RMAF Future; need opinions

Scorpion82

New Member
so was the prototype repainted and later delivered to malaysia?really interesting to know if the MkM was indeed 04 blue at one time and performed at MAKS! :p:
There was no repainting and no delivery of the aircraft. Do you think Malaysia would accept a years old used airframe as new one? The Su-30MKI pre-production aircraft were built around 2000/2001 and after fulfilling their purposes as MKI testbeds they are now used as testbeds for other versions like the MKM. The 05 in Malaysian service is for sure not the 05 test aircraft.
 

aztechx

New Member
There was no repainting and no delivery of the aircraft. Do you think Malaysia would accept a years old used airframe as new one? The Su-30MKI pre-production aircraft were built around 2000/2001 and after fulfilling their purposes as MKI testbeds they are now used as testbeds for other versions like the MKM. The 05 in Malaysian service is for sure not the 05 test aircraft.
oww..now everything seems to come into sense..thansk for the info..i know for sure as well that the malaysian 05 is not the same plane as the 05 blue..6 airplanes arrived into the RMAF before the LIMA airshow and were given tail numbers 01-06.. :)


In your 1st post you made reference to Item #3 being "ECM in the tail boom."

Is it not the same as Eurofighter Typhoon (pictured in the link below), where the drouge chute is stored ??

Systems Adict
are you referring to the ECMs on the tailfins or the tailbooms?beacause u quoted a picture of item 4 which was showing the slanted tailfins on the MkM..but still,i dont know the answer to either of the question..sorry.. :p
anyone?
 

nevidimka

New Member
This illustrates the various ECM,ESM that were fitted on the SU 30 MKM. But its in french but i think you can get the idea.
 

aztechx

New Member
guys..i just read in a magazine about the RMAFs interest in purchasing the aerial version of the indian supersonic cruise missile,brahmos..anyone can clarify on this?

another thing is,its been years since we started talking about getting an AEWC platform..and talks on the erieye seems to have died down already..what is in the mind of the rmaf actually?
 

paskal

New Member
guys..i just read in a magazine about the RMAFs interest in purchasing the aerial version of the indian supersonic cruise missile,brahmos..anyone can clarify on this?

another thing is,its been years since we started talking about getting an AEWC platform..and talks on the erieye seems to have died down already..what is in the mind of the rmaf actually?
about the BRAHAMOS, there have been talks going on but still no deal clinch yet.
The front runners in SEA of purchasing the missle is indonesia and malaysia.
Singapore have also been offered but i think they will stick to their american weapons.
Malaysia will get the AEWC but i think it will be in the RMK 10 plan [200-2015]
The front runners is the SAAB 2000 and the EMBARER like being used by the BRAZIL and MEXICAN airforce.
The RMAF also havent fullfilled the requirement of another batch of MRCA.
 

qwerty223

New Member
Agreed that Brahmos is a weapon that will trigger the region competition to another level of tension. Since we are still a defensive force, I would like to see we are not the 1st to introduce such a weapon.
 

Mr Ignorant

New Member
Trouble is, there is the FPDA. All signatory nations including Singapore and Malaysia follow the general principles of this particular treaty, correct me anyone if I am wrong.

The RMAF itself is a pretty small bit part player in the region, and never did it attempt in the past to target Singapore and Brunei. The thing is, in the 60s and 70s the RMAF were extensively 'tutored' and 'certified' by the RAF and I believe, the RAAF, but the arrangement was temporary and not envisaged for the long term. I would say RMAF pilot quality has constantly been criticised, and no more so by an ex RMAF pilot friend of mine.

Otherwise, what is the point of having SU 30MKM's if you don't have the best pilots? In those days, even selection to the short service commission course was one of the toughest in the World. Nowadays, some despair the loss of skills and training brought by the RAF.

In terms of aircraft, well, this is limited. A handful of F5s, a score of Mig 29s, some Hawks and 2 wings of FA 18s, constitute the working backbone of the RMAF Interceptor aircraft. It is clear that the RMAF are thinking of just one type that would satisfy it's requirements, and this so happens to be the Sukhoi. And since the first 18 aircraft of this type represent the initial batch, I won't be surprised if the Defence Ministry plumps for more orders. Najib going as far as to publicly state that the MIGs would only be retained to 2010!

If this is the trend, then the RMAF may just opt for the Sukhoi in more numbers, some 40-50 in the first 20 years, before another flavour of the month is glossed over on defence magazines.

The other issue is of course, missiles and Technological Transfer. i doubt it if KL can put in place a localised aircraft industry on the scale of HAL in India, but considering the package includes a Sukhoi service centre in Malaysia, then it means that the service is going Sukhoi.

With regards to the Hawks, FA 18s and Migs in the current inventory, I reckon the Malaysians would just mothball these as they did with the remaining A4s, when the time comes. In a way, it's not a bad idea to progress on, but essentially, as one RMAF vet put it, is 'pilot quality'.

