Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

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swerve

Super Moderator
...about the Camcopter S-100 UAV
Any effective sensors that weigh 25-50KG?

For a 6 hour, 130 KM range, 25-50 kg payload this UAV does not sound a good deal for the navy. At 400,000$ it sounds like another under the table payoff deal.

Was VTOL, a point that the navy preferred?
For operations off small vessels, VTOL is very valuable. There are other customers already, & competition in that weight range, being evaluated by various navies including the RN.

Yes, there are plenty of effective sensors at or below that weight. You can buy an AESA synthetic aperture radar that weighs 10 kg, designed specifically for smallish UAVs - the Selex PicoSAR - as well as a variety of electro-optical sensors.
 

Firehorse

Banned Member
Wary of China, India to boost eastern naval fleet
http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-30499920071114
KOLKATA, India (Reuters) - India will strengthen its naval fleet on the eastern front, the regional commander said on Wednesday, adding destroyers and frigates among other ships, in an apparent move to counter Chinese interest in the region.

Over the next five years or so, India's plans include stationing an aircraft carrier in the Bay of Bengal along with at least half of the 32 new warships and six submarines India plans to add to its fleet, Vice Admiral Raman Suthan said in Kolkata.

The announcement comes a few months after India's air force said it would strengthen its presence in the east, adding new fighter jets and moving two squadrons of 36 state-of-the-art Russian-built Sukhoi-30 aircraft to the area.

They are also adding advanced helicopters, strengthening runways and upgrading other air force facilities - an apparent move to counter China's might.

"China has fuel interests of its own as fuel lines from Africa and the Gulf run through these waters, and so they are also building up their navy," Suthan said on board INS Sukanya, a naval warship at the Kolkata dockyard.

India has air and naval bases and listening posts across the eastern region. It considers the eastern sea routes vital to its security.

Many Indian defence experts believe that China has military or intelligence facilities on Myanmar's Coco Islands, a few miles away from India's Diglipur, 185 km north of Port Blair, capital of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

"We keep hearing about China's interest in Coco Island and are wary of its growing interest in the region, and we are keeping a close watch," Suthan said.

Although Suthan said he believed China had no facilities on Coco, he said the navy could not let its guard down.

"The naval fleet in east India has long legs and, with the government's emphasis on the look east policy, we are strengthening east now," Suthan added.
I think that India will also deploy cvs to W.Pac in the future.
 

funtz

New Member
I think that India will also deploy cvs to W.Pac in the future.
If the navy is lucy enough to get 3 aircraft carriers and the associated vessles to form the carrier groups there will be one carrier with the fleet and an assurance of always having two carriers operational.
What possible advantage will be around the western pacific ocean region.
 

funtz

New Member
Delay In Ins Vikramaditya

DELAY IN INS VIKRAMADITYA
Ministry of Defence
16:14 IST

Lok Sabha

The overall progress of repair and re-equipping of the ship, ex-Admiral Gorshkov, in Russia is slow.

The Russian side has submitted a revised Master Schedule indicating a delay in the project. The Russian side has attributed the delays to “Growth of Work”.

In order to supervise the project for repair and re-equipping of the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (earlier called Admiral Gorshkov), an apex level committee under Defence Secretary and a Steering Committee under a Vice Admiral have been set up. A team has also been stationed at the shipyard where the repair and re-equipping work is going on. From time to time, teams comprising senior officers are also sent to monitor progress of the project. The matters are also taken up between the two countries at appropriate level.

This information was given by the Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri Uday Singh in Lok Sabha today.
http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=32765

An apex committee under defence secretary, a steering committee under a vice admiral.
A team stationed in Russia to see the progress first hand.

With a tight budget that is over stretched as it is i hoped the Navy would have done all of this before ordering the ship, oh well hope the Navy has learned the lesson.

Hope the MiG-29Ks will be delivered by the time the AC arrives.

On another note, how does someone make errors in refitting their own ship?
 

