What threat from China would this be, I don't see them threatening anyone at the moment (except Taiwan but that's an internal issue).
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
RNZAF hercky-birds
The RNZAF has been getting some good publicity of late with their C130 low flying training.
TVNZ Close Up video (click on the "low riders" link) http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/497100/1387711
Fairfax Media (click on tiny "view video" button above the article text) http://www.stuff.co.nz/4215779a11.html
Hopefully these will appear on DT as links, not imbedded video (sorry about the Skyhawk video post a few days ago, they were meant to be links not imbedded video)
The RNZAF has been getting some good publicity of late with their C130 low flying training.
TVNZ Close Up video (click on the "low riders" link) http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/497100/1387711
Fairfax Media (click on tiny "view video" button above the article text) http://www.stuff.co.nz/4215779a11.html
Hopefully these will appear on DT as links, not imbedded video (sorry about the Skyhawk video post a few days ago, they were meant to be links not imbedded video)
Stuart Mackey
New Member
China is an issue that can only be viewed as potential threat militarily. As for Taiwan being an internal issue, I have always regarded Taiwan as a de facto independent nation, they just lack the courage to declare it. Any action that China take against that nation will certainly have international repercussions regardless of how anyone views their status.
Just to let you know KiwiRob as it doesnt make the MSM, in recent history there have been a number of "maritime issues" in the South China Sea involving the PRC, mainly in regards to the Philippines and Vietnam. Also there was the PRC nuke sub testing Japanese territorial waters in Nov 04 which the PRC were caught red handed by ever watchful and very defensively capable JMSDF.
Its great to see the RNZAF get good press. They have worked hard for a number of years getting the public and media on side. When Jim Barclay was CO at Whenuapei he brought in those Wings and Wheels open days that were well received with the public and press alike. A few weeks ago 40Sqd gave some disadvantaged kids from South Auckland a trip in a C-130 that made the NZ Herald. This is very good PR. About time the Navy had another open day.
Its great to see the RNZAF get good press. They have worked hard for a number of years getting the public and media on side. When Jim Barclay was CO at Whenuapei he brought in those Wings and Wheels open days that were well received with the public and press alike. A few weeks ago 40Sqd gave some disadvantaged kids from South Auckland a trip in a C-130 that made the NZ Herald. This is very good PR. About time the Navy had another open day.
As for Taiwan, as I understand it, China lost Taiwan to Japan back about 1890 after a war party due I think to a piracy problem out of TW that China ignored. As part of war repatiations Japan lost a number of its overseas territories including TW, some were given the right to self rule, while TW was left in limbo. I support TW as a democratic self ruled state.
I remember going to the Wings and Wheels open days, many years ago. Went to the Navy open day as well, only downer was I was the queue for the Oz Collins class sub, HMAS Waller IIRC, but it was closed just as I got to the front. Bummer, 2 hours in the queue for nothing.
I remember going to the Wings and Wheels open days, many years ago. Went to the Navy open day as well, only downer was I was the queue for the Oz Collins class sub, HMAS Waller IIRC, but it was closed just as I got to the front. Bummer, 2 hours in the queue for nothing.
Taiwan was ceded to Japan after the 1894-95 war. It was not left in limbo after WW2, but returned to China. It owes its present status to the post-WW2 civil war in China between the Kuomintang & Communists. The KMT lost, but retreated to the offshore islands & attempted to hold them. The communists successfully invaded Hainan 6 months later, in May 1950, but - with the help of the US Navy standing between it & the mainland - Taiwan held out.
The Sino-Japanese war was not fought due to piracy, but conflict over influence in Korea. Invading Taiwan seems to have been an afterthought on Japans part. The war was going well, the Chinese navy had been defeated; why not seize lightly-defended Taiwan & add it to the prizes?
The only former Japanese territory which was "given the right to self-rule" immediately after WW2 was Korea, which had been formally independent until Japan annexed it in 1910. Manchuria was returned to China, assorted Pacific islands were handed over to the USA (mostly) or Australia. Wartime conquests reverted to their pre-war state.