Bring back tougher selection tests, drop any prejudices and choose, nurture and train the best pilots again. The first point would be to re-establish some form of training again with the RAF (as the Indians have done so already) and learn to be humble again.

That a good thought?
 
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aneep

New Member
i have no idea where u get your info (i'm thinking, the newspapers, which IMO are horrible in getting the correct info across most of the time)
RMAF have always maintained the training with RAF and RAAF

regards,
 

Mr Ignorant

New Member
i have no idea where u get your info (i'm thinking, the newspapers, which IMO are horrible in getting the correct info across most of the time)
RMAF have always maintained the training with RAF and RAAF

regards,
Does the RMAF continue to train with the RAF and RAAF? From what I've been told, they most certainly did in the recent past, about a generation ago, but the pilot selection and training now are done without RAF monitoring and supervision the service had in the past.

But is there any merit in sending a select group of young RMAF pilots to England for flight training as the IAF does so now?? We can view it as an excellent scholarship for eligible and highly suitable RMAF candidates on course for Fighter pilot schools, and off course retain our flight schools in Malaysia, but would that be so off putting a suggestion?

And if it is anything to go by, I picked this up from random conversations I had with an ex RMAF pilot. Can there be more than just a hint that our pilots now are just not good enough???

After all, training is for life.
 

Mr Ignorant

New Member
You can check out the Airforce Technology website, and scroll down to the F/A 18 there.

In the Malaysian context - There's a fear that this type is far too expensive to justify the purchase of large numbers - including the cost and permission to use the Missiles and what not feature the aircraft brings. More expedient to go Sukhoi.
 

Mr Ignorant

New Member
India to train Malaysian Air Force pilots
Posted : Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:03:07 GMT
Author : IANS
Category : India (World)
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India World News | Home
New Delhi, Jan 4 - The training in India of Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) pilots and the regional and global situation will feature high on the agenda during Defence Minister A.K. Antony's three-day trip to Malaysia from Sunday.

Antony's visit is seen as a reinforcement of New Delhi's Look East policy and an effort to counter China's influence in Southeast and East Asia.

Significantly, three of Antony's four visits abroad since assuming office 15 months ago have been to this region - Singapore (June 2007), Vietnam (December 2007) and now to Malaysia.

He travelled to Russia in October for the annual meeting of the two defence ministers.

Antony will meet Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah bin Haji Ahmad Badawi among other leaders. According to an official, the street protests by Tamils of Indian origin in Malaysia and the government response is likely to be discussed.

India and Malaysia last month signed a protocol on training of RMAF pilots on their Sukhoi Su-30MKM aircraft by the Indian Air Force (IAF), which operates the MKI version of the jet. There are a number of similarities between the two fighters that Russia is custom-building for both countries.

'This protocol has to be taken forward and will be one of the issues Antony will discuss with Malaysian leaders,' the official said.

The protocol builds on the memorandum of understanding (MoU) state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) signed in May 2007 with the Malaysian defence ministry for the technical training of RMAF personnel on Su-30MKM aircraft.

A high-level delegation including Defence Secretary Vijay Singh, Advisor Sundaram Krishna, Indian Army deputy chief Lt. Gen. Z.U. Shah, Indian Air Force deputy chief Air Marshal N.A.K. Browne, principal staff officer at naval headquarters, Vice Admiral K.N. Sushil and Joint Secretary (South) external affairs ministry Biren Nanda will accompany Antony.

Antony will hold detailed discussions with his Malaysian counterpart and Deputy Prime Minister Mohammad Najib Bin Tun Hajiabdul Razak and Foreign Minister Ahmed Syed Hamid Albar.

Antony will also visit Penang, where he will meet Governor Haji Abdul Rahman bin Haji Abbas.

'Malaysia is celebrating the 50th anniversary of its independence. The current year also marks the 50th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries,' a defence ministry statement Friday said.
 

aztechx

New Member
The impetus for the AEWC aircraft arose in 2002 as a result of Chinese activities in the Spratley islands. I think we can understand the benefits of having an AEWC over that part of the region. Funds were meant to be diverted from the A400M programme.

The Erieye was considered in 2003/04 as the most likely candidate but there were issues over the base plane.

The urgency for the AEWC has since died down over the Chinese accession to the treaty of amity. Also, the introduction of the Sukhoi enables at least a better radar coverage of the region.

You might want to read this regarding the impact of China in South East Asia.


We might see some interesting developments in April at DSA 2008.
a pretty interesting read u have there..but imo,sooner or later the AEWC will be needed by the RMAF..singapore has their hawkeyes while thailand can further enhance their gripen capabilities with the erieye..it will only be a matter of time before we get ours..i think the further delay in this AEWC purchase is because of the urgent need to replace the ageing Nuris..they already mentioned about it being a priority..just hope they dont get anymore Mi-17..enough that the bomba has it,very capable but very ugly at the same time.. :p

and good to know that our pilots might get the oppurtunities to train with the more experienced indian pilots..would do us alot of good with the MkM now in our inventory..
 
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