Firehorse

Banned Member
Why do you think that?
To outflank China, and to reassure Japan & Taiwan that they are not a paper tiger!
..The Indian Navy has countered these moves by setting up a Far Eastern Naval Command (F.E.N.C.) facility off Port Blair on the Andaman Islands. F.E.N.C. can monitor China's naval activities in the region and expand India's naval power projection capabilities into the Malacca Straits and the South China Sea region. http://www.iiss.org/whats-new/iiss-...2006/the-emerging-cold-war-on-asias-high-seas
Taiwan, India Develop Military Ties

BTW, the Brazilian navy may soon get a nuclear submarine. http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/10003/1/

How about Brazil's friend India? IMO, for them it will make a lot of sense to get more survivable SSBNs as 2nd strike platforms, given that the PLAN already has a few!

India Pursuing Blue Water Navy, Ballistic Missile Sub
June 7, 2004 :: Defense News :: News
India has the ambition to join the other great powers of the world in having a blue water ballistic missile submarines, according to a story in Defense News. India’s recent adoption of a new military doctrine aimed at the acquisition of such vessels could help to counterbalance China’s own military buildup, detailed in the DoD report released last week. India is already planning to lease a Russian Akula-class sub, but will soon develop its own vessels.
The report does not specify what sort of ballistic missiles an Indian submarine may carry, but one sea launched ballistic missile India has been working on is the Dhanush.
http://www.missilethreat.com/missilesoftheworld/id.38/missile_detail.asp
I wonder what's the current status of this, 3.5 years later?
 

funtz

New Member
BTW, the Brazilian navy may soon get a nuclear submarine. http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/10003/1/
How about Brazil's friend India? IMO, for them it will make a lot of sense to get more survivable SSBNs as 2nd strike platforms, given that the PLAN already has a few!
I wonder what's the current status of this, 3.5 years later?
The status of the nuclear submarine in media is about as dark as it was then, a stable platform that is effective and provides the necessary depth must be always required.


Project Update: The first boat is expected to be launched sometime in 2008, followed by sea trials in 2009-10 and commissioning in 2011-12.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/ATV.html
Maseeh Rahman in Delhi
Tuesday September 11, 2007
The Guardian

After several setbacks, the top secret military programme appears to be nearing completion, and the nuclear submarine, codenamed the Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV), is expected to undergo sea trials next year before its induction into the Indian navy in 2009.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/nuclear/article/0,,2166610,00.html

Media Release
Jul. 9, 2006
"Here we have developed a non-hull penetrating technology to remove cumbersome periscopes from submarines. And we are ready to offer this technology for India's upgraded Kilo class submarines and its Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV)," Peter Mcbride, Director Naval exports of the company said.
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/10872.asp

why there is apparently a tv media report on the topic on you tube
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9zl-37AUVQ&feature=related"]YouTube - Advanced Technology Vessel[/ame]

However i could find no specific statements from the officials.

To outflank China, and to reassure Japan & Taiwan that they are not a paper tiger!
Taiwan, India Develop Military Ties
Why would one need to reassure Japan and Taiwan, and moves for cold war maneuvering and posturing can prove to be too expensive, its more vital (in my opinion) to utilize the resources to ensure the security of the vital trade routes in all scenarios.

Even the addition of one carrier group to each fleets in the east and west (3 for some sort of always 2 operational deal) will not be easy, there is a carrier group experience for some time now, and i guess it will take some time to have a stable 2 carrier group navy that can use these resources effectively. Afterall a carrier group and associated activities must be more complex than buying a car and driving it.

Once a stable 2 carrier group navy is there with the hopefully improving economy and a stalemate in the strategic/diplomatic situation in Asia (threat scenario and perception not changing), i guess further naval objectives might include power projection, that might just be too far down the line. Someone more informed and involved might wish to share his/her views somewhere, the interview available on you tube in the post above might help.

I guess more immediate developments might include strategic partnerships with different nations.
 
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funtz

New Member
The Russians have offered the Admiral Sergei Gorshkov class design, to the Indians for their 17A frigate project.
Quoting this report perhaps

Russia offers a new Admiral Sergei Gorshkov to India
31 March 2007

Russia has offered India the export version of its new Project 22350 frigate as part of a tender for the construction of seven ships. The Russian offer is in response to a Request for Information (RFI), issued by India to about a dozen European, Russian and American shipyards in December last year.


