Australian Army Discussions and Updates

FutureTank

Banned Member
Except Vietnam. I believe at one time there were three Australian battalions serving simultaneously, and large numbers of support troops. Certainly for much of the time Australia was in Vietnam there were two battalions deployed together.
5th and 6th RAR served together on their first tour.
The rest of the time two battalions were only together over a period of a few months as a handover.
Between 19th of January and 18th of June 1968 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th RAR were in Vietnam, with 1st, 3rd and 4th serving out together most of the year. However this was the year of the Tet Offensive, or the worst case scenario for that campaign. 4th RAR ended up staying till the end of May 69.

In the worst case scenario closer to home the ADF would be operating mostly alone, or with a possible inclusion of three battalion groups from allied nations. However this deployment was to a land AO of about 2,000km² while worst case scenario would require operating over an area of 1,919,440 km², and largely made up of islands.
 

McTaff

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Does anyone know if there is a provision to operate the new RBS-70s off a mobile platform?
If a warship counts, yes. KANIMBLA class has provision to do so.

As for a light land vehicle, I can't see it firing while mobile. It'd have to have some pretty fancy stabilisation so that the operator could hold the thing steady.

As for firing from stationary position, I'd rather have the thing stowed in the back of any vehicle, rather than fixed in it. Dismount, grab it out, shoot, toss it back in, drive on. If you're limited to the vehicle, then you're liable to be shot at. I'd rather be off hiding in a bit of scrub, myself.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Leopard AS1 turret

Would anyone be able to enlighten me on the rough weight of the turret for the Australian Leopard's turret?
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
If a warship counts, yes. KANIMBLA class has provision to do so.

As for a light land vehicle, I can't see it firing while mobile. It'd have to have some pretty fancy stabilisation so that the operator could hold the thing steady.

As for firing from stationary position, I'd rather have the thing stowed in the back of any vehicle, rather than fixed in it. Dismount, grab it out, shoot, toss it back in, drive on. If you're limited to the vehicle, then you're liable to be shot at. I'd rather be off hiding in a bit of scrub, myself.
Yes, I meant for land use. No, I did not expect a stabilised on the move firing ;)
However, here http://www.army-technology.com/projects/rbs70/ it is shown firing off a truck and an APC.
The SAAB site says "RBS 70 has been developed as a complete missile system with the potential for being integrated with most wheeled and tracked vehicles"
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Not too sure, but i think LeFlaSys/Ozelot/ASRAD-R (which can be equipped with RBS-70) can fire-on-the-move. Just mobile - of course.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Not too sure, but i think LeFlaSys/Ozelot/ASRAD-R (which can be equipped with RBS-70) can fire-on-the-move. Just mobile - of course.
There is a picture of an ASRAD-R mounted on what appears to be an M113 firing a Bolide missile which is a development of the RBS-70. This link has more information about both the Bolide missile and the ASRAD-R (Advanced Short Range Air Defence Missile System) which seems to be a modular system that can be installed on different types of platforms.

-Cheers
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
There is a picture of an ASRAD-R mounted on what appears to be an M113 firing a Bolide missile which is a development of the RBS-70. This link has more information about both the Bolide missile and the ASRAD-R (Advanced Short Range Air Defence Missile System) which seems to be a modular system that can be installed on different types of platforms.

-Cheers
The ADF is purchasing a Bolide version of RBS-70. However this is what I'm asking. Is there a provision to mount it on a mobile platform such as a truck, a Bushmaster or a modified M113 (there are some surplus in storage).
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
The ADF is purchasing a Bolide version of RBS-70. However this is what I'm asking. Is there a provision to mount it on a mobile platform such as a truck, a Bushmaster or a modified M113 (there are some surplus in storage).
ASRAD-R is the launching system for the Bolide (or one of them at least) and given the photos it seems to already have been integrated onto some vehicles. Not sure if they were test, prototype or one-off builds, but it does demonstrate that it can be done. Also I believe the Bolide is a larger/heavier version of the RBS-70 manpad, as such, not such a great missile for a soldier to fire unsupported.

I see the link I had provided appears to be a dead link. Here is another one to the same page. http://www.saabgroup.com/en/ProductsServices/products_az.htm
This link page states the following.
Advanced Short Range Air Defence Missile System

ASRAD-R is a modular air defence concept with features such as:

• 3D surveillance search and acquisition radar
• Automatic functions from target detection to missile tracking
• Remotely-controlled sensor and weapon platform
• Line-of-Sight guidance, unjammable laser beam riding missile
ASRAD-R is an all-target missile system with high precision at long ranges down to ground level, for self defence also against armoured ground targets, well suited for protection of mobile units and defence of vital objects.

The BOLIDE missile for ASRAD-R utilises the unique and unjammable laser beam guidance of the RBS 70 and provides an intercept range of 8 km. With the BOLIDE missile, the ASRAD-R has an all-target capability, including small targets such as cruise missiles and UAVs.

The ASRAD-R weapon system comprises a stabilised air defence platform for integration on vehicles, containerised or pallet mounted, and a weapon control unit for remote control up to 100 m from the platform.

ASRAD-R can be mounted on almost any tracked or wheeled vehicle providing the required mobility and protection to match the unit to be defended. The flexible and modular design enable customised solutions.

In a fully autonomous fire unit, the HARD 3D radar with integrated IFF system is mounted on the top. The radar can also be installed on a separate vehicle to operate together with a number of fire units. The complete platform can be folded and lowered into the vehicle during transport. However, any configuration can have Battlefield Management/C4I integration.

