Bushmaster 'Ute'

[Todjaeger]

are there any specs on this or is it just a prototype

regards
tom

If you click on the link, it takes one to what presumably is a sales brochure where it lists the vehicle specs like weight, suspension, max range, etc. All the information is available, you just need to scroll down to view it.

-Cheers

 

[buglerbilly]

Paint it pink and get rid of the machine gun on top solve the problem?

What about ex army unimogs or something along those lines?

Highly unlikely as they are half flogged to death and not really appropriate for any kind of armoured or protected role. It would be better to strat with new vehicles rather than try and cobble together inadequate older stuff.

 

[rossfrb_1]

Paint it pink and get rid of the machine gun on top solve the problem?
snip

how about a nice bright red or yellow and some nice shiny chrome? :
http://www.thalesgroup.com.au/images/bush_setting.jpg
http://www.adi-limited.com/site.asp?page=79

cheers
rb

 

[winnyfield]

Origainally from The Oz

Cameron Stewart | November 07, 2007

THE Australian Federal Police plans to have its own fleet of armoured vehicles to send to hotspots around the globe by late next year.

But the AFP denies the move will transform it into a paramilitary force, saying the new so-called "protected armoured response vehicles" will not be mounted with guns or other weapons.

Instead the armoured fleet will be used to protect AFP officers from attacks while deployed on peacekeeping missions in areas of civil unrest such as the Solomon Islands and East Timor.

About 320 AFP officers are on overseas deployments in more than 10 countries including the Solomons, East Timor, Nauru, Sudan, Cyprus, Cambodia and Afghanistan.

"These vehicles will assist in providing appropriate levels of protection for the often unstable environments that our members face offshore," an AFP spokeswoman told The Australian.

"The fatal shooting of Officer Adam Dunning whilst on mobile patrol in the Solomon Islands and the injuries sustained by AFP officers during the Honiara riots demonstrate the inherent dangers involved in peacekeeping operations and capacity building."

The move reflects a sharp expansion in the overseas operations of the AFP in recent years in both peacekeeping roles and counter-terrorism.

The AFP says it needs its own armoured vehicles on overseas deployments because the Australian Defence Force is not always present and cannot be relied on to protect AFP officers. The AFP declined to say how many armoured vehicles it wants and what the fleet will cost. It has not yet decided what type of armoured vehicle it will buy, but tenders closed last week and the AFP says it wants the new fleet to be delivered by late next year.

Possible purchase options shown to The Australian range from heavily armoured vehicles with similarities to their military counterparts to light armoured vehicles which look like Land Rovers. [from Bushmaster-esque to armoured SUVs]

The AFP's armoured vehicles will be used only for overseas operations and will not be used in Australia.

The move follows the $500million plan announced last year by AFP commissioner Mick Keelty to double the AFP's international force to about 1200 officers.

The most likely destination for the armoured vehicles is the Solomon Islands, where 213 AFP officers are deployed to help keep civil order.

A further 50 AFP officers are serving in East Timor while 15 are helping keep the peace in Cyprus.

The armoured vehicles are likely to be used by the AFP's new overseas anti-riot squad.

Expansion of the AFP's presence overseas is designed to avoid situations where heavily armed soldiers have to perform lengthy law and order missions better suited to well-trained police.

The multi-million-dollar investment in the AFP, including the armoured vehicles purchase, recognises that both army and police are vital to the success of long-term nation-building missions such as those in East Timor and the Solomons.

Armoured LCruisers for patrols supported by Lenco swat trucks (already widely used by police tactical units) for hard arrests. Police patrolling is different to a military patrol.

Anyhow, back to the Copperhead - has the descision already been made? Armoured unimogs and Mack trucks have been deployed o/s and the ADF has already (since this thread began) chosen the FMTV truck family that is able to be fitted with an armoured cab (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/fmtv-lsac_armored-cabs.jpg).

Also, the Bushmaster does have some towing capability so having a utility version seems rather wasteful (http://www.defence.gov.au/opslipper/images/gallery/20070605/index.htm).

 

[Aussie Digger]

RG-32's or 31's and the like would be the thing, possibly up to Iveco LMV's and EAGLE IV's altho the latter is pricey............

Possibly backed up by a few larger types, as in the truck category but light truck along the lines of MOWAG DURO IIIP 6x6 but if you go there you may as well use Bushies.

That would be the "heavy" end of the requirement.......the rest could be lightly armoured Wolf's or even Ford F350's, not so "military" or threatening (apparently!).

Without knowing the specification of what is required it's all "guess-timate" stuff................

I imagine it will be a 4wd vehicle that is capable of being armoured to withstand 7.62mm NATO fire at fairly short range.

A fully automatic 7.62mm SLR was used in the ambush of the AFP vehicle in which Adam DUNNING was murdered and I expect that AFP will consider this the "high end" of threats they will be expected to deal with.

Higher level threats than this are a military problem and I cannot forsee the AFP ever operating in an environment (without ADF "over watch") where it will be expected to deal with more lethal threats than this on it's own.

If people care to look at the types of vehicles the Portugese Para-Military police are driving around in Timor, they will get a good idea of the sort of capability the AFP is looking for...

 

[lobbie111]

Yeah had a little look, they are just standard 4x4's vans and a couple of mogs and some armoured intevention vehicles, they dont look armoured much...I think the most obvious choice is ex army land rovers or some new G-wagons just to share some compatibility with the defence force, an heres an idea why not use some of the liquidated M113 as armoured intevention vehicles but thats probably a bit too threatening

 

[MARKMILES77]

New Bushmaster Varient

Australian Defence Magazine is reporting that Thales are working on a new version of the Bushmaster, presumably based on the Copperhead (and probably a 6X6) which would be a Forward Combat Support Vehicle for Armoured Units.
It would travel with armoured units and provide them with everything that they need to operate. So the one Support vehicle would provide fuel, ammunition etc.

The same article said that a new updated version of the bushmaster, with improvements based on user feedback, had also been developed.

 

[Jezza]

the gov and the adf should use the bushmaster and variants
for as much as can or any new reason to use " aussie built "
the unions and thales should propose 20 to 30 say built to order
bushmasters for a wide variety of uses and missions

 

[winnyfield]

Looks like the Bushie has another customer, so far un-named. I'm guessing French - Thales is French and they like to by local. Maybe the French Gendarmerie? VAB replacement?

~3-5t load is similar to Australia's future FMTV fleet.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blog...79a7Post:8727f915-11e1-4335-b0a8-4e62e5a88efa

Tour de France (4) -- Thales Announces New Copperhead Vehicle
Posted by Joris Janssen Lok at 4/16/2008 4:57 PM CDT

Thales is developing a logistic flat bed cargo transport derivative of its Bushmaster 4 x 4 protected infantry mobility vehicle. The new mine-resistant, ambush-protected (MRAP)-type vehicle, known as the Copperhead, is to be unveiled at the upcoming Eurosatory land systems defense exhibition in Paris in June.

....

Copperhead will have a three-metric-ton load-carrying ability, he says, something that with “some modifications to the axles could be taken up to 4.5-5 tons.”

....

Thompson says that about 750 Bushmasters, designed and built by Thales Australia (previously known as ADI) have been sold so far.

Of these, over 700 are for the Australian Defence Force, some 35 for the Netherlands (which is using them in Uruzgan province, southern Afghanistan) and an undisclosed quantity have recently been acquired by a second European customer which Thales is not at liberty to identify.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Looks like the Bushie has another customer, so far un-named. I'm guessing French

maybe not. i attended a DFAT and SACC meeting early last year and we were advised that a Cebtral Euro country wanted 150 for "police cars".

thats stll yet to be announced - the country is not far from france - and the french have been providing assistance with through life upgrades for their combat jets....

 

[winnyfield]

Lets hope it doesn't end up like that US order.

 

[Blastmaster]

are there any specs on this or is it just a prototype

regards
tom

The Copperhead concept is an interesting one. Looks pretty good on paper but in reality is not a cost effective solution for moving containers and cargo in mine threatened areas. A truck with a suitably hardened cab is a simpler and far more cost effective solution.

I happen to know this from personal experience, having pioneered the first cargo variant of a monocoque MPV with the CASSPIR derived cargo variant - if you are interested I can put up a pic of this development I did back in1979/80 - wonder why the Copperhead looks so similar?

At the end of the day it is very much about bringing the troops (Diggers) home safely in the most cost effective way and in the final analysis this boils down to the cost per protected seat per km - irregular or assymetric warfare is very expensive indeed - ask the US!

Has the Copperhead cargo variant got a future? Not really in my book.Maybe it could make economic sense if used as a radar controlled AA carrier or MLRS platform - special applications only.

 

[Blastmaster]

Hmmm depends on how you qualify Aussie.

An Irish original design by a company now owned by the Singaporeans modified for use in the Americas by a US company from Aussie-built, in-service vehicles thru a European-owned company.............a real Aussie vehicle this one!

Regards,

BUG

I have been following the Bushmaster story and the many twists and turns this project has taken since it commenced in 1993 and have yet to see anything approaching the true facts about the development history of this vehicle, so to set the ball rolling, I am including herewith a bit of background history (with pics to follow) starting from when ADI Ltd acquired Perry Engineering's interest in this project in the middle 90's.

Perry Eng. had originally entered the competition, teamed with Stewart & Stevenson and Timoney and together they had produced the mildsteel prototype which was handbuilt in the Perry Engineering workshops in Adelaide and was one of the 3 shortlisted candidates left in the competition at the time ADI Ltd acquired the Perry Engineering interest.

Suffice it to say that at the time ADI acquired the project from Perry Engineering the Perry Bushmaster prototype did not comply with what was the "definitive specification" by the Australian Department of Defence and required comprehensive re-design, blast and ballistic testing and development to comply with this.And this is where the story gets very interesting indeed.

I will shortly put up pics of the handbuilt prototype vehicle ADI Ltd acquired from Perry Engineering as part of the acquisition in 1995/6 as well the first Bushmaster "re-designed" prototype built by ADI Ltd in 1997 after very extensive re-design, blast and ballistic testing and certification which served as the "master" for the 3 Bushmaster EV's (Evaluation Vehicles) which had to be delivered to the Commonwealth in terms of the original contract entered into by Perry Engineering, and which applied to ADI Ltd who had taken over their interest, by a certain deadline date.

The 3 EV's (called B1, B2 and B3) were delivered to Monegeetha on February 23, 1998, meeting the deadline set by the Commonwealth.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I have been following the Bushmaster story and the many twists and turns this project has taken since it commenced in 1993 and have yet to see anything approaching the true facts about the development history of this vehicle, monwealth.

Blastmaster.
I was involved with a couple of aspects of the original IM/FV requirement including the other contenders.

Bug is actually correct. Like it or lump it, it's a Timoney that was bastardised to the IM/FV specs.

What you won't see in the internet histories is the fact that the project was almost canned in 2001 - it only got legs because the govt of the day needed to secure Bendigo, and there were a lot of Govt votes to be had in that locale.

What you also won't find is that there were a number of reviewers who preferred one of the other contenders and the feeling was that local jobs at election time polluted the integrity of the decision.

Personally, I agree with quite a few of my cohorts that we picked the wrong vehicle.

 

[MARKMILES77]

gf

What was the right vehicle?

 

[gf0012-aust]

gf

What was the right vehicle?

as a base vehicle I preferred the Short.... bear in mind that they all pretty well kicked a goal in the proximity and STANAG tests.....

