RMAF Future; need opinions

ROCK45

New Member
9X Question

Hi qwerty223

qwerty223
agreed. not to mention AIM-9X need a more sophisticate upgrade on both software and hardware.
How do you know that I never heard of a problem with the 9X? Can you explain I would like to know what's wrong? The only thing bad about the 9X I ever heard/seen was this guy in this other forum mention that only six or seven American squadrons even have them? I wouldn't know how to search for that he didn't back it up a link.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif
Smile
 

qwerty223

New Member
Hi qwerty223



How do you know that I never heard of a problem with the 9X? Can you explain I would like to know what's wrong? The only thing bad about the 9X I ever heard/seen was this guy in this other forum mention that only six or seven American squadrons even have them? I wouldn't know how to search for that he didn't back it up a link.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif
Smile
totally have no idea what are you talking about.
 

ROCK45

New Member
9x

qwerty223
agreed. not to mention AIM-9X need a more sophisticate upgrade on both software and hardware.
How do you know you know the 9X needs a more sophisticate upgrade on both software and hardware. I'm asking you how do know that?
 

nevidimka

New Member
Also noted the following website (which is quite old). ATSC projected that RMAF would reach 1,000 hours in year 2002 (which represent 7 years of flying). Translated, that means that flight hours was ~140+ per year or 70 hours per crew.

http://www.epicos.com/epicos/extended/malaysia/atsc/atsc_projects.html

If the above is accurate, then the Migs should be due for a 2000 hours overhaul in 2009.

The current atsc website:

http://www.atsc.com.my/

Both sites above have very nice close-up views of the mig-29Ns.
From what your saying, it shows that the Mig29 still have plenty of life left in its airframe. So its probably not wise to retire them just yet. Perhaps the MAF should give the planes a final complete upgrade to bring it on level terms with the Mig29-M2 standard. The mig could be our testbed for new technologies, as ATSC seems very knowledgable of this aircraft n seems very capable of maintaining new features on it.

A New glass cockpit, AESA radar from MIG, powerfull ECM, new powerfull engines, RAM coating, n AGM weapons will make it more than a match to most planes in the regions air force.

On a side note, what does the contract on Mig 29 purchase say about MAF doing upgrades on its own using western components?
 

qwerty223

New Member
How do you know you know the 9X needs a more sophisticate upgrade on both software and hardware. I'm asking you how do know that?
Ok. Now i get you.
Well, it tracks back years ago when i read about it on the Global Security AIM-9X page. From there i start to have a clue whats the difference between. the M and the X model. Later i found that in compare to what Raytheon did in the past by replacing same parts with updated ones, X model actually has a vast redesign on the data computing, data transfer and mechanism of the missile. As a person working in a related field, such a redesign will required the launcher platform to have an intensive upgrade on the software, computer, data link, and possible mechanism redesign. Not to mention it will be a waste if we acquired X model without JHMCS. But then, thats more work to be done before the cuing system can be integrated.
 

qwerty223

New Member
From what your saying, it shows that the Mig29 still have plenty of life left in its airframe. So its probably not wise to retire them just yet. Perhaps the MAF should give the planes a final complete upgrade to bring it on level terms with the Mig29-M2 standard. The mig could be our testbed for new technologies, as ATSC seems very knowledgable of this aircraft n seems very capable of maintaining new features on it.

A New glass cockpit, AESA radar from MIG, powerfull ECM, new powerfull engines, RAM coating, n AGM weapons will make it more than a match to most planes in the regions air force.

On a side note, what does the contract on Mig 29 purchase say about MAF doing upgrades on its own using western components?
Well, a majority of ppl claims that the maintenance cost is way higher than its output. And therefore to retire the MiGs as early as possible and shift the allocated funds for the MiGs to another brand new squadron of a/c is the way to go. Anyways, i hold my position on it. :)
 

ROCK45

New Member
9x

Hi qwerty223
Thanks for getting back to me

As a person working in a related field, such a redesign will required the launcher platform to have an intensive upgrade on the software, computer, data link, and possible mechanism redesign.
The way you wrote the above it sounds like the redesign hasn't taken place yet?

