Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[cheetah]

If iam to go with this nonsense argument that if Pakistan was to buy any thing from any country it will fall into Chinese hands.
cant same be said about Indian purchase of American weapons to fall into Russian hands or from there making its way to china.

Reason i said this because the so called defense experts starting these rumors are always Pakistan's friendly neighbors.:

Firehouse Asia times is an Indian new paper what ever they say about Pakistan's defense deals must be true.nfloorl:

 

[su-30mki]

Well, if the French win the 'bid' to supply the missiles and the radar to PAF for Jf-17, they probably will go ahead. As the above article points out correctly, France has been itching to have the arms embargo on China lifted. Who knows if they consider it OK to have Pakistan let Chinese engineers look at their tech, maybe for a bit inflated price tag on the equipment? Searches me..

Well, who else is participating in this 'bid' for the french to compete.Surething, if the chinese will want to have a look mat these missiles, can the pakistani authority refuse them? The answere is clear, the chinese will have those missiles replicated, just give it a new name and market it the world around in just half the price!!!nfloorl:

 

[su-30mki]

If iam to go with this nonsense argument that if Pakistan was to buy any thing from any country it will fall into Chinese hands.
cant same be said about Indian purchase of American weapons to fall into Russian hands or from there making its way to china.

Reason i said this because the so called defense experts starting these rumors are always Pakistan's friendly neighbors.:

Firehouse Asia times is an Indian new paper what ever they say about Pakistan's defense deals must be true.nfloorl:

Asia times is not an indian newspaper, its an hongkong based news paper.American material falling into russian hands? which american hardware is it that india uses?F-18? India has equally capable aircraft.Well its the other way around.The Americans want to get their hands on the indian su-30mki.The indians have used the su-30mk varient for air exercises but never have they sent an su30-mki.So there is not a situation where american material falling into russian hands.

ALSO READ:http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread108803/pg1

 

[SABRE]

Su-30MKI you have just come out of a ban & you are back to your old tricks. 2nd time ban would be permanent. You Have been warned!

cheetah you too are being warned ... don't post in a way it could stir trouble.

 

[cheetah]

Su-30MKI you have just come out of a ban & you are back to your old tricks. 2nd time ban would be permanent. You Have been warned!

cheetah you too are being warned ... don't post in a way it could stir trouble.

iam sorry sabre but iam just listing facts here i am not insulting no one.there is never ever been a case of any American tech supplied to china via Pakistan.if there is any American tech in Chinese hands they either baught it from USA or Israel never through Pakistan.:unknown

 

[cheetah]

Asia times is not an indian newspaper, its an hongkong based news paper.American material falling into russian hands? which american hardware is it that india uses?F-18? India has equally capable aircraft.Well its the other way around.The Americans want to get their hands on the indian su-30mki.The indians have used the su-30mk varient for air exercises but never have they sent an su30-mki.So there is not a situation where american material falling into russian hands.

ALSO READ:http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread108803/pg1

Last i checked F22 raptors is the new bird in USAF .F18 is an old news for them.
iam kind of confused here why would the American be going in reverse if they are years ahead in that game.
i was simply implying there was rumors at some forums that Americans might offer JSF F-35 to Indian air force.if iam not mistaken Russians don't have any thing smilier and they might be willing to look at that bird.:shudder

 

[Firehorse]

SU-30MKM link

The Israelis have more modern equipment, while Pakistan & India just came out of US arms embargo. That's why China could care less about old American jets PAF has. Malaysia now has SU-30MKM, as advanced as SU-30MKI , so the Chinese (and perhaps the Americans, for that matter) could easily get access to them.

 

[bhama515]

Hmmmm

Simple reason, Hindustan or idia bharat whatever its called.....is a sworn enemy of Pakistan. It will block whatever arms it is getting from different sources. It tried to block the new F-16s...the JAS Gripen back in 2002....the Mirage2005 from qatar....and now the engines for the JF-17.
Meanwhile, it equips its forces with more modern stuff and arms itself to the teeth so that when the time comes when it will finally attack Pakistan in the near distant future ...it will have total superiority. For some reason...indiaa/hindustan/bhaarat is totally obsessed with Pakistan.

Well i have noticed this theme not on this forum but on a lot of forums,The ppl from pakistan say that India is obsessed with them, let me clarify this once and for all, no we r not obsessed as this esteemed internet warrior puts it but merly vigilant of our "Sworn Enemy", and well why shouldn't we be we have more to lose and more to gain economically by either war or peace,as Indian economy is booming and so is its reignal influence. As far as trying to deny any technology to pakistan while arming itself to the teeth,well boys you would have done the same if you had the resources, i don't mean any disrespect but its called common sense,unfourtunetly u don't have those resources,but u would have ,and please dont deny it and insult the intelligence of this forum.

Moderator edit.

welcome to the forum. I'd like to draw your attention to the forum rules, & in particular rule 18. Your co-operation would be appreciated, & will make sure your stay here is as long & pleasant as you & I would like it to be.
http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Happy posting,

PJI

 

[IceCold]

So how far is the smoke related issue being addressed of the RD93 for JF-17? Also there is some news regarding RD-93b being developed with added thrust. Since for the time being china isnt interested in the induction of JF's perhaps this means that although indirectly but russia does consider pakistan as a potential coustmer for their engine despite being a local chinese version of the engine being developed. One more thing why is additional thrust is required? The plane can already achieve mach 1.8 besides its not underpowered and also the rate of climb of the aircraft is very impressive, so what possible advantage will more thrust give to the JF's?

 

[mysterious]

All I can see from the RD-93B buzz is that it has 10% more thrust with the issue of black-smoke that sometimes came in to play with the original RD-93 resolved.

 

[IceCold]

All I can see from the RD-93B buzz is that it has 10% more thrust with the issue of black-smoke that sometimes came in to play with the original RD-93 resolved.

I was reading on wikipedia that to some extent it has been resolved but not completely. Besides its impact on the performance of the plane in hostile area quite be very challenging for the pilot since its IR signature will be very visible, which can make it an easy target.

Mod: Although not a rule here but try not to bring up things from wikipedia here. It is considered "least credible" since just about anyone could edit its content. Try & find alternative source(s).

 

[SABRE]

France seems to have approved the Radar & Missile deal to Pakistan.

France OKs Sale to Pakistan
​

French authorities have given approval for industry to offer a Thales RC 400 airborne fire control radar and MBDA Mica air-to-air missiles to Pakistan, to be fitted on the JF-17 jet fighter built under license from China, a Pakistani official said.

“They are cleared for export negotiation,” the official said.

The sale has raised concerns of a potential breach of the EU military embargo on China.

Pakistan and France have drawn up a memorandum of understanding in which Islamabad promises not to release technology to China, the Pakistani official said. French industry submitted prices about a year and a half ago for the gear and these were no longer valid. With export clearance, commercial negotiations can take place.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3113763&C=thisweek

 

[funtz]

France seems to have approved the Radar & Missile deal to Pakistan.

France OKs Sale to Pakistan
​

French authorities have given approval for industry to offer a Thales RC 400 airborne fire control radar and MBDA Mica air-to-air missiles to Pakistan, to be fitted on the JF-17 jet fighter built under license from China, a Pakistani official said.

“They are cleared for export negotiation,” the official said.

The sale has raised concerns of a potential breach of the EU military embargo on China.

Pakistan and France have drawn up a memorandum of understanding in which Islamabad promises not to release technology to China, the Pakistani official said. French industry submitted prices about a year and a half ago for the gear and these were no longer valid. With export clearance, commercial negotiations can take place.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3113763&C=thisweek

Forgive my ignorance on the issue, the question here was the integration of the missiles on a chinese platform, right?

Does this open up an option of future integration of MBDA Meteor?

 

[SABRE]

Forgive my ignorance on the issue, the question here was the integration of the missiles on a chinese platform, right?

If you mean integration on technical level than I don't think there was/is any problem. On political level the problem was that the technology might fall into the hands of Chinese, especially since the Pakistan would most probably be getting a ToT.

Does this open up an option of future integration of MBDA Meteor?

I can't say niether NO or YES to this question. If AIM-120C AMRAAM deal poses no political problem (as it so far hasn't) than I doubt any Pakistani interest in Meteor but who knows. I am not the right man to answer this question & this perhaps is not the right time either.