The RFI is the first formal step in the process of military acquisition.

According to Indian defence industry sources, the proposed acquisition of these seven ships may well be worth more than Rs30,000 crore.


At the time the RFI was issued, the then newly anointed chief of the Indian naval staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta had said that the proposed acquisition was meant to offset the delay in the acquisition of modern equipment by the Indian Navy that had occurred over the past two decades.


This delay, Mehta said, were due to constraints on defence budgets and other factors, as also the inability of Indian shipyards to deliver ships on time.
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/20070331_offers.htm

I think the very name Goshkov will raise quite some eyebrows now with the very famous delays, the navy goes on and on about the slow pace of modernization in all the news reports that can be seen, the recent delay reports might factor in future procurements.
If this project is alloted the above quoted figure of 30,000 crore Rs which will be by this hour about 7.59 billion dollars the navy might decide some other design.

The Hindu
Friday, Aug 17, 2007
Navy’s initiative to get stealth frigates
The RFI was issued last December to a number of Russian, European and American shipyards for building one vessel in an international shipyard and six in India, most probably at the Mazagon Dock Limited, Mumbai, or the Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers, Kolkata.

The Navy’s initiative comes in the wake of the inability of the Indian shipyards to deliver on time, and on account of delays in acquiring modern equipment in the past two decades due to constraints on defence budgets.
http://www.hindu.com/2007/08/17/stories/2007081762291700.htm

This is a old report from aug. however again filled with Irony, if the Indian shipyards are not delivering on time how on earth building 6 ships of the project at home will speed things up, what could be the nature of these delays?

Project 22350 FFG thread:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5587&page=2

The navy it seems will get a lot of money over the coming decades, they even submitted a grand plan this month to get the shipbuilding industry going, i think newer ships, bigger ships, indigenous production(eventually design) was the call (along with the huge need of supertankers by 2025, if the oil keeps on flowing i assume).
 

funtz

New Member
The navy chief on a news channel

On the gorshkov deal
“There should be no escalation at all.”
“Virat can run for 7-8 more years
Virat on steroids for another 7 years, man that will look pathetic.
The sea harriers might just disappear by then, judging by the way at least 1 goes missing every year, I guess helicopters will be all that will run.
If the deal falls through, the MiG 29K will never see the carrier action, until its utilized for the Russian Navy.

On the Nuclear submarine:
“on the final threshold, 2 years or so”
Second line of Submarines:
“In the process of getting approvals, will go global”.
More money for the global industry, at least some one will be happy.

http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/53379/russia-hikes-aircraft-price-india-refuses-to-buy-it.html?xml
 

sebenez

New Member
Titanium Alloy Pressing For Submarine

A recent article in a leading daily in india suggest that the "hush-hush" project in chugging along smoothly, but that's about it, no further details were given

A friend in the circles says that the security around the shipyard is very very tight, no body can go past.

Industrial giant L&T are also a contractor in the project
that's all i know
YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. K.R.R.ENGINEERING PVT LTD, CHENNAI (E-Mail: [email protected]) IS PRESSING TITANIUM ALLOY FOR THE SUBMARINE FABRICATED BY L&T, RANOLI. KRR IS SPECIALISED IN MULTI-PROFILE PRESSING OF DISHED ENDS AND TORICONES FOR NUCLEAR REACTORS OF THE 500MWe POWER PLANT COMING UP IN KALPAKKAM, NEAR CHENNAI.

[Mod edit] Two things -
Do not type in all capitals. It's impolite (akin to shouting) & harder to read than normal use of lower & upper case.
Your posts read suspiciously like advertisements. Do you have any connection with this firm? Any repetition of such posts will lead to termination of your account.

