Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
At the end of the day the Ministry of Defence must be commended for its sterling attempts to preserve New Zealand military aviation history and the international recognition that it brings. The upgrade of the 42 year old Herc's and the 2003 purchase of the 12 year old Boeings was part of what Mr Burton described as part of a plan to "create a strong, multi-faceted air transport fleet." Indeed it has been so efficent that we have successfully managed to currently cover all of the NZDF's domestic transport capability down to a single aircraft. We might have lost the RWC, but this can all make us all proud and prove that a reconditioning and rotation policy can work. Possibly not quite up there yet for a Demming Award for Management Systems but a strong contender for a 2007 Darwin award.
Highwayman
New Member
I used Italian / Norwegian a/c as an example of 2nd hand a/c available.
The point is the project is reportedly worth NZ$226 or NZ$45.2 per a/c which is a lot of money when a new a/c would cost approximately 3 times that amount without the added infastructure costs etc.and would last 40 years.A
shortsighted policy or am missing the point?
The point is the project is reportedly worth NZ$226 or NZ$45.2 per a/c which is a lot of money when a new a/c would cost approximately 3 times that amount without the added infastructure costs etc.and would last 40 years.A
shortsighted policy or am missing the point?
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recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Yes, both Mr C. and yourself make good points in terms of the C-130H Life Extension costs v buying new C-130J's for example. The NZ Govt LTDP lists the costs as NZ$234m, which was to have given an extra 15 years of life but now will only be 10 years. (Incidentally I would expect the last upgraded C130's to fly till about 2020 or 2021, I doubt they will all be phased out in 2017 as replacements usually take 2-3 years to all be delivered and become operational etc).
Around 2002 the Govt formally ruled out purchasing new C-130J replacements (citing cost and teething problems with the J) and instead decided to fund the upgrades. The C-130J's reportedly were to cost NZ$800m (approx US$500m) so assuming that was for 5 aircraft, to last 30 years (or 40 at the very most), then in hindsight the Govt would have got more value for money in the long run by replacing rather than upgrading. Which was a sentiment shared by the former CDF. Having said that the C-130H's will be top notch aircraft when the upgrades are complete and fortunately a replacement project appears to be getting underway. Hopefully the RNZAF will get what it wants this time.
Regarding the 757's, perhaps the Govt should have bought and upgraded the aircraft before they entered operational service (and leased a general purpose airliner-configured type aircraft in the interim). I guess this would be a good example of what happens when the Govt buys cheaper ex-civilian aircraft rather than a proven military variant and decides to scrimp by not leasing a third aircraft as each one of the two are upgraded etc. (The other scary thing is the Govt often talks of buying commercial rather than mil-spec, eg the original Labour Govt proposal to upgrade the P-3's with commercial radars - fortunately didn't happen like that though, Project Protector fleet are built to civilian standards, talk of buying civie coastwatch aircraft or contracting that out to commercial operators etc)!
Having said that the 757's have already proven to be great assets to both the NZDF (and ADF) and they will be even better when the upgrades are complete. It's just that it's a pity that Govt's (all Govt's, not just this one) seem to lack any appreciation of spending just that little bit more to have things go right, because time after time, we see that things never work out in real life the way they are planned on paper etc.
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I think you make a solid point. My previous comments were ironic. The issue has been that there were few options that the NZDF realistically had in mind for new medium transport/airlift. The C-130J or the A-400. A few years ago the J was considered and we could have had them in service now. or we could have waited for the A400 and tried to use political diplomatic influence to get them early in the production run. When the government turned down the J, it would have been a decade long wait to get A-400's and felt that the C-130H life extension was the best ( because it was the cheapest option). Like many of the recent procurements the decision making process to start the C-130 upgrade has taken a lot longer than expected. This is not the fault of the NZDF or the MOD. Questions also can be asked about the the B-757 purchase in 2003 and the four year wait for it to get its upgrade. Why was it not done sooner? Why were the aircraft purchased at all? Why wasn't a lease option for the B-727 replacement not seriously considered when it got to cabinet level? Why was the option 'D' consideration in keeping 11 of the Macchi's in service removed from the Air Combat Forces review as it was promoted by some Air Staff at the time? Why has it taken nearly 5 years to select and approve a T/LUH? Why haven't three extra used C-130 airframes been purchased and put through the current upgrade so as to meet tasking requirements, something suggested by ex CDF Carey Adamson no less? You have made some valid points Highwayman. The fact is that within 10 years NZ is going to face a huge re-equipment and modernisation bill for both its Navy and Air Force due to the current era of unrealistic budgets.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Out of curiousity, any idea what are the Norwegians are planning in terms of replacing their old C-130's? Waiting for the A400 to come into production or C-130J's "now" perhaps?
