Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[SuperSLime]

But i did hear about SIG wanting to manufacture cheaper rifles after the reliable but heavy SIG 510 "standard issue light machine gun" of a battle rifle.

Cheaper than the SIG 510 does not mean "cheap." My BMW was cheaper than a Ferrari would have been, but it still cost a whole pile of money.

And about me mentioning the M1918 BAR/FM24 action for a 5.56 rifle, I meant if it used the same gas operation but instead fired from a closed bolt. It may be a machine gun action but may still work.

If it fired from a closed bolt it wouldn't be the same action. LOTS of weapons use the same gas mechanism as the BAR, in the sense that they have a tube with a piston in it.

You really need to stop digging up obscure weapons and suggesting them as possible modern service rifles. You'll just get laughed at. For example, there IS a reason why nobody has adopted the Interdynamics MKS, and it's not because the world's procurement agencies are less knowledgeable than you; it's because it was a useless piece of shit.

 

[JamieG.CAV]

we should get that dragonskin body armour the americans are testing atm. as seen on future weapons! look it up on youtube! pretty impressive stuff but looks like it may restrict movement a little?? however saves your ass from a 7.62 whereas standard body armour these days wont protect you very well

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Any chances that they might opt for the Tavor?

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html

I was thinking that Turkey might have got this then they got the MKE Mehmetcik 1( HK 416) instead. Turkish special forces used them so they might have already known how they work like in the field.

They also had there own Bullpup rifle design made by Kalipkale which got stopped I think was a very stupid decision.

 

[buglerbilly]

Dragonskin is so good its banned from use in all of the U.S. Armed Sevices.

The fact the CEO of that company also acts likes a total prat does little to change that ban.

Fer sure its not for Australia..............

 

[winnyfield]

But i did hear about SIG wanting to manufacture cheaper rifles after the reliable

I think you're referring to the SIG 556 (link) intended for the American civilian market (ie. enthusiast and police departments).

Great. A full-size rifle firing 5.56mm. What a waste of time.

Like the M16? Also, the FN FAL was originally intended for a smaller cartridge.

 

[winnyfield]

About the new body armour from DoD PR (pics). And i guess this must be the plate (here)

http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/CombetTranscripttpl.cfm?CurrentId=7574

.....

CAPT LANGELAAN:

Ladies and gentlemen, as Brian just said, my name is Captain Luke Langelaan, I'm the Project Leader for the modular combat body armour system within the Australian Defence Force, or DMO.


I'd just like to point out a few things, or a few reasons why we've gone with the ADA solution in particular. The modular combat body armour system is designed, as you can see, to be modular, :roll: ie parts can be put on and off, or taken on and off, as required, or as the operational situation dictates it. This means that this body armour can be used in a variety of operational areas that the Australian Defence Force operates in, and that includes places such as East Timor, where there may be a lower threat, or places such as the Middle East, where there may be a higher threat.


The body armour is going to be manufactured in two different colours, both the disruptive pattern camouflage that you see here and also this colour, the desert pattern camouflage that you can see here. As you can tell it's got a variety of modular parts which can be detached. I'm wearing basically one of the more minimal aspects of the system, and if I want, I could attach further components, arms, legs and the like to increase my protection.


The modular combat body armour system provides a greatly enhanced protection on top of what our existing systems are in the Australian Defence Force. It provides a better ballistic protection and greater comfort and manoeuvrability for our soldiers, and all of that at a pretty comparable weight.


I'm happy to take any questions if you have any further questions regarding the body armour system. Suffice it to say, it's here as you see it now. It also incorporates a quick release system which can be used by a soldier or by one of their colleagues in case of an emergency, whether they might have been injured from an explosive blast, or whether they might be trapped in a vehicle or helicopter, in the case of a crash or accident. That quick release system is simply operated by pulling a quick release handle, which I can demonstrate for you now. So as simple as that the body armour…

 

[old faithful]

fella,s this "what about this riflexxx?"
No thats dumb
then how about YYY?
even dumber! type conversation is boreing.

I cant see the F88 being retired for a while yet. Australia will be using it as long as the US and NATO are useing 5.56.

So....does Australia NEED a replacement for the Styer? No, not at the moment.

 

[ando]

We won't be getting rid of the F88 for long time yet. Yes it can do with a few improvements but, it's what we got now. We are a small country with a fairly small budget (compared to the US and Britain). We basically can't afford to spend s#*t tins on new equipment every 10 or so years.

Besides, how long did we have the venerable old SLR for?? Before Vietnam till what mid to late 80's.

 

[old faithful]

Gday ando, welcome....BTW, im in stuart park.

 

[Chino]

Why replace a 5.56 rifle that works with another 5.56 rifle?

I dunno, maybe the existing stocks are getting worn-out? And a new 5.56 weapon may offer diffferent/new possibilities?

 

[Aussie Digger]

We won't be getting rid of the F88 for long time yet. Yes it can do with a few improvements but, it's what we got now. We are a small country with a fairly small budget (compared to the US and Britain). We basically can't afford to spend s#*t tins on new equipment every 10 or so years.

Besides, how long did we have the venerable old SLR for?? Before Vietnam till what mid to late 80's.

It will be getting quite a few upgrades under LAND 125.

It won't be replaced ANY time soon...

 

[SuperSLime]

Like the M16? Also, the FN FAL was originally intended for a smaller cartridge.

The M-16 is a good bit smaller and lighter than a full-size FAL. You're right, the FAL was designed initially for 7.92mm Kurz. However it was quickly changed to 7mm and then to 7.62mm.

 

[SuperSLime]

Why replace a 5.56 rifle that works with another 5.56 rifle?

I really don't see that happening. The AUG is basically a sound design, and there's no good reason to replace it unless/until the decision is made to move to another calibre.

 

[SuperSLime]

Turkish special forces used them so they might have already known how they work like in the field.

I suspect that they do know how they work in the field; given that, the fact that it wasn't selected as the new service rifle probably says something...

I think the Turkish Army will be quite happy with the 416.

 

[Cutaway]

I say the HK416, at least over the FN SCAR as it is more suited to a standard issue rifle. Or as i mentioned earlier, a front magazined AUG as it would be unique to the Australian forces.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2396/frontmagaugad8.jpg

 

[SuperSLime]

I say the HK416, at least over the FN SCAR as it is more suited to a standard issue rifle. Or as i mentioned earlier, a front magazined AUG as it would be unique to the Australian forces.

THERE IS NO FRONT-MAGAZINE AUG!!!!! Why the [Admin Text deleted: Read the forum rules on Language etc.. plse] would you want to spend all that money to develop one?? Australia doesn't need a lot of weapons; rather than an insane conversion like that, IF they wanted a new 5.56mm weapon - which they don't - they would buy one off the shelf.

Nobody gives a [Admin Text] deleted if their weapon is unique to them; it just isn't a factor.

 

[Cutaway]

THERE IS NO FRONT-MAGAZINE AUG!!!!! Why the [Admin Text] would you want to spend all that money to develop one?? Australia doesn't need a lot of weapons; rather than an insane conversion like that, IF they wanted a new 5.56mm weapon - which they don't - they would buy one off the shelf.

Nobody gives a [Admin Text] if their weapon is unique to them; it just isn't a factor.

FFS, I know there isnt a front magged AUG, But a conversion or development of a totally new rifle would keep Australia in buisness with the Defence Industry.

 

[SuperSLime]

FFS, I know there isnt a front magged AUG, But a conversion or development of a totally new rifle would keep Australia in buisness with the Defence Industry.

That would be a really stupid idea given the number of weapons Australia needs. Australia can't afford the R&D costs; it just wouldn't be economical. That is why they choose a foreign design and make it under licence. They have better things to spend their money on than a pointless project like a front-magazine AUG.

By the way, that wouldn't be a matter of designing a conventional stock. Most of the weapon body is a single composite moulding and a completely new one would have to be designed. Daft idea.

 

[lobbie111]

We already are working on a new hybrid rifle similar to the US OICW that uses metalstorm grenades and the steyr base, I'm not sure anything came of it though.

I have designed an add on feature that would retail for about $100 AUD that makes the rifle ambidetrous and eliminates the problem for iron sights (in bulpups they need to be really high to compensate for the flat top or somthing like that) Its an addon feature that uses the same materials as the steyr and comes in two versions, a bolt on "permanent" version and clip on temporary version.

Some modification of the rifle is needed though which makes it a bit more of an expense. The permanent version just screws into the rifle whereas the clip on clips around the rifle.

The ejection port on the rifle is mounted vertically in a sort of swivel mount with loose tolerances. Next a cheeck guard that can be attached in the field (made out of polymer) is mounted on the desired side of the rifle this cheek guard puts pressure on the ejection port angling it away from the firer, the user can take it off and mount it on the other side (say for a lefty) and it works the same way.

 

[ando]

As for the AUG F88 only prob I have with it is the lines in the sight could be a little finer so targets don't disappear behind one of the lines when trying to hit something at a greater range.

Front magazine AUG F88??? WHY?????


Old Faithful. Any links to 3?? Just curious. Had a great big Cpl RI at sunny old (or freezing, depending on what time of year) Camp K that was from 3. haha Really good RI. I'm stuck at Can't Support Sh*t Bat (yes poge) for the time being, until my corp trans course comes up for Sigs in June. The Bat's not too bad unless like me your coded on stuff that not many others are and you end up getting smashed with tasks and bush trips.