 

[funtz]

If you mean integration on technical level than I don't think there was/is any problem. On political level the problem was that the technology might fall into the hands of Chinese, especially since the Pakistan would most probably be getting a ToT.

I can't say niether NO or YES to this question. If AIM-120C AMRAAM deal poses no political problem (as it so far hasn't) than I doubt any Pakistani interest in Meteor but who knows. I am not the right man to answer this question & this perhaps is not the right time either.

No that was not what i meant, i was asking about the legal side of it, if let us say Pakistan Air Force sough European radars and missiles on the Dassault Mirage-III the question of technology transfer to China will not come up, even if the deal with Pakistan involved ToT.
However change the platform and the European arms embargo on China will create problems on the usage of European equipment on a Chinese platform.
That was what i thought the issue was, the possible violation of European arms embargo on China by the usage of European missiles and radars on a Chinese platform.Some thing that the above provided article shows will not happen.

This opens up further possibilities for the PAF to add on to the JF-17 platform. That was the reason for the meteor question, and ya well its in the future however a positive possibility none the less.

Also on the question, as PAF has bought the AMRAAM 120 C, do they also have the authority to use it with the JF-17, or will agreement with the supplying firm be required?

 

[SABRE]

No that was not what i meant, i was asking about the legal side of it, if let us say Pakistan Air Force sough European radars and missiles on the Dassault Mirage-III the question of technology transfer to China will not come up, even if it involved ToT.

However change the platform and the European arms embargo on China will create problems on the usage of European equipment on a Chinese platform. Some thing that the above provided article shows will not happen.

This opens up further possibilities to add on to the JF-17 platform.

I am getting confused here as well. Are you asking about legal status of integrating JF-17 with French/European Avionics & weapon system or in simple on Chinese platform since EU has arms embargo on China? If so than the thing is that Pakistan/PAC owns 50% of the ownership & will build its own units within the country from 2008. Which means all integration will take place with in Pakistan. As for the Chinese/CAC they'll produce their FC-1 versions in China.

The French are providing weapons to be fitted on Pakistani JF-17s not the Chinese FC-1. although they are same thing.

Also on the question, as PAF has bought the AMRAAM 120 C, do they also have the authority to use it with the JF-17, or will agreement with the supplying firm be required?

That was the reason for the meteor question, it might in my opinion when ever it comes out provide PAF with a serious AAM that has legs all the way to the extremes of its range envelop, of course in the future.

I dont thin PAF/PAC have so far asked US for AMRAAMs to be used on JF-17, although PAF/PAC had it under consideration (source: ACM). But since PAF has taken MICA I doubt AIM-120C to be integrated on JF-17. PAF perhaps wants to keep the aircraft away from American political unpredictability.

I still can't answer your question on Meteor.

 

[pshamim]

It is usually the other way round. Integrating a third party weapon system onto a paltform, you need the permission from the platform builder. In this case we should be asking if China will have an objection and that is certainly no.

 

[funtz]

- what i made of the whole situation as reported in the media was that the 'European arms embargo on China' was creating legal problems for the sale of radar and missiles to be used in the Platform that was created by China and Pakistan,

- had it been a Mirage-III or for the sake of discussion a European platform that PAF operated the question of the possibility of same missiles and radar being transfered to China would not have come up.

- essentially my question was
Was the problem legal with the platform being partly owned by China and partly by Pakistan as opposed to transferring technology to Pakistan which might be further transfered to China.

All of this doubt came from news like cited above

The sale has raised concerns of a potential breach of the EU military embargo on China.

Pakistan and France have drawn up a memorandum of understanding in which Islamabad promises not to release technology to China, the Pakistani official said.

As you would see above, if PAF decides to go for Rafale aircraft (which might never happen) then the need of something like

'Islamabad promises not to release technology to China'

will never be there in the first place, would it.

- for the meteor question, ya its too far in the future.

 

[pshamim]

Sir,
I standby my post earlier.

Concerns raised is if Pakistan will transfer the technology to China when radars are sold to PAF. It is French decission if it has those concern. Looks like it does not.

Integrating the system on a Chinese platform owned by Pakistan is not a concern.

 

[swerve]

...
Does this open up an option of future integration of MBDA Meteor?

Meteor, unlike Mica & RC-400, is not an entirely French product. I think any of the states which are financing development can veto a sale.