The 6 C-130H are being replaced by 4 C-130J between 2008 and 2010 so a drop in capacity but from what my brother in law has said they only manage to keep 2 flying at the moment so it shouldn't cause too much problems. The current ones are in a pretty poor state of repair and have been flogged to death rather like ours.
Defence Ministers Speech to RNZAF Association.
Below are some interesting quotes from Defence Minister Phil Goff's Speech to the RNZAF Association. Saturday 27th October 2007.
"The purchase of eight NH90 helicopters at three quarters of a billion dollars is our largest defence acquisition in recent years. It will be a cornerstone capability for the Defence Force for the next quarter century."
(So 8 Helicopters are now a cornerstone capability of the NZDF for the next 25 years.)
"We will shortly be considering options for advanced pilot training after the expiry of the present B200 King Air lease."
(Has he got the intestinal fortitude for bringing back some of the Macchi's in the interim and buying four to six a Q300's? over a longer term)
"Within the next week or so, I will be announcing the replacement for the Sioux training helicopter. The new aircraft will also be a quantum leap forward, with light utility capabilities in counter-terrorism and search and rescue as well as training rather than just the very basic training capability which the Sioux represents."
(Oh about time... It was starting to feel like Ground Hog Day. Will he buy enough?)
Below are some interesting quotes from Defence Minister Phil Goff's Speech to the RNZAF Association. Saturday 27th October 2007.
"The purchase of eight NH90 helicopters at three quarters of a billion dollars is our largest defence acquisition in recent years. It will be a cornerstone capability for the Defence Force for the next quarter century."
(So 8 Helicopters are now a cornerstone capability of the NZDF for the next 25 years.)
"We will shortly be considering options for advanced pilot training after the expiry of the present B200 King Air lease."
(Has he got the intestinal fortitude for bringing back some of the Macchi's in the interim and buying four to six a Q300's? over a longer term)
"Within the next week or so, I will be announcing the replacement for the Sioux training helicopter. The new aircraft will also be a quantum leap forward, with light utility capabilities in counter-terrorism and search and rescue as well as training rather than just the very basic training capability which the Sioux represents."
(Oh about time... It was starting to feel like Ground Hog Day. Will he buy enough?)
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Highwayman
New Member
The terrorists around the world must be now living in fear - in addition to training pilots, SAR duties the 6 x A109s the NZDF are purchasing are also to be used in the fight against terrorism!
It appears that like many of the worlds politicians NZ ministers are making unrealistic demands on the armed forces.
I don't pretend to be an expert but I would assume that due to maintenance etc. at any given time only 4 or 5 airframes will be available, similiarly there will be only 6 or 7 NH90s.
I seem to remember there was once a requirement (or was it a wish list) for 15 med. helicopters, 12 light helicopters, 8 Hercules and 3 frigates etc.
Any requirement seems eventually to be halved but to be effective in the modern world fighting terrorism and undertaking humanitarian tasks you need to have large fleets of helicopters and transport fleet.
If its any comfort here in the UK we have a govt that seems to have a similiar policy to NZ which is highlighted on the news every week with our troops in Afghanistan having limited air support, helicopters not available etc etc.
It appears that like many of the worlds politicians NZ ministers are making unrealistic demands on the armed forces.
I don't pretend to be an expert but I would assume that due to maintenance etc. at any given time only 4 or 5 airframes will be available, similiarly there will be only 6 or 7 NH90s.
I seem to remember there was once a requirement (or was it a wish list) for 15 med. helicopters, 12 light helicopters, 8 Hercules and 3 frigates etc.
Any requirement seems eventually to be halved but to be effective in the modern world fighting terrorism and undertaking humanitarian tasks you need to have large fleets of helicopters and transport fleet.
If its any comfort here in the UK we have a govt that seems to have a similiar policy to NZ which is highlighted on the news every week with our troops in Afghanistan having limited air support, helicopters not available etc etc.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
I imagine the Politician was referring to the LUH's role in Domestic Counter terrorism operations, rather than deployed operations such as Afghanistan, etc.
Even your 22nd SAS Regiment has a flight of Agusta A-109's that it uses for domestic CT roles and will probably never be deployed outside of the UK...
It is a worry that the Defence Minister would regard 8 NH-90's as 'a cornerstone capability' of a defence force and consider that it was adequate. I think it is also worrying when an 8 helo purchase is a country's largest defence acquisition for some time.
In fairness, though, there are very few defence forces (not even the US or UK) that are now able to replace major equipment, such as ships and aircraft, on a one for one basis. Replacement aircraft are generally far more capable but are almost always far more costly than their predecessors. How many Iroquois would three quarters of a billion dollars have purchased? The trouble is that no matter how capable a platform might be we can get to a stage where there are just not enough to do the job. The NZ helo fleet is in danger, IMO, of falling into this category.
Hopefully we will see a follow on order for additional NH-90's by NZ.
If the A-109 is selected to replace the Souix there will be a quantum leap forward in capability. As well as training, I agree that it should be able to take over some of the roles now carried out by the Iroquois, and take some pressure off the NH-90's. Let's hope that a sufficient number is ordered.
Tas
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Same reason too. It seems that a C-130 just can't last too long in the cold.
The Kiwis cold have used a stretched version of the C-130J for the same reason the Norweigans do, that they fly into the snow to resupply outposts and evacuate sick or injured people from these areas. The cost for 4 for Norway is said to come in at $520 million, add on the standard over budgetting and you get about, 550,570 mil.
"The stretched C-130J-30 adds 15 feet of fuselage length over its C-130J counterpart, most of which is placed forward of the wing as the plane stretches from 97'9" (29.3 m) to 112'9" (34.69 m). The extra cargo space allows it to add adds 2 standard pallets (to 8), 23 litters (to 97), 8 CDS bundles (to 24), 36 combat troops (to 128), or 28 paratroopers (to 92) over C-130H/J models, and the aircraft's maximum cargo weight increases by 9,000 pounds (to 164,000 pounds/ 74,393 kg), while maximum allowable cargo payload rises by a ton (to 44,000 pounds/ 19,958 kg). "
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/norway-to-renew-tactical-transport-fleet-03236/
On the point of the A109 for training, is it just me or would common airframes with your biggest neighbour/ally/sporting partner mean that a central training facility would save on costs, and only expanditure would be purchase of one or two A109s to accompany the 3 flying with the neighbour/ally/stupid world cup.We are both about to fly the MRH-90, we do have the A109 already for training, we are about to (eventually) fly the same airframe off our ANZACs, with few minor changes to ours. Is it the political will that one country fights wars the other doesn't accept(cause i'm sure theres 20 Excercises and peacekeepings that counter that argument) or is there something else politcally or willingly stopping an already close training and support link between ANZACs.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Wow, I just realized that I have not posted regularly in about two weeks...
Anyway, a question came to mind when I read about the Kiwi Skyhawks being stored outside after being given a "protective" latex coating. If they are leaking hydraulic and other fluids, just how "protective" is the latex coating. Last time I checked, latex broke down when in contact with petroleum/hydrocarbon-based compounds.
As for having it stored outside, but under constant surveillance and out of sight... It makes me think of a line from the movie the Wizard of Oz, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."
-Cheers
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Welcome back Todjaeger!
At last Defence Minister Goff announces the A109 T/LUH aquisition ... 5 airframes to enter service in 2010 (wha, 2010???, why not lease some A109's like the ADF have in the interim? Boy those poor old Bell47's must be wanting to park up and retire! Oh well, good news nonetheless!)
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http://www.beehive.govt.nz/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=31146
Goff – New helicopters selected for NZ Defence Force
Minister of Defence Phil Goff announced today that Cabinet has approved the start of contract negotiations with Agusta-Westland, the preferred tenderer for the supply of training-light utility helicopters to the New Zealand Defence Force.
“The negotiations for five Agusta-Westland A109LUHs and a flight simulator will commence shortly and I expect a contract to be signed in the first quarter of next year,” Phil Goff said.
“The helicopters should enter service with the Royal New Zealand Air Force in 2010.
“The purchase represents a new generation capability for the New Zealand Defence Force and in technology and capability is a quantum leap forward from the old Sioux training helicopter.
“In common with the Seasprite helicopter already in service and the eight new NH-90s on order for the RNZAF, the A109 is wheeled and capable of deployment from our navy vessels.
“The helicopter has the advanced technology necessary for training pilots going on to the Seasprite and NH-90 which the Sioux simply does not have.
“It flies faster and further, carries more people and can do a wide range of tasks, including with the Navy.
“As well as training, the A109 has light utility capabilities including air transport, search and rescue, aero-medical evacuation, disaster response and surveillance and counter terrorism support.
“It can work alongside the NH-90 or carry out tasks for which its size makes it more suited and at less expense than using the NH-90.
“It will also provide operational support for other government agencies, including Police, Customs, Department of Conservation, and Ministry of Fisheries.
“The Royal New Zealand Air Force is delighted with the decision. It represents another milestone in modernising the New Zealand Defence Force and providing it with capabilities needed for the Twenty First Century,’ Phil Goff said.
At last Defence Minister Goff announces the A109 T/LUH aquisition ... 5 airframes to enter service in 2010 (wha, 2010???, why not lease some A109's like the ADF have in the interim? Boy those poor old Bell47's must be wanting to park up and retire! Oh well, good news nonetheless!)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=31146
Goff – New helicopters selected for NZ Defence Force
Minister of Defence Phil Goff announced today that Cabinet has approved the start of contract negotiations with Agusta-Westland, the preferred tenderer for the supply of training-light utility helicopters to the New Zealand Defence Force.
“The negotiations for five Agusta-Westland A109LUHs and a flight simulator will commence shortly and I expect a contract to be signed in the first quarter of next year,” Phil Goff said.
“The helicopters should enter service with the Royal New Zealand Air Force in 2010.
“The purchase represents a new generation capability for the New Zealand Defence Force and in technology and capability is a quantum leap forward from the old Sioux training helicopter.
“In common with the Seasprite helicopter already in service and the eight new NH-90s on order for the RNZAF, the A109 is wheeled and capable of deployment from our navy vessels.
“The helicopter has the advanced technology necessary for training pilots going on to the Seasprite and NH-90 which the Sioux simply does not have.
“It flies faster and further, carries more people and can do a wide range of tasks, including with the Navy.
“As well as training, the A109 has light utility capabilities including air transport, search and rescue, aero-medical evacuation, disaster response and surveillance and counter terrorism support.
“It can work alongside the NH-90 or carry out tasks for which its size makes it more suited and at less expense than using the NH-90.
“It will also provide operational support for other government agencies, including Police, Customs, Department of Conservation, and Ministry of Fisheries.
“The Royal New Zealand Air Force is delighted with the decision. It represents another milestone in modernising the New Zealand Defence Force and providing it with capabilities needed for the Twenty First Century,’ Phil Goff said.
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Well its a start a good helicopter, 5 airframes is just not enough especially since it will be assisting all the other agencies, and provide training, not many to go around, precludes troop support capability I suppose, maybe there will be some foresight and the heli-tow package would be included yeah right.
Essentially as expected but overall good news none the less.
It will be interesting to see in the negotiation periods what systems are included such as countermeasures, a winch etc, time will tell.