ASRAD-R – A joint venture

The ASRAD-R project entails the close co-operation of Saab Bofors Dynamics, Saab Microwave Systems and Rheinmetall Defence Electronics GmbH. It is based on the ASRAD platform, used in the German LeFlaSys programme and the laser beam riding BOLIDE missile.

A containerised version of ASRAD-R called Container Mounted Air Defence (CMAD), mounted on a Mercedes Unimog 5000 vehicle, has been developed and is in production for the Finnish Defence Forces.

System performance

With all subsystems and all command and control units integrated with the platform, ASRAD-R has the following:


• 24 hours capability
• Automatic target designation and target tracking, with manual override
• Four ready-to-fire BOLIDE missiles (or other RBS 70 missiles)
• All-target and armour-piercing capability (incl. ground targets)
• Intercept range 8 km
• GPS navigation and positioning
• Data/Voice Communication
• 3D radar with 20 km surveillance on-the-move capabilities

The platform can, in the folded transport position, be protected against fragments and comes close to stealth protection in some applications. The low profile of the vehicle and folded platform make ASRAD-R air-transportable in most transport aircraft.

The total weight of the platform, including weapon control equipment and the HARD 3D radar, is less than 1,000 kg.

ASRAD-R has the potential of becoming an integrated part of an air defence network system. A complete exchange of data between co-operating ASRAD-R units provides for the optimisation of all air defence efforts. This also increases the units’ level of survivability. Parts of the command, control, communication and computers can be customised.
I have tried to include the picture from the Saab site showing the M113 mounting for the system. The article itself does mention that is can be mounted on a variety of system. I think that makes sense, since ASRAD-R seems to be a more involved system than a traditional IR manpad like a Stinger since it has options such as radar queueing, etc.

Hope this post helps more than the last.

-Cheers
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Thank you Todjaeger. However I already have this info. I just don't know if the ADF has plans for mounting the RBS-70 on a mobile platform or not.
 

jacktar

New Member
Thank you Todjaeger. However I already have this info. I just don't know if the ADF has plans for mounting the RBS-70 on a mobile platform or not.
FutureTank, The project Land 19 will be looking at these requirements over the next couple of years. This may also include some CRAM capability. To the best of my limited knowledge they are not planning on a "mounted" solution, although the capability for a containerised/palleted version would be a minimum requirement to my way of thinking.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
The ADF is purchasing a Bolide version of RBS-70. However this is what I'm asking. Is there a provision to mount it on a mobile platform such as a truck, a Bushmaster or a modified M113 (there are some surplus in storage).
16 AD Regt has been equipped with Perentie 6x6 vehicles to transport the RBS-70 troops around the place. I imagine the launch system is simply carried around within the vehicle, rather than integrated onto the vehicle as such.

However, given they've recently been integrated with a new radar system, I doubt they'll become vehicle mounted anytime soon.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
16 AD Regt has been equipped with Perentie 6x6 vehicles to transport the RBS-70 troops around the place. I imagine the launch system is simply carried around within the vehicle, rather than integrated onto the vehicle as such.

However, given they've recently been integrated with a new radar system, I doubt they'll become vehicle mounted anytime soon.
So they need to be dismounted and set up into a firing position?
I'll have a look for the new radar system.

Thank you for the info.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Mrh-90

This came up in a conversation and I have no answer. The ADF tradition is to have its aircraft named by either adopting original manufacturer name or giving one an Australian name. However the MRH-90 does not come with a name. Is the Army going to give it a name? Is there one already proposed?
I think Murana would sound good MuRana Helicopter. Its Aboriginal for "Willy wagtail", and choppers tend to 'wag' their tails a lot. The could be 'whirly wagtails' of the ADF :)

Canungra (Place of owls) was already taken :)
 
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FutureTank

Banned Member
How many RBS Launchers are there in 16th AD Rgt?
"Normally, a Battery of 15 fire-units will be allocated to Task Force and, depending on the task, a Troop of five fire-units may be allocated to a Battle Group. The versatility of the new systems is such that, for first time, GBAD radars can be deployed independent of the missile launchers. This means The Air Defence Regiment can deploy an independent airspace surveillance force element that is able to distribute the local air picture to commanders throughout the battlespace."

Source: ADF

There are two firing batteries in a regiment
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Would anyone be able to enlighten me on the rough weight of the turret for the Australian Leopard's turret?
Didn't we talked about this in the "Light tank" thread?

Leopard 1 A3/A4 turret (Which should have a similar mass like AS2) is 11 tons including armament, but excluding crew, ammunition and equipment.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Didn't we talked about this in the "Light tank" thread?

Leopard 1 A3/A4 turret (Which should have a similar mass like AS2) is 11 tons including armament, but excluding crew, ammunition and equipment.
Ah, yes Waylander. Thank you. I didn't forget it. Its backed up somewhere :)

This is for a different purpose to light tanks. Its for a helicopter :)
Proposal for heavy anti-tank helicopter :D
 

McTaff

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Ah, yes Waylander. Thank you. I didn't forget it. Its backed up somewhere :)

This is for a different purpose to light tanks. Its for a helicopter :)
Proposal for heavy anti-tank helicopter :D
"SPECTRE Gunship" style Ericsson Air Crane?

Now I'd like to see that!
 
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