F-15 Eagle
New Member
The whole China vs Taiwan thing has been around for more than 50 years and we know how it started, but I don't know how it will end. It could end with a war but I don't know.
Absolutely - the NZDF needs to work as hard as possible to ensure it's gets good press & creates as many opportunities as possible for public to see what they do. Open days; displays; continually updated websites - it all helps - especially when recruitment & retention is a problem.
Can't wait for the chance to see Navy's 'Protector' fleet!
Yes I think USA have made it quite clear an atttack on Taiwan WOULD see USA get involved - meaning Aussie would likely get involved - meaning NZ would um....do something I guess, perhaps send a bunch of observers!
Any such action would also likely have a 'trickle down' affect & see further de-stabilisation in SE Asia etc. To keep thids to topic of thread - this is the sort of sceanrio where our ACF would have been useful - any mess that gets flung around Asia will have some impact down here so we could have forward deployed our ACF to Nothern Territory etc and be of use to FPDA members etc. In fact that is most likely where our ACF would have been used if at all - meaning it DID in fact have a purpose! Anyway - it's gone, time to move on...
I couldn't agree more. Even small stuff would be better than nothing - bands playing in cities at lunchtimes, more parades, get the fly boys to buzz the cities a bit more, get someone on Shortie St to mention the army/navy/air force - anything that helps raise the NZDF's profile and sense of presence.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Yeah! I reckon we've been fortunate in that there's been the air force and navy tv programmes on TVNZ during the last 2 or so years (plus some good coverage on the Coastwatch programmes showing air and sea surveillance etc) and then that interesting SAS series. I guess the public (those that bothered to watch) may now have a reasonable generalised understanding of life in the armed forces, but I reckon what could make interesting viewing would be a programme or two on the NZDF on exercise eg RNZN/RNZAF on wargames with the RAN and/or Singaporians (eg the bigger FPDA exercises etc). The recent RNZN exercises with the Indians would have made interesting viewing too (especially with the large Indian expat community here in NZ). The PRT in A'stan and efforts with the locals would make a decent doco all by itself (at least the newspapers cover it occassionally. An article a couple of years ago on the kiwi commanding officer who's faith was actually Islam made interesting reading, especially the bit where he first suprised the locals and gained their trust when he went to pray with them in their mosque)!
I remember as a lad in the ATC watching a film of 75 Sqn on exercise in the Phillipines I think, showing great footage from the cockpit/chase planes and of the aircraft blowing the sxxt out of the ground targets. Talk about Boys Own stuff and all that, but, ahem, probably not PC to show these things on TV (the film was called Eagle High, made by the RNZAF, geez they had a great photographic unit back in the day. Would love to get my hands on that film again)!
Part of the problem is, I think we kiwis are too modest. Those Skyhawk vids I linked to (er posted by accident here the other day), the last vid shows the A-4's shooting down a variety of allied aircraft. Unsure if the F/A18 is RAAF or Malaysian (ok, admittedly the ROE probably gave the A-4 a handicap eg F18 turned of their superior radar and allowed the A-4's into gun range and F18's weren't using their Sparrows etc???? Or were they???) but the success of the A-4's in these scenarios were never made public - if anything the A-4's were disparaged by the pollies etc. So the public doesn't get to appreciate to see the leading edge of the NZDF, simply the papp! (Now contrast this to say, Malaysians v Singaporians or Indians v Pakistanis - they'd be celibrating if one of them got the better of the other in an exercise)!
On a more down to earth level again, some of you may have seen or not seen a recent edition of Tagata Pasifika where they had a feature on Pacific Islanders having careers in the RNZN. http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/tagata_pasifika_2007_ep13/ondemand_video_skin (for some reason it starts after a TV advert). I thought it was a good human interest item and perhaps showed up alot of other media programmes on how to make a simple but informative news article.