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A good choice in my opinion, but why only five helicopters?Well its a start a good helicopter, 5 airframes is jsut not enough especially since it will be assisting all the other agencies, and provide training, not many to go around, precludes troop support capability I suppose, maybe there will be some foresight and the heli-tow package would be included yeah right, oh well to be expected but good news none the less.
When we look at the job description for them that has been described by the Defence Minister, they are going to be very hard worked, even with a simulator to assist with training.Tas
I thought that the Budget was around $110M I would have thought you could have got more than 5 and a sim for that amount, I think the aircraft Sweden brought worked out at about $NZ12M per aircraft including logistics (and I think some of those were marinised versions)
Would be interesting to know the equipment spec.
Maybe it is a negiotiating tactic with A/W
Would be interesting to know the equipment spec.
Maybe it is a negiotiating tactic with A/W
A "boutique" Defence Force is essentially what we have now .... Five air frames are completely unacceptable even though they got the right aircraft in my view. Again another policy failure. The capability gap will soon be beyond embarrassing. Oh well the front page of the NZ Herald portends to major changes next year and it frankly can't come soon enough. We deserve better than this!
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Five airframes is a very odd figure, it doesn't make much sense when the Govt has specified the A109LUH's roles as being: "Basic Pilot Training", "Advanced Pilot Training", "Crewman Training", "Counter Terrorism" and "Light Utility" (which includes air transport, search and rescue, aero-medical evacuation, disaster response and surveillance according to DMin Goff). Especially when the speculation has been at least six airframes (if not more eg 8 or 10 etc). Perhaps the RNZAF will be getting a comprehensive support and spares package? (By coincidence the RNZAF only has five Bell 47's left in service since 13 were bought in the 1960's http://www.airforce.mil.nz/about-us/aircraft/sioux.htm, although again the Bell 47's role is only "Basic Pilot Training", so this still doesn't stack up in terms of replacement numbers).
I hazard a guess that the NZDF probably wanted more helos but Cabinet only agreed to funding 5 (if you look at the composition of the current Cabinet, apart from the Defence Minister they're not the types to be interested in such matters)!
By purchasing a flight simulator, can we assume that joint ADF-NZDF training isn't on the cards? (Although if so, could that have explained why only five helos are being sought)? Any thoughts anyone?
The Scoop news site has actually published the Govt's media release Q&A fact-sheet. Most of it is pap but there are some pieces of interest (eg Navy use and training roles, all future training for crew to be deck qualified etc). May as well reproduce it here. Note no mention of why five helos were chosen. Maybe MSM could take more of an interest and quiz the Defence Minister tomorrow etc.
BTW for more A109LUH specs see http://www.agustawestland.com/products01_02.asp?id_product=3&id=3
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Announcement of selection of preferred tenderer for the Training/Light Utility Helicopter Project:
Questions and Answers
- What helicopter has been selected?
o The Agusta-Westland A109LUH (Light Utility Helicopter) has been selected to meet NZ’s requirements for a Training/Light Utility Helicopter.
o The A109LUH is a military variant of the A109 family of helicopters that have served in a variety of civil and military guises in over 80 countries around the world.
- What sort of helicopter is the A109LUH?
o The A109LUH is a lightweight, twin-engined helicopter with a modern ‘glass’ cockpit and a retractable wheeled undercarriage, optimised for use in military training and light utility tasks.
- Who makes the A109LUH?
o The A109LUH is made by Agusta-Westland, which is based near Milan in Italy. Agusta-Westland is one of the largest helicopter manufacturers in the world having delivered over 4,500 helicopters to civil and military customers worldwide.
o Agusta-Westland is also a partner in the production of the NH90, which NZ is acquiring to replace the Iroquois.
- How many are being purchased?
o Five A109LUH are being purchased, along with a Flight Training Device to provide simulation training for the pilots.
- How much will they cost?
o The final detailed cost for the package will be advised at the conclusion of the contract negotiations.
- How big is the A109LUH?
o The A109LUH has the following dimensions:
- Overall length (rotors turning) - 12.94m
- Fuselage length – 11.45m
- Rotor diameter – 10.83m
- Height - 3.4m
- Maximum Take-Off Weight - 3175kg
- Empty weight – approximately 1670kg (depending on the equipment fitted for the task to be undertaken)
- What is the performance of the A109LUH?
o With a crew of three and a thirty minute fuel reserve the A109LUH is capable of the following performance:
- Maximum cruise speed - 285kph
- Maximum ferry range - 650km
- Maximum endurance - 3hrs 30mins
- Useful load on the cargo hook - 600 kg
- Rescue winch capable of lifting 270kg or two people
- Carrying one stretcher patient
- How many people can it carry?
o The A109LUH has two pilot seats and a maximum of six seats in the rear cabin. The A109LUH will normally have a crew of two pilots and one helicopter crewman, although this may vary depending on the complexity of the task being undertaken.
- What sort of tasks can it be used for?
o The A109LUH can be used for pilot and helicopter crewman training as well as for a wide variety of tasks involving the carriage of small numbers of people and modest amounts of freight. In NZ service it is intended to be used for conducting:
- Pilot and helicopter crewman training for aircrew destined to fly the NH90 and SH-2G Seasprite helicopters.
- Operational support to the NH90 Medium Utility Helicopter during counter terrorist operations.
- Light utility tasks involving the carriage of up to six people or modest amounts of freight.
- Operational support to other NZ government agencies including NZ Police, NZ Customs Service, Department of Conservation and Ministry of Fisheries.
- What modifications are being made to the A109LUH to make it suitable for NZ requirements?
o The A109LUH is being fitted with radios that will make it compatible with the communications capabilities of the NZDF, other military partners and civil agencies.
- Who else uses the A109LUH?
o Variants of the A109LUH are operated by South Africa, Malaysia and Sweden.
o Other variants of the A109 are flown by the United Kingdom, Australia, the US and many other countries and companies around the world.
- What makes the A109LUH suitable for training NZ crews?
o The A109LUH has an advanced ‘glass’ cockpit with flight performance, engine performance, moving map and other instrumentation displayed on a number of multi-function displays in the cockpit.
o The A109LUH also has an advanced four-axis autopilot which, along with an advanced flight management system and a full suite of instrument flying and navigation systems, provides an excellent introduction to the technology used in the NH90.
o The A109LUH has a cabin, cargo hook and rescue winch that allow helicopter crewman to be trained in the duties that they will perform on the larger helicopters.
o The A109LUH is suitable for introducing helicopter crews to Naval ships’ deck operations. All future helicopter crews will need to be deck qualified so they can operate to and from the Project PROTECTOR vessels currently being acquired.
- Why do we need to replace the Sioux?
o The Sioux provides neither the twin-engined, high performance experience, nor does it have sufficiently advanced instrumentation, to prepare pilots to undertake training on the very advanced NH90, which is being purchased to replace the Iroquois.
o The Sioux can not be used for training helicopter crewmen as it does not have the cabin space, winch or hook necessary and so the Iroquois is currently used. Upon retirement of the Iroquois, the NH90 and Seasprite would be inappropriate to use routinely for basic helicopter crewmen training.
- Where will the A109s be based?
o The A109s will form part of No 3 Squadron at RNZAF Base Ohakea.
- What other helicopters were considered?
o There were only two competitive responses to the Request for Tender, with the other helicopter considered being the Eurocopter EC635, a military variant of the civil EC135 helicopter.
- Why was the A109LUH chosen?
o The A109LUH was chosen following a competitive tender and evaluation process. It was assessed to be the helicopter that best met the widest range of NZ requirements.
- When will they arrive in New Zealand?
o The final construction and delivery schedule will be finalised during contract negotiations that will take place over the coming months. However, it is anticipated that the aircraft will enter service in 2010.
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Indicative A109 vs Sioux & Iroquois Performance Comparison
The performance comparisons below assume ‘standard’ operational configurations and crews noting that these can vary depending on the mission being undertaken and the weather conditions and threat environment in which it is being conducted.
