more on this question!

There is no reason putting the F-15S at risk. The best suited planes in the RSAF to take out Iranian F-14A's are the F-15C/D becuase they are dedicate for air-combat and don't have the strike capability of the F-15S. It would be a bigger loss to lose an F-15S than it would be to lose an F-15C/D. You also have to consider the fact that the F-15E never shot down another plane even though it participated in wars before.

Will the F-14A's stand a chance against Saudi Arabia's F-15C/D's? If they are well maintained, capable of firing Phoenix and have any upgrades to them of any sort, I would say they stand a good chance. But seeing as how the chances of Iranian F-14's being well maintained, capable of firing Phoenix and being upgraded are slim, I would say they don't stand a chance.

 

[Izzy1]

There is no reason putting the F-15S at risk. The best suited planes in the RSAF to take out Iranian F-14A's are the F-15C/D becuase they are dedicate for air-combat and don't have the strike capability of the F-15S. It would be a bigger loss to lose an F-15S than it would be to lose an F-15C/D.

Sorry that is wrong.

RSAF's F-15S are primarily dedciated to air defence missions not ground attack.

55 and 92 Squadrons at Dhahran and Khamis respectively train foremost for air defence. The RSAF F-15S contingents at RED FLAG are an example of this doctrine.

Ground attack missions within RSAF are still a bit of a taboo - with only 11 Wing's Tornados regularly practicing such missions.

 

[Salty Dog]

RSAF's F-15S are primarily dedicated to air defence missions not ground attack.

Sorry you got this one backwards.

The F-15S is the export version of the F-15E Strike Eagle, the main mission being deep strike at ground targets. While the F-15S can function in an air defense role, that is not what they are for.

 

[Izzy1]

Sorry you got this one backwards.

The F-15S is the export version of the F-15E Strike Eagle, the main mission being deep strike at ground targets. While the F-15S can function in an air defense role, that is not what they are for.

Salty, I work for here in Saudi (BAE Systems - RSAF, there ain't much difference out here!). F-15S even with the conformals, it will take down anything Iran throws up.

The biggest threat to RSAF - the ex-East German mercenaries flying Yemen's Mig-29s. They give the Saudi Eagle Drivers the run around down at Khamis.

We put AMRAAMS and 9Ms on all our Eagles.

Don't get me wrong, the Eagle S can carry ground ordnance, but until JDAM comes, it's the 250lb snake.

Putting a Maverick or a Paveway is something done for effect. It looks great at air shows.

 

[vivtho]

... You also have to consider the fact that the F-15E never shot down another plane even though it participated in wars before.
...

IIRC the F-15E has exactly one kill credited to it. During Desert Storm I, a Strike Eagle took out an Iraqi helicopter. The helo was on the ground when a LGB was dropped on it. When it started taking off, the WSO kept the laser on the helo and the bomb guided all the way on the hovering helo.

 

[Salty Dog]

F-15S even with the conformals, it will take down anything Iran throws up.

Thanks for the reply mate! RSAF doctrine most likely has the F-15S in an ADF role too, that would keep those "S" drivers on their toes.

I feel the whole IIRAF F-14/AWG-9/AIM-54 system probably is close to zero availability. The F-14 most likely is operational, but unknown just with what systems.

 

[eaf-f16]

IIRC the F-15E has exactly one kill credited to it. During Desert Storm I, a Strike Eagle took out an Iraqi helicopter. The helo was on the ground when a LGB was dropped on it. When it started taking off, the WSO kept the laser on the helo and the bomb guided all the way on the hovering helo.

I knew someone was going to bring that incident up when I wrote that sentence. The F-15S is just too expensive of an asset to lose when you have F-15C/D's that are built solely for the air-defense and air-superiority roles. If there is an enemy/unidentified aircraft penetrating Saudi airspace they should be sending F-15C/D's to shoot it down.

 

[ROCK45]

F-15

Firehorse They may, why not? F-14 is an interceptor/dogfighter, while F-15 isn't.

The F-15 is both and known world wide as one of the best fighters in the world. The AIM-54 if Iran even has any left would find if very difficult hitting a F-15, the pilot would basically have to be not paying attention. Talking to a F-15 driver on a different forum the Eagle is and was better from day one. To me the F-14 was a fleet interceptor basically designed to race out fast and fire huge AIM-54 radar guided missiles at Bear or other Russian bombers before there got in anti-ship missiles range. Like another poster mention Mig-29 could be more difficult. The Fulcrum pilot if possible some how manage not to get blown away by Slammers from many miles away a feat just by itself, could get the fight a little under mid range to close range, could be interesting.

Reading about the maintenance hours needed to keep the F-14s operational by the US Navy, I can't imagine those (22) Iranian F-14s being combat ready. Flyable yes making G turns and having weapon stations working and engines being pushed a little is a different thing. Iran's air force might be it's weakest part of there armed forces if you think about it. No air force to protect the SAM sites & radar's from stand-off weapons things become targets.

 

[vivtho]

I knew someone was going to bring that incident up when I wrote that sentence. The F-15S is just too expensive of an asset to lose when you have F-15C/D's that are built solely for the air-defense and air-superiority roles. If there is an enemy/unidentified aircraft penetrating Saudi airspace they should be sending F-15C/D's to shoot it down.

Sorry, but I just couldn't resist!:

 

[funtz]

The F-15 is both and known world wide as one of the best fighters in the world.

The AIM-54 if Iran even has any left would find if very difficult hitting a F-15, the pilot would basically have to be not paying attention.

Talking to a F-15 driver on a different forum the Eagle is and was better from day one.

To me the F-14 was a fleet interceptor basically designed to race out fast and fire huge AIM-54 radar guided missiles at Bear or other Russian bombers before there got in anti-ship missiles range. Like another poster mention Mig-29 could be more difficult.

The Fulcrum pilot if possible some how manage not to get blown away by Slammers from many miles away a feat just by itself, could get the fight a little under mid range to close range, could be interesting.

Reading about the maintenance hours needed to keep the F-14s operational by the US Navy, I can't imagine those (22) Iranian F-14s being combat ready. Flyable yes making G turns and having weapon stations working and engines being pushed a little is a different thing. Iran's air force might be it's weakest part of there armed forces if you think about it. No air force to protect the SAM sites & radar's from stand-off weapons things become targets

The F-15 is no small golf ball itself, and i wonder if a pilot will like to count on the chances of a missile missing its target, once it is known that a missile is heading towards a plane, or that a radar is tracking you for hostile action, what is the probable response?

I suppose all of this does not matter, much larger factors might be at play than a one on one between any two combat aircrafts.

 

[Cutaway]

Didnt Iran sell some F-14s to the Soviets once?

 

[Chrom]

Didnt Iran sell some F-14s to the Soviets once?

Not as we know. Although russians certainly had a chance to take a look at F-14. But i'm really hard pressed to think of any reason why russians would want to really buy it. Besides, Iran certainly need every single F-14 - it is still quite capable interceptor compared to anything Iran have right now.