PJI
 
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funtz

New Member
See your in the marketing div. Ah! :D

more news in the papers about the IAC

Navy chief: Russia has to honour Gorshkov deal
1 Dec 2007, 0343 hrs IST,Rajat Pandit,TNN


"It's a fixed price contract arising out of an inter-governmental agreement. It's an obligation of the Russian government to provide us with the warship, with the characteristics laid down in the contract," said Admiral Mehta.

"They now tell us they have come across some unforeseen requirements in the modernisation work on the carrier...discussions are being held to arrive at some conclusion soon," he added. What he left unsaid was that while India would be ready to pay another $500 million or so extra, an amount like $1.2 billion will make the project simply unsustainable.

Be that as it may, Navy is planning another refit of its aging but still powerful 28,000-tonne carrier INS Viraat in 2008 to take care of any contingency.

Then, of course, there is the 37,500-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) being built at Cochin Shipyard. But its delivery is likely to be possible only by 2014-2015 or so, instead of the revised deadline of 2012.

The Navy chief, however, is not too much worried. "We are monitoring IAC's progress. It should not be delayed beyond 2012. The second IAC is already on the drawing board. At least three IACs are planned," he said.
IAC: Indigenous Aircraft Carrier.

source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...honour_Gorshkov_deal_/articleshow/2586598.cms

3 IAC, sounds on the lines of the two AC statements by the Navy, this might take till 2020-2025 to come into being, after that depending on the available resources the 3 Aircraft carriers might become a regular feature in the Navy.

In what ways can the 2 Aircraft Carriers with each fleet by 2020 enhance/help the role of the navy in peacetime operations specifically in the region?
 

indian bull

Banned Member
hey funtz please tell if Dhanush can be used as an antiship missile as it is a ballistic missile, as brahmos will be a better option as antiship cruise missile. or it will be used as nuclear tipped tactical weapon, i am really confused how it will be used.:confused:
 

funtz

New Member
Its a ship based launch platform for a ballistic missile(prithvi used for experiments. And a weird experiment

even if some sort of magical terminal stage radar homing warhead is put in it still does not justify wasting a whole ship and the men for a single missle, there are better ways to do the same thing,
similarly for a ship based missile it is too short legged and can not be carried in numbers. The chaps at DRDO claimed that the missile accuratly passed five check point on the way to hitting the target but even then i mean this is a long shot.

More of our tax money down the drain i guess.

It is because of this that i feel that sagarika is a launch platform/system for a ballestic missile from a sub.
 

indian bull

Banned Member
The difference i think is that Dhanush may be used as some tactical nuke weapon to destroy enemy ship formations and major sea shore targets rather than as an antiship missile. So it is not needed in great no.

hey man don't worry about money as it is going to be wasted on some other unfruitful projects if not on defence research.
Sagarika has been tested, i think drdo has acknowleged this, but again no clearity about it as ballistic or a cruise missile.
 

funtz

New Member
Even if its a tactical nuclear weapon for ships, where is the naval formation that we might face, which will justify a full out nuclear weapon, might as well fire them russian anti ship missiles.

Well anyways the defence research into stuff needs to continue, from food rations to space tech. it seems to be a use it or loose it art, and not worth loosing.

I think what was shown in the TV clips was a facility which was designed to simulate a submarine launch for the missile.

That user pic of yours is of the Dhanush based Prithvi launch.
 

indian bull

Banned Member
i mean a subkiloton weapon is a good candidate for dhanush which can be used against a group of enemy ships spread across some distance in the sea.

Yes its dhanush being fired from a ship. Man Dhanush is painted on it and not prithvi.
 

indian bull

Banned Member
read this :-
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Prithvi.html
Dhanush (in Sanskrit/Hindi means Bow) is a system consisting of a stabilization platform (Bow) and the Missile (Arrow). The system can fire either the SS-250 or the SS-350 variants. There may likely be certain customizations in missile configuration to certify it for sea worthiness.

Sagarika and Prithvi-III are two different acronyms for the same missile [2]. A related program, known as Project K-15, is in development and will enable the missile to be launched from a submerged submarine [3].
Also SS-350 variant has a range between 350-1000, it may be a 2 stage missile.
 