Maximum Take-Off Weight:
A109LUH 3175 kg
Sioux 1338 kg
Maximum number of passenger seats (Non tactical loading and unequipped passengers):
A109LUH 6
Sioux 2
Practical maximum number of passengers:
A109LUH 3 - 4
Sioux 1
Maximum Cruise Speed:
A109LUH 285 kph
Sioux 120 kph
Maximum Range (with auxiliary fuel):
A109LUH 650 km
Sioux 270 km
Maximum Underslung Load over a radius of 50 km:
A109LUH 500 kg
Sioux Nil
Roles:
A109LUH
Basic Pilot Training
Advanced Pilot Training
Crewman Training
Counter Terrorism
Light Utility
Sioux
Basic Pilot Training
I hazard a guess that the NZDF probably wanted more helos but Cabinet only agreed to funding 5 (if you look at the composition of the current Cabinet, apart from the Defence Minister they're not the types to be interested in such matters)!
By purchasing a flight simulator, can we assume that joint ADF-NZDF training isn't on the cards? (Although if so, could that have explained why only five helos are being sought)? Any thoughts anyone?
The Scoop news site has actually published the Govt's media release Q&A fact-sheet. Most of it is pap but there are some pieces of interest (eg Navy use and training roles, all future training for crew to be deck qualified etc). May as well reproduce it here. Note no mention of why five helos were chosen. Maybe MSM could take more of an interest and quiz the Defence Minister tomorrow etc.
BTW for more A109LUH specs see http://www.agustawestland.com/products01_02.asp?id_product=3&id=3
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Announcement of selection of preferred tenderer for the Training/Light Utility Helicopter Project:
Questions and Answers
- What helicopter has been selected?
o The Agusta-Westland A109LUH (Light Utility Helicopter) has been selected to meet NZ’s requirements for a Training/Light Utility Helicopter.
o The A109LUH is a military variant of the A109 family of helicopters that have served in a variety of civil and military guises in over 80 countries around the world.
- What sort of helicopter is the A109LUH?
o The A109LUH is a lightweight, twin-engined helicopter with a modern ‘glass’ cockpit and a retractable wheeled undercarriage, optimised for use in military training and light utility tasks.
- Who makes the A109LUH?
o The A109LUH is made by Agusta-Westland, which is based near Milan in Italy. Agusta-Westland is one of the largest helicopter manufacturers in the world having delivered over 4,500 helicopters to civil and military customers worldwide.
o Agusta-Westland is also a partner in the production of the NH90, which NZ is acquiring to replace the Iroquois.
- How many are being purchased?
o Five A109LUH are being purchased, along with a Flight Training Device to provide simulation training for the pilots.
- How much will they cost?
o The final detailed cost for the package will be advised at the conclusion of the contract negotiations.
- How big is the A109LUH?
o The A109LUH has the following dimensions:
- Overall length (rotors turning) - 12.94m
- Fuselage length – 11.45m
- Rotor diameter – 10.83m
- Height - 3.4m
- Maximum Take-Off Weight - 3175kg
- Empty weight – approximately 1670kg (depending on the equipment fitted for the task to be undertaken)
- What is the performance of the A109LUH?
o With a crew of three and a thirty minute fuel reserve the A109LUH is capable of the following performance:
- Maximum cruise speed - 285kph
- Maximum ferry range - 650km
- Maximum endurance - 3hrs 30mins
- Useful load on the cargo hook - 600 kg
- Rescue winch capable of lifting 270kg or two people
- Carrying one stretcher patient
- How many people can it carry?
o The A109LUH has two pilot seats and a maximum of six seats in the rear cabin. The A109LUH will normally have a crew of two pilots and one helicopter crewman, although this may vary depending on the complexity of the task being undertaken.
- What sort of tasks can it be used for?
o The A109LUH can be used for pilot and helicopter crewman training as well as for a wide variety of tasks involving the carriage of small numbers of people and modest amounts of freight. In NZ service it is intended to be used for conducting:
- Pilot and helicopter crewman training for aircrew destined to fly the NH90 and SH-2G Seasprite helicopters.
