Gripen - Red Flag

[Dr Freud]

Haven´t heard anything about "smart skin materials" emitting radiowaves on this aircraft

i think he was talking about receiving

maybe you need to look at the F-22's leading edges again....

If that white color on every edge of f22 imply radar receiver... ermm thats a fantastic panorama view 360, together with stealth as if hand made to monitor what the other guy are up to.

did f22 away with receivers in front ?

the demonstrator antenna was only 7mm thick!

 

[Grand Danois]

It´s my understanding that FCS is part of a aircrafts avionics. As mentioned above avionics is ALL electronic systems onboard...

C.

Edit: hp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avionics (Replace hp with http)
Yes I know it´s wikipedia but I think they are somewhat "correct" this time.

I'd think that FCS is airframe specific. That it is termed avionics seems irrelevant in this context. That's only semantics.

To be more specific - it is testing the mission systems.

 

[caprise]

caprise: "Smart skin" is an expression FMV (Swedish Defence Research Agency) use in a research report, in a try to "predict" technological development in the future.

There is an abstract in english at page 5. Some picture also in the document - look at page 17, 18 & 19.

Isn´t it a universal term..it´s used in this rather old AIAA doc and other references as well?:
hp://www.aiaa.org/content.cfm?pageid=406&gTable=mtgpaper&gID=13020
(Replace hp with http)
BTW, thanks for the link!

i think he was talking about receiving

Like a RWR system then...

I'd think that FCS is airframe specific. That it is termed avionics seems irrelevant in this context. That's only semantics.

To be more specific - it is testing the mission systems.

Ok, I tought adding control surfaces to CATBird had some connection to basic FCS functionality , ie to make sure that everyting worked together.

But you are right lets quit the semantics (and return to the thread title)...

I haven´t found anything about this years Red Flag (week 28-31). If anybody have missed that - Gripen will be there. Do anybody know/guess what other participant there are (maybe classified at this point, or?).

C.

 

[Grand Danois]

Ok, I tought adding control surfaces to CATBird had some connection to basic FCS functionality , ie to make sure that everyting worked together.
C.

I don't know the specifics of the avionics, and I'm not saying I know that it has conformal arrays. But at least we're talking some type of higly integrated sensors.

And what about Gripens for A'stan?

 

[caprise]

...And what about Gripens for A'stan?

It seems that the SwAF want to go (with 4-6 Gripens) but Sten Tolgfors (defence MP)says no, for the moment at least.
hp://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/artikel_979199.svd (In Swedish, Replace hp with http)

I don´t know exactly what resources in airpower they (Europe) have there at the moment? However if the Swedish goverment got a formal request to contribute with aircrafts - they can that way calm the worst media/political outcries with the argument that they just helped their friends in need - maybe they vill comply and send Gripen there?
Just guessing... and then there´s is only two years to next election. :roll:

C.

 

[Dr Freud]

And what about Gripens for A'stan?

I think heretic was right, -allways someone happy to provide fighters for international operations.
Its the only way to get some practise bombing someone that cant shoot back.imp

 

[Dr Freud]

But you are right lets quit the semantics (and return to the thread title)...

I haven´t found anything about this years Red Flag (week 28-31). If anybody have missed that - Gripen will be there. Do anybody know/guess what other participant there are (maybe classified at this point, or?).

C.

I(someone) have now received government confirmation on a GO for Red Flag participation with Swedish Air force Gripens.

The endevour will begin week 28 and end week 31. That is basically July which means this time it's not Alaska but in Nellis.. home base of the original Red Flag.

Unfortunately the list of participating air forces is classified at this time.

"Vid regeringssammanträdet den 6 mars 2008 togs beslut om att Sverige deltar i övningen Red Flag.
[..]
Om du skickar din adress så kommer en kopia på regeringsbeslutet på posten.

Hälsningar
Johanna

Swedish Ministry of Defence
Department for International and Security Affairs
Adress: Jakobsgatan 9, SE-103 33 STOCKHOLM
Phone: +46 8 405 26 87
Cell: +46 70 498 87 72"

 

[caprise]

I(someone) have now received government confirmation on a GO for Red Flag participation with Swedish Air force Gripens..

Thanks Dr Freud, but I already knew that (Linked to it in post 328).
Maybe we will get more info further on...

C.

 

[Dr Freud]

In response to lack of posts, i'd thought of providing a video, which may spawn something, or at least provide some entertainment.

doubleclick to open link instead of play seem to work better, and more videos on the site also.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0dWvKLHj-k"]YouTube - Network Enabled Capability[/ame]

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Ok, I tought adding control surfaces to CATBird had some connection to basic FCS functionality , ie to make sure that everyting worked together.
.

Perhapse the canards on the CAT-Bird are intended to provide the extra lift & stability needed to handle the increased weight of the AN/APG 81 + the cooling system? That extra weight up front needs to be countered with an appropriate increase in frontal lift or your centr of gravity is going to move forward while your centre of lift stays put. Thats not good for stability. Such unstability may be good for an F-16 but i dont think its desireable on a comercial air liner.

 

[caprise]

Perhapse the canards on the CAT-Bird are intended to provide the extra lift & stability needed to handle the increased weight of the AN/APG 81 + the cooling system?

But a radar doesn´t weigh more than +200 kg, or so. Same weight as a couple of (overweight) stewardesses visiting the pilots with cookies and coffee.
Doubt that it will affect stability.

Regards C.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

But a radar doesn´t weigh more than +200 kg, or so. Same weight as a couple of (overweight) stewardesses visiting the pilots with cookies and coffee.
Doubt that it will affect stability.

Regards C.

Does that include the avioncs and cooling payload?

Although your probably right, just a thought.

 

[rattmuff]

Red flag participation and Gripens to Afghanistan. Looks nice, seems nice. Good to know that at home the Gripen-pilots and planes are grounded and that this year and the comming years no new swedish Gripen-pilots will be trained and educated.
Reason: Economical implosion sort of. All political thou, so don't respond to this remark.

 

[caprise]

Does that include the avioncs and cooling payload?

Don´t know exactly what´s included in the weight number for radars, I must admit, my guess is that electronics is - all LRU (Line Replacable units)boxes you see behind the antenna).

AFAIK the radar is cooled by the fuel onboard(heat exchangers). A special cooling liquid (probably Polyalphaolefin (PAO), used by Gripen and F-22 among others) is pumped to the fuel tanks wich in turn require some tubing, pumps, flow indicators and safety valves etc.). Shouldn´t weigh much but the cooling arrangement on testbeds as the CatBird might look different...who knows?

Found a link describing aircraft cooling:
hp://www.lytron.com/tools_technical/notes/aircraft_liquid_cooling.aspx (change hp to http)

Regards C.

 

[Dr Freud]

Hi Heretic, here is my thoughts

maintenance, availability
Jas39 advantage?

You bet, In 2007 the F22 where still flying less then 1 hour between maintenance actions (GAO-07-406SP)

Extensive maintenance has been associated with compounds that are used to fill gaps or seams on the aircrafts surface to help maintain the aircrafts low observable/"stealthy nature (GAO-01-310)

We can expect similar less-then-1-hour MTBF from F35, for the same reason.

Compare that with 7.6 hour MTBF on Gripen

Even Mirage 2000 has 6.8 h MTBF

Imagine having a car where you have to spend more time repairing then driving, actually reminds me of my hanger-queen !@#$% BIKE!!!!!!

 

[Grand Danois]

Maintenance action and MTBF are not the same...

Hi Heretic, here is my thoughts


You bet, In 2007 the F22 where still flying less then 1 hour between maintenance actions (GAO-07-406SP)

Extensive maintenance has been associated with compounds that are used to fill gaps or seams on the aircrafts surface to help maintain the aircrafts low observable/"stealthy nature (GAO-01-310)

We can expect similar less-then-1-hour MTBF from F35, for the same reason.

Compare that with 7.6 hour MTBF on Gripen

Even Mirage 2000 has 6.8 h MTBF

Imagine having a car where you have to spend more time repairing then driving, actually reminds me of my hanger-queen !@#$% BIKE!!!!!!

 

[Dr Freud]

Perhaps the Swedes should plug into NATOs.

Gotta agree on this one, its long overdue.

 

[Fritz]

BWR AvA
big jsf advantage
(apparently much more important than wvr)

Not so sure about that, lately a visual confirmation has been required before engagement. To avoid shooting down airliners and so forth...

 

[swerve]

Not so sure about that, lately a visual confirmation has been required before engagement. To avoid shooting down airliners and so forth...

But not in a full-on war. Wasn't required in 1991, wasn't required in spring 2003.

 

[Grand Danois]

Not so sure about that, lately a visual confirmation has been required before engagement. To avoid shooting down airliners and so forth...

But then again, Patriot batteries operated in "God mode" during OIF, i.e. no visual whatsoever.

Visual is good during times of crisis, in war BVR is on.