Su-34 Fullback Capability

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nevidimka

New Member
I was reading up on SU34 when i found this diagram:


http://www.ausairpower.net/Su-32FN-Systems-PLA-N.png

What interest me is the Incremental X-Band RCS Reduction on the top of its fuselage behind the cockpit. Now, is this a Radar cancellation device to reduce its RCS?

What would be its RCS like considering that it uses fixed air intake, Stealthy frontal profile, possibly RAM etc?
 
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vivtho

New Member
Actually the image is kind of vague on the subject. The text you've quoted sounds more like a general feature of the aircraft saying that it is stealthier against radio sources in the X-band rather than an active radar-cancellation system

Just my $0.02
 
S

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The diagram refers to the general airfame layout and materials used rather than a RCS reduction device.

The Su-34 is a huge aircraft to being with, so every little bit helps.
 
C

Chrom

New Member
Most likely just RCS coat and some measures to reduce RCS when illuminated from frontally-above direction. In that case open engine intakes shouldnt contribute much in RCS. This, in turn, suggest low-level penetration.
 
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Salty Dog

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Chrom said:
Most likely just RCS coat and some measures to reduce RCS when illuminated from frontally-above direction. In that case open engine intakes shouldnt contribute much in RCS. This, in turn, suggest low-level penetration.
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In most cases engine intakes are prime contributors to RCS. Compare the engine intake configurations between the F-14, F-15, Mig-25, Mig-31, Su-27/30/33/34 to the F-117, F-22, F-35, Su-47. Some obvious differences, mainly in inlet geometry.
 
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Viktor

New Member
Su-34 since it was introduced was modernized three times and another one including radar and engine modernization is right about a corner. So what link has up to date information about it.
 
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nevidimka

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  • #8
OK, i see it now. Its a combination of factors when they mention about the RCS reduction.
The Su34 has fixed geometry Air intake, doesnt that hep in reducing the RCS as well?
On a side note, i read about the SU34 from this wbsite:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Fullback.html

The article says the cockpit picture provided will not be the final design as the production cockpit will be fully glass cockpit. IS there a picture of this?
 
C

Chrom

New Member
Salty Dog said:
In most cases engine intakes are prime contributors to RCS. Compare the engine intake configurations between the F-14, F-15, Mig-25, Mig-31, Su-27/30/33/34 to the F-117, F-22, F-35, Su-47. Some obvious differences, mainly in inlet geometry.
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Care to read? HOW the hell enine intakes would contribute to RCS when illuminated from frontally-above?
 
S

Salty Dog

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Chrom said:
Care to read? HOW the hell enine intakes would contribute to RCS when illuminated from frontally-above?
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A major contributor to RCS is the compressor blades of the engine. Radar waves hitting compressor blades head on produce a very strong reflection. In stealth aircraft, the front of the engine is hidden from the view of radar by using a slightly s-shaped air intake.

You can not guarantee that radar waves will always be coming from "frontally-above". Most air search RF will be coming from below, especially from long range ground based radar.
 
W

Wooki

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F-15 Eagle said:
If you guys want more info on the SU-34 then check out this link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-34.htm
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Just a thought, but in the above cited link it claims that the aircraft in question is carrier capable. Yet I have never seen a photo of the aircraft with a tailhook. Even the ones where it appears to be landing on a flight deck.

So I would hazard to suggest that its not a carrier based aircraft at all (unless somebody supplies a photo with the missing gear that is).

cheers

w
 
S

Salty Dog

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Wooki said:
Just a thought, but in the above cited link it claims that the aircraft in question is carrier capable. Yet I have never seen a photo of the aircraft with a tailhook. Even the ones where it appears to be landing on a flight deck.

So I would hazard to suggest that its not a carrier based aircraft at all (unless somebody supplies a photo with the missing gear that is).

cheers

w
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Since the Su-34 and the Su-33 are "cousins", someone may have arrived at that conclusion. I would think the Su-34 is rather too heavy for STOBAR ops.
 
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nevidimka

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  • #15
Actually, before the SU34 looked like a SU34, Sukhoi created a prototype that had a side by side seating bulby cockpit, but it retained the nose of the flanker series. This aircrafts looked wierd, but it was designed to be carrier capable. It is this side by side seating aircraft that lead to the SU34. Considering the difference between that aircraft n the SU34 is the reshaped canopy n a longer tail sting, this is why they said the Su34 is carrier capable.

If they want to create a carrier capable SU34, it wont take much effort other than shortening the tail sting.

http://www.ausairpower.net/000-Su-27KUB-4ES.jpg

http://www.ausairpower.net/000-Su-27KUB-5ES.jpg
 
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nevidimka

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Another thing i would like to add is, in the Ausairpower review it says the Su34 will be using Sapsan-E thermal imaging and laser targeting pod which will be carried externally.

But in a recent news i read in Milavia , it said RUssia will be building a Thales designed targetting pod ( probably Damocles )under license manufacture for its aviation after a locally made targetting pod ( SAPSAN-E IIRC ) lost the competition.

Will this thales desingned pod be used on the production Su34? or will the Sapsan-E be used? And which aviation in Russian AF is gonna use the Thales pod?
 
C

Chrom

New Member
Salty Dog said:
A major contributor to RCS is the compressor blades of the engine. Radar waves hitting compressor blades head on produce a very strong reflection. In stealth aircraft, the front of the engine is hidden from the view of radar by using a slightly s-shaped air intake.

You can not guarantee that radar waves will always be coming from "frontally-above". Most air search RF will be coming from below, especially from long range ground based radar.
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Thats why low-level aproach - so ground-based radars didnt have much range.

I agree, quite limited. But i just explained design compromisses.
 
S

Salty Dog

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nevidimka said:
Another thing i would like to add is, in the Ausairpower review it says the Su34 will be using Sapsan-E thermal imaging and laser targeting pod which will be carried externally.

But in a recent news i read in Milavia , it said RUssia will be building a Thales designed targetting pod ( probably Damocles )under license manufacture for its aviation after a locally made targetting pod ( SAPSAN-E IIRC ) lost the competition.

Will this thales desingned pod be used on the production Su34? or will the Sapsan-E be used? And which aviation in Russian AF is gonna use the Thales pod?
Click to expand...
Russian fighters to use Thales Damocles targeting pods

By Vladimir Karnozov

(source: www.flightglobal.com)

Russia will license-produce the Thales Damocles reconnaissance and target designation pod for its air force strike aircraft, following successful tests of the system with Malaysia's Sukhoi Su-30MKM multirole fighter.

Made late last year, the decision will see Damocles become the first piece of Western equipment approved for integration with Russia's combat aircraft, and the first to be produced locally under an official licence with the system's developer.

Comparative trials involving Damocles and the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ)-produced Sapsan and Solux targeting pods went in favour of the French design.

UOMZ received production approval from Thales in late 2007 and will now assemble a customised version of the system for the Russian market using locally written software. However, the company will also continue to refine its Sapsan system to pursue future sales to Russia and potential export users.

Moscow has yet to reveal which of its aircraft could be equipped with the Damocles system, but its Su-27SM2 and Su-34 fighters are considered lead candidates, along with upgraded Su-24M2s and Su-27SMs.

Damocles is the the same system used on the French Rafale.
 
O

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
Salty Dog said:
Russian fighters to use Thales Damocles targeting pods

By Vladimir Karnozov

(source: www.flightglobal.com)

Russia will license-produce the Thales Damocles reconnaissance and target designation pod for its air force strike aircraft, following successful tests of the system with Malaysia's Sukhoi Su-30MKM multirole fighter.

Made late last year, the decision will see Damocles become the first piece of Western equipment approved for integration with Russia's combat aircraft, and the first to be produced locally under an official licence with the system's developer.

Comparative trials involving Damocles and the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ)-produced Sapsan and Solux targeting pods went in favour of the French design.

UOMZ received production approval from Thales in late 2007 and will now assemble a customised version of the system for the Russian market using locally written software. However, the company will also continue to refine its Sapsan system to pursue future sales to Russia and potential export users.

Moscow has yet to reveal which of its aircraft could be equipped with the Damocles system, but its Su-27SM2 and Su-34 fighters are considered lead candidates, along with upgraded Su-24M2s and Su-27SMs.

Damocles is the the same system used on the French Rafale.
Click to expand...


Great news for the RuAF! The Damocles is a great peice of kit and should provide the russians with a truely comprehenseive day/night presission attack capability. Something they dearly needed.

Its intersting to see such an advanced western piece of kit being aquired and produced by the russians, it marks a real move by moscow into the global defence market IMO, which can only be a good thing for russian capability.
 
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nevidimka

New Member
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  • #20
Ozzy Blizzard said:
Great news for the RuAF! The Damocles is a great peice of kit and should provide the russians with a truely comprehenseive day/night presission attack capability. Something they dearly needed.

Its intersting to see such an advanced western piece of kit being aquired and produced by the russians, it marks a real move by moscow into the global defence market IMO, which can only be a good thing for russian capability.
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Were they in any danger of not being able to hit a designated target in daytime or night? That thier premier Su24 planes couldnt hit a target at night? That the whole RuAF n SovietAF was incapable of hitting a ground target accurately? I doubt so.

I would really like to know the parameters n conditions used for the comparative testing n results if its available.
 
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