Not to mention it will be a waste if we acquired X model without JHMCS. But then, thats more work to be done before the cuing system can be integrated.
I thought the above was complete on the E/F Hornets and was operational? You might not know but are there operational cuing systems + JHMCS on any Eagle and Viper squadrons?

Sorry for the basic questions I just assume all of American front line units have the 9x operational but starting to think that's not the case.

Thanks
 

qwerty223

New Member
Hi qwerty223
Thanks for getting back to me


The way you wrote the above it sounds like the redesign hasn't taken place yet?
Do you mean RMAF's Hornet Ds? they had if not, are undergoing upgrades on the software and possible some computer parts, not sure about other hardware thou. While the missiles where being upgrade to a later M version.

I thought the above was complete on the E/F Hornets and was operational? You might not know but are there operational cuing systems + JHMCS on any Eagle and Viper squadrons?

Sorry for the basic questions I just assume all of American front line units have the 9x operational but starting to think that's not the case.

Thanks
I have no idea whats the status of the X model in service with USAF, maybe some other members can answer you these questions.
 

qwerty223

New Member
A mig-29 is designed for something like 3000 to 4000 flight hours in terms of airframe life (though with proper maintenance, can be extended to 7-8000 hours).

If one translates that over 30 years, that will be ~240+ hours annually. Having 2 crews per aircraft means each crew gets ~120 hours per year. Anything more means faster attrition.

Also, many of the Migs were grounded due to lack of spares. This ironically may preserve airframe life. However, the Migs are probably due for an overhaul soon.

The pilots may also be getting extra hours on the hawks & F5s.
I just recalled an article i read months ago. Was an short interview with one of the unnamed director of the ATSC. A few points there:
1. A new plant had been established in-cooperate of ATSC & Russian counterpart to manufacture parts, repair parts that were unable to do it locally and hence cut cost save time.
2. Among the 16 Fulcrum, 4 had flight time exceed 1000hr, 12 between 800-1000. Every Fulcrum had an average of 15hr flight time per month.
3. Fulcrum pilots are indeed facing shortage as some of them were transfered to the MKM squadron.
4. The latest contact between ATSC and RMAF is due to April 4th, 2010.
5. MiG had been proposing a joint venture on behalf of SMT upgrade, while Belarus counterpart proposed MiG-29BM upgrade.
Link (sorry its in chinese)
 

qwerty223

New Member
Where did Belarus come in from? Isnt the plane only manufacturer is Russia?
And what is Mig29BM modification?
Well anyone can propose an upgrade for Russian made aircraft. There is not much restriction as the product from the US. As of the Belarus BM, i have no idea what exactly they offer. However as a former state of USSR they did inherit quite some tech labs and related establishments. Might not be outstanding, but no doubt they are able to offer the Fulcrum some modification.
 

ROCK45

New Member
Belarus

Belarus is a major arms producer both past and current just Google them and you're see tons of stuff there such happy exporters of weapons. They sold Peru some Mig-29s I think in late 90s. qwerty223 you are correct they did inherit many factories and had plenty of leftover weapons from the "Cold War" days.
 

nevidimka

New Member
i cant find anything on Mig29BM modificaton. Also i would like to know is the Mig29 Engines that RMAF received, downrated export version engines or the highest powered engine at the time of export?

The capabilities that ATSC accumulated seems to be of waste if its not put to any use on the aircraft other than maintanence. Plus the Mig29 is an extremely capable airframe, its quite sad if its not exploited to its full potential.
Also if the Migs are maintenance intensive, then what about those F5's still in service?
 

ROCK45

New Member
Mig-29N

The RMAF Mig-29N were slightly custom made Fulcrums from what I remember there's something different or better on them then the SE types. Sadly I can't remember what it was maybe Chrom would know, I'm thinking radar, weapons system, because they were rated a better. The engine were most likely just pulled from the batch of 90 going to Iraq that got canceled. I think the slightly improve engines types came out a little later.

nevidimka
Plus the Mig29 is an extremely capable airframe, its quite sad if its not exploited to its full potential.
I agree 100% never felt the Fulcrum was push to the edge by skilled pilots in a well maintain aircraft. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think in every engagement not only were they outnumbered to NATO/US Air Force forces but they didn't have the benefit of AWACS support either.

nevidimka
Also if the Migs are maintenance intensive, then what about those F5's still in service?
I have heard that Mig-29s were high maintenance aircraft they were built during a time when long lasting designs weren't needed. The basic design features were take off quickly and climb and wait until ground base controller would point them toward incoming enemy aircraft. Fire missiles and RTB, sounds to simple but basically they were short range point defense fighters. Russia realized later on that they had something good and that the Fulcrum could be more then a point defense fighter. Sadly there Air Force didn't buy into it the way they did the Flanker and was never brought along like for example like the different F-16 Blocks upgrades.

The F-5 was a great aircraft and had good maintenance rep but sadly it's old and pasted it's time. Brazil AF still does very well with there F-5s but have a good aircraft industry to support them plus datalink + AWACS. Chile also has modern F-5s as well I think the Israeli's upgraded them but changing over the the F-16 Block-52 and pick up a number of Ex-Holland A/B Vipers, not sure what Block or exact numbers.
 

qwerty223

New Member
i cant find anything on Mig29BM modificaton. Also i would like to know is the Mig29 Engines that RMAF received, downrated export version engines or the highest powered engine at the time of export?

The capabilities that ATSC accumulated seems to be of waste if its not put to any use on the aircraft other than maintanence. Plus the Mig29 is an extremely capable airframe, its quite sad if its not exploited to its full potential.
Also if the Migs are maintenance intensive, then what about those F5's still in service?
Regarding the engines status, such detail info is hardly to be public.

ATSC still have a bright future in biding the alternative hub for the MKMs and even 2nd batch MRCA.

MiG-29BM is not a rare designation. It will soon be the standard upgrade for Belarus AF's MiG-29s. Link
However i have no idea what exactly they offer.
 

ROCK45

New Member
Mig-29 BM

A few things on the Mig-29 BM i found


http://www.aviapedia.com/photos/v/sasans23/MIG-29BM+3.JPG.html

___________________________________________________________________
I did find this
Flight tests of the upgraded MiG-29BM airplane have been completed in the Byelorussian air force, they reported to Interfax at Byelorussia’s air force and air defense troops information center.
According to the agency source, the upgrade of this airplane will allow increasing the fleet of strike aircraft without new purchases of aircraft equipment owing to the reequipping of the fighter airplanes already on hand.
They noted at the information center that "the range of weapons being used has been broadened significantly all the way up to precision arms” on the MiG-29BM.
"Because of the financial inability to obtain and use various types of combat airplanes, Byelorussian aviation is placing the emphasis on the creation of an aircraft fleet of a multirole nature,” they emphasized at the center.
They also reported there that the upgrade of the MiG-29BM was carried out by not only Byelorussian forces, but also Russian enterprises. The 558th aircraft repair plant (Baranovichi) was the lead enterprise, at whose base upgrade will take place upgrade of the MiG-29 in the Byelorussian military’s inventory.
Source: 21.07.03, Inter
http://www.royfc.com/news/jul/2103jul06.html



Belarus modernizes MiG-29s.(European Reports)(Brief Article)
From:
Journal of Electronic Defense
Date:
September 1, 2003
Author:
Fiszer, Michal; Gruszczynski, Jerzy
More results for:
MiG-29BM
| Copyright information

In July the Belarussian Air Force completed trials of its modernized MiG-29, designated the MiG-29BM, which can be seen as a strike variant of the pure fighter. Some changes were made to the N019 radar and OEPS-29 electro-optical system to improve air-to-ground attack capabilities. A modernized fire-control system increased the accuracy of unguided weapons delivery. The MiG-29BM also received a new mission computer, as well as new cockpit displays. The aircraft also received air-refueling probes for increased range.
The MiG-29BM carries a wider range of guided and unguided air-to-ground weapons. It is almost a certainty that Kh-29T TV-guided missiles can now be carried. It ...

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-107898093.html
 

ROCK45

New Member
More Mig-29 BM

Just found this old article pretty cool set some records too.

&quotBelarus" online edition, www.belarus-magazine.by
Belarusian pilots set 15 world records flying modernised fighter MiG-29BM. Just recently the Belarusian Aircraft Sport Federation received a confirmation that all the records set by the army pilots had been approved and entered the official book of world records of the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale. After diplomas were awarded, the correspondent met with the record-breakers.

So, meet ace pilot, chief of the flight test station of the 558th aircraft repairs plant Colonel Alexander Bochkarev, first class pilot, chief air traffic safety inspector of the Belarusian Air Force and Air Defence Lieutenant Colonel Vyacheslav Brovchenko and first class pilot, chief navigator of the navigation service of the 61st air fighter base Lieutenant Colonel Yuri Kovalev. They set over dozen world records in four flights — time to climb to a height and speed over a closed circuit.

Of course, records are not easy to come by. The pilots worked hard to get fit for that. First, on the ground using a flight simulator recently acquired by the army. Over 150 times the pilots rose into the virtual sky to perfect flight routines. After making sure the record-breaking is feasible in the real sky, they decided to demonstrate capabilities of the Russian fighter, which had been modernised by a Belarusian company, to official observers of the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale.

“We had no doubt we’d be successful,” said Colonel Alexander Bochkarev. “Actually MiG-29 is a fine aircraft. After the modernisation its capabilities neared those of the fifth generation of aircraft. If previously the fighter’s correctness of arrival at a destination point varied up to 700 metres, after a modern navigation system was installed the figure shrank almost 10-fold! An improved targeting and navigation system as well as the in-flight refuelling capability made MiG-29BM a multipurpose aircraft with hugely expanded battle application area”.

“Which record was the hardest to break?” I asked the pilots.

“Perhaps, the flight speed over a 100km closed circuit, because the fuel amount was fixed,” reckons Vyacheslav Brovchenko. “Colonel Bochkarev did just fine!”

“For us like sportsmen the most important thing is assigning the required amount of efforts for every stage. In our case it was the flying program. If there is an error, victory is not an option,” explains Alexander Bochkarev. “And the flight itself did not differ much from others. Maybe, just the fact that there was additional measuring equipment on board and on the ground”.

Lieutenant Colonel Brovchenko, who set 12 out of the 15 world records, sees nothing special in his “sky races”.

“Just usual, simple good work with maximum attention paid. Some flights were supposed to break several records at a time,” he explains.

Later a modernised MiG-29BM was on show at the international aviation and space salon MAKS 2005 in Moscow and evoked much interest of representatives of many countries. Today this aircraft together with a modernised Su-27UBM, which was modernised by the same 558th aircraft repairs plant and caused an uproar at the international arms expo MILEX-2005, are on duty in the Belarusian air fighters fleet.

Asked whether the pilots would be ready to break their own records if MiG-29BM had been modernised more profoundly, they said, “First the mastery of the existing capabilities should be perfected, then we will see…”

by Viktor Semakov

http://www.belarus-magazine.by/print.php?id=1149590593&archive=1154002040
 

qwerty223

New Member
My understanding is that once the Su-30 squadron is in place, the F-5 squadron will be disbanded.

That would explain why the F-5s were never upgraded (even though there are a lot of upgrade packages out there).

It would also be interesting to see if the RF-5s will be maintained in service. My opinion is that it may be replaced by UAVs eg Eagle which is cheaper and cost-effective.

A 2nd squadron of Su-30s or F18s will enable the RMAF to take advantage of the increasing pilot numbers from the new trainers.

If oil prices stay at this level (which is likely) and the BN successfully reduces its fuel subsidies, there might be sufficient funds to afford not only the 2nd squadron but also the long overdue AEW aircraft.
Well, i see S.Hornet is coming very close. A Hornet WSO in the LIMA hint that JDAM and AASM caught the heart of our AF chiefs.

Regarding the UAV, i am sure it wouldn't be the TUAV unveil earlier. And you mention Eagle, do you mean Eagle ARV? If so then its quite interesting. I think if its an UAV, Global Hawk may have a good chance.

With pratical experience with a good sample, it may well speed up our development progress.

And, i also found an interesting article reporting the Universiti Putra Malaysia’s (UPM) Department of Aerospace Engineering, is developing an UAV coded as the UPMX. It had gone through several tasked test flight. Does anyone know about this development?
BTW, Link
 
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