 

[Blastmaster]

Blastmaster.
I was involved with a couple of aspects of the original IM/FV requirement including the other contenders.

Bug is actually correct. Like it or lump it, it's a Timoney that was bastardised to the IM/FV specs.

What you won't see in the internet histories is the fact that the project was almost canned in 2001 - it only got legs because the govt of the day needed to secure Bendigo, and there were a lot of Govt votes to be had in that locale.

What you also won't find is that there were a number of reviewers who preferred one of the other contenders and the feeling was that local jobs at election time polluted the integrity of the decision.

Personally, I agree with quite a few of my cohorts that we picked the wrong vehicle.

Bastardized Timoney? Much of the original design work was actually done in Adelaide by a small team which included two really switched on Perry engineers with drawings going back and forth between Adelaide and Ireland for checking and conversion into electronic drawings as the data pack was gradually built up whilst the prototype was being built. I am also aware that there was also design assistance from S&S with one of their engineers assisting with the design work particularly relating to the powerplant/transmission installation.

Fact of the matter is that very, very few if any drawings from the original Perry prototype were carried over into the new ADI re-designed Bushmaster. Bastardized design? You cannot be serious.

As I recall there were two other contenders left by the time ADI got involved with the Bushmaster project - The Taipan and the BAe contender, Foxhound and the Foxhound dropped out soon after.

The Taipan was "leading contender" at the time and the original development Taipan with the standard manual Unimog transmission did a trip around Australia visiting a number of Army bases as a bit of advance marketing and promotion.

When the Taipan had to be converted to automatic transmission, the picture changed dramatically and it became a race against time to re-design the Taipan and qualify it again with its new Renk auto transmission and as I recall it not only did it not make the February 23, 1998 delivery deadline, but suffered numerous transmission failures and problems to the point where at one stage during the trials, the South Africans flew in a complete repair team to come and re-work these machines to keep them going at Bandianna.

About the Foxhound I cannot comment as it never made it to the official trials, so which other vehicles you think were better would be interesting to find out as there were only 3 at the end.

Sure, the Bushmaster was not faultless, but it certainly gave a better account of itself overall in the trials.

And yes, what you say about the Bushmaster almost being canned is certainly correct (read the ANAO reports on the Busmaster contract on the net) and whilst I may go along with some of the reasons you put forward why the project was "not canned", I may not completely agree with you that these were the only reasons for not cancelling it - there was definitely a lot more to this story.

As I said previously, there is much, much more to the Bushmaster story.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Australian Defence Magazine is reporting that Thales are working on a new version of the Bushmaster, presumably based on the Copperhead (and probably a 6X6) which would be a Forward Combat Support Vehicle for Armoured Units.
It would travel with armoured units and provide them with everything that they need to operate. So the one Support vehicle would provide fuel, ammunition etc.

The same article said that a new updated version of the bushmaster, with improvements based on user feedback, had also been developed.

I think they missed the boat with this one. A "tracked load carrier" variant of the M113AS3/4 has been designed and ordered already.

Can't see a big need for this vehicle just yet. Perhaps in 20 years...

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Taipan was "leading contender" at the time and the original development Taipan with the standard manual Unimog transmission did a trip around Australia visiting a number of Army bases as a bit of advance marketing and promotion.

a bit more than just "marketing and promotion"

there were 27 built for the kuwaitis and thus had some real live field data to refer to - the modified timoney had no practical history to offer up as evidence of capability.

Bushmaster is a good platform (now), but lets not apply wunderkind marketing hype to its history.....

 

[MARKMILES77]

I think they missed the boat with this one. A "tracked load carrier" variant of the M113AS3/4 has been designed and ordered already.

Can't see a big need for this vehicle just yet. Perhaps in 20 years...

Presumably, they see it supporting the ASLAV equipped units rather than the units with tracked vehicles.