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Firehorse

Banned Member
Why would one need to reassure Japan and Taiwan, and moves for cold war maneuvering and posturing can prove to be too expensive, its more vital (in my opinion) to utilize the resources to ensure the security of the vital trade routes in all scenarios.
Just as China some day will deploy to the Indian Ocean, India may reciprocate (by not staying only in the Indian Ocean) sending a CBG to S.China Sea & W. Pacific, if she is to become a global power! In the now closed "sinking carrier" tread I said that having a carrier evens the palying field- an IN CBG near the PRC may reduce PLAN's presense in India's backyard!
 

funtz

New Member
Just as China some day will deploy to the Indian Ocean, India may reciprocate (by not staying only in the Indian Ocean) sending a CBG to S.China Sea & W. Pacific, if she is to become a global power! In the now closed "sinking carrier" tread I said that having a carrier evens the palying field- an IN CBG near the PRC may reduce PLAN's presense in India's backyard!
Well that far in the future is something of a stretch, a navy seems to take a lot of time to expand,
Right now

the 3 indigenous aircraft carriers (see above navy chief comments), Project 15A(3), Project 17(7), Modified Krivak III(3), project 17A(7), project 28(12), 2 more shardul class, the line of French scorpion subs(6), another line of subs to start within 2 years, the indigenous nuclear subs of the ATV(nothing known about them) in 2 years, long-range maritime patrol/antisubmarine warfare aircraft(8).
(All through Bharat Rakshak navy site and the above stated comments of Navy Chief Admiral Suresh Mehta)
are confirmed additions, and a possibility of leased Akula’s via Russia-these might just be hotair like the backfire bombers, i wonder if the reports of indian navy personnel in Russia might just be the navy gearing up for a nuclear submarine instead of leasing some from Russia and may be even some other amphibious operation type vessels/landing ships, any further into future and it might become too speculative.

The Chinese interest in the Oceans around India is obvious, a lot of their trade passes through this area, and they are already cooperating with a host of nations to make sure their presence is firmly established. A move that is not India Specific (well may be to some degree, yes. However not entirely so)

Indian interests are: it’s the only trade route in-to and out-of India. With the energy requirements and trade growing at high rates, proposed infrastructure investments etc. etc. the needs of a stronger and capable navy (and military) arise and can not be ignored, the way one goes about doing this is a matter of opinion for me and a matter of policy/doctrine for the decision makers.

Recently news reports mentioned the steps that the navy has proposed for future of shipbuilding in India
“We have submitted a comprehensive Plan to the government seeking rapid expansion of ship building capacity. We have to graduate to the level of building super tankers and transfer the same technology to warship building,”
“Urgent steps need to be taken to drastically expand the capacity of existing shipyards and more shipyards need to come up,” the Naval Chief Admiral said.
http://www.indianpad.com/story/146345
This shows obvious concerns, and I am sure everyone has similar thoughts about their own field (military or civilian). Even this might be some time into the future.

I do not see the carrier groups (Indian-Navy and PLA-Navy) moving around the region to counter each others presence in the near future, the prime reason being that as of now they do not seem to be floating around in formation.

It might, however that day is quite far away? What do you think 2030-40?

When such obvious strategic movements start at the scale that will have a bearing on the events of that time, i suspect a lot of new relationships will come into picture, and we will have to wait and see how that goes.

As for

India may reciprocate (by not staying only in the Indian Ocean) sending a CBG to S.China Sea & W. Pacific, if she is to become a global power!
May well be, however the superpower 2050 plans that were going around and from which people extrapolate the global power ambitions and the foreign policy/strategic aims, is in-fact a statement for a vision, a goal, that goal includes a host of plans from health care improvement, economic policy, education policy, social reforms, resolving regional disputes etc. etc.

These are things that all nations wish for the future generations and the military part is to ensure a stability that makes all of this possible, instead of an overbearing presence in the region or the world, strategic partnerships are as much a part as anything else.

The effectiveness of the plan and the time line (the still to come 50’s) is more like guidelines instead of deadlines, and to top it all off it is not even something that is projected through the very irritating political propaganda, or the most important thing in national discussions.
 
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