- Operational support to the NH90 Medium Utility Helicopter during counter terrorist operations.
- Light utility tasks involving the carriage of up to six people or modest amounts of freight.
- Operational support to other NZ government agencies including NZ Police, NZ Customs Service, Department of Conservation and Ministry of Fisheries.
- What modifications are being made to the A109LUH to make it suitable for NZ requirements?
o The A109LUH is being fitted with radios that will make it compatible with the communications capabilities of the NZDF, other military partners and civil agencies.
- Who else uses the A109LUH?
o Variants of the A109LUH are operated by South Africa, Malaysia and Sweden.
o Other variants of the A109 are flown by the United Kingdom, Australia, the US and many other countries and companies around the world.
- What makes the A109LUH suitable for training NZ crews?
o The A109LUH has an advanced ‘glass’ cockpit with flight performance, engine performance, moving map and other instrumentation displayed on a number of multi-function displays in the cockpit.
o The A109LUH also has an advanced four-axis autopilot which, along with an advanced flight management system and a full suite of instrument flying and navigation systems, provides an excellent introduction to the technology used in the NH90.
o The A109LUH has a cabin, cargo hook and rescue winch that allow helicopter crewman to be trained in the duties that they will perform on the larger helicopters.
o The A109LUH is suitable for introducing helicopter crews to Naval ships’ deck operations. All future helicopter crews will need to be deck qualified so they can operate to and from the Project PROTECTOR vessels currently being acquired.
- Why do we need to replace the Sioux?
o The Sioux provides neither the twin-engined, high performance experience, nor does it have sufficiently advanced instrumentation, to prepare pilots to undertake training on the very advanced NH90, which is being purchased to replace the Iroquois.
o The Sioux can not be used for training helicopter crewmen as it does not have the cabin space, winch or hook necessary and so the Iroquois is currently used. Upon retirement of the Iroquois, the NH90 and Seasprite would be inappropriate to use routinely for basic helicopter crewmen training.
- Where will the A109s be based?
o The A109s will form part of No 3 Squadron at RNZAF Base Ohakea.
- What other helicopters were considered?
o There were only two competitive responses to the Request for Tender, with the other helicopter considered being the Eurocopter EC635, a military variant of the civil EC135 helicopter.
- Why was the A109LUH chosen?
o The A109LUH was chosen following a competitive tender and evaluation process. It was assessed to be the helicopter that best met the widest range of NZ requirements.
- When will they arrive in New Zealand?
o The final construction and delivery schedule will be finalised during contract negotiations that will take place over the coming months. However, it is anticipated that the aircraft will enter service in 2010.
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Indicative A109 vs Sioux & Iroquois Performance Comparison
The performance comparisons below assume ‘standard’ operational configurations and crews noting that these can vary depending on the mission being undertaken and the weather conditions and threat environment in which it is being conducted.
Maximum Take-Off Weight:
A109LUH 3175 kg
Sioux 1338 kg
Maximum number of passenger seats (Non tactical loading and unequipped passengers):
A109LUH 6
Sioux 2
Practical maximum number of passengers:
A109LUH 3 - 4
Sioux 1
Maximum Cruise Speed:
A109LUH 285 kph
Sioux 120 kph
Maximum Range (with auxiliary fuel):
A109LUH 650 km
Sioux 270 km
Maximum Underslung Load over a radius of 50 km:
A109LUH 500 kg
Sioux Nil
Roles:
A109LUH
Basic Pilot Training
Advanced Pilot Training
Crewman Training
Counter Terrorism
Light Utility
Sioux
Basic Pilot Training
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RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Boutique, a excellent way to describe the equipment purchases, I hadn't been able to label it properly, agreed they have the right aircraft, I would love to see a white paper or similar released next year with all the public consultation that goes along with it.
On a side note I whipped a email off to the Min-Def today asking why 5 airframes were selected, whether counter measure packages were being considered etc, don't really expect a reply but meh can't hurt to try.
Cheers,
Rob
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