Last edited:
I think the A-4 tended to be underrated as a fighter. Whilst it was designed as an attack platform it was, IMO, a very good fighter bomber and in clean form was used for dissimilar air combat training by Top Gun pilots in the USN. The USN assigned Skyhawks to its ASW carriers to provide air defence and in the RAN it was an important asset for air defence as well as strike.
I think you have made a good point about the Kiwi's being too modest and not advertising or celebrating the achievements and capabilities of their defence force in comparison with what we see in other countries.
Tas
Yes the ROE is everything and they may skew the fight in one A/C or the others favor. That said it isn't a bad thing for a boggy pilot to be handed his arse on a plate by a suposedly "inferior" platform. Keeps their ego's in check and he learns the weakness in his airframe and skills without losing his life in the process.
It would be a shame if the reputation of the RNZAF Skyhawk Sqns wasn't recognised in their homeland. They were renowned for their low level flying skills in Australia, I have witnessed them first hand buzzing Tindal shortly before they were withdrawn. Also the kiwi techo's who came to the RAAF after the ACF was shutdown are of the highest calibre, a real bonus for the RAAF. They all still love their Skyhawks to.
It seems to be the way pollies work these days. I have noticed in Australia that they will suggest a course of action, eg "if the Dutch pull out of A'stan then we will need to increase our commitment or leave blah, blah, blah" or whatever. These sorts of lines are run over time, softening up the public getting them conditioned for an anouncement. Then when the time is right they make the anouncement and the public just swallows it because it is not a shock, they have been expecting this anouncement. Something similar was probably done in NZ before the Skyhawks were axed. Call me cynical but I have noticed it plenty of times on this side of the Tasman.
Hooroo
fighters
I hadn't time to read the whole tread yet, but I wonder if NZ will get fighter squadrons up and flying again- IMO they'll need to enforce EEZ and continental shelf in not too distant future. The UK recently claimed a huge chunk of South Atlantic around the Falklands & S. Georgia- the S. Pacific is another shoe to drop!
I hadn't time to read the whole tread yet, but I wonder if NZ will get fighter squadrons up and flying again- IMO they'll need to enforce EEZ and continental shelf in not too distant future. The UK recently claimed a huge chunk of South Atlantic around the Falklands & S. Georgia- the S. Pacific is another shoe to drop!
Stuart Mackey
New Member
As I have long said on such subjects "Why". If you are talking about what amounts to fishery protection 'Why' would you want an aircraft designed to combat a similar kind for air superiority?.
The question of combat aircraft such as fighters needs to be taken within the context of a nations overall strategy with respect to threats to its interests. Unless one can decide on such matters, shopping lists are quite pointless.
Stuart Mackey
New Member
Why? I assume you refer to fighter type aircraft here, what hostile nation has the capability to deploy such aircraft, in enough numbers, near enough to NZ to effectively use them against us?.
plenty
Well, it's better to look at capability, so, let's see:
Australia;
With mid-air refueling-France, USA, India, China, Indonesia, Chile. The first 3 nations may also use their carrier borne aviation. I don't include Russia as she has plenty of untapped resources in her own backyard, including the Arctic.
Well, it's better to look at capability, so, let's see:
Australia;
With mid-air refueling-France, USA, India, China, Indonesia, Chile. The first 3 nations may also use their carrier borne aviation. I don't include Russia as she has plenty of untapped resources in her own backyard, including the Arctic.
There's no point in listing countries unless they have relevance to NZ's threat matrix.
Considering that 4 of the countries you mention either have treaties or maritime protection agreements with NZ, then their relevance becomes somewhat questionable.
More to the point, what nations in NZ's threat matrix have the capability or compunction to enter her EEZ with hostile intent?
Any nation attacking NZ will automatically have Australia and the UK to deal with as a raft of obligations and treaties would trigger. As much as the US may have a political disagreement with NZ on the declaration of nuke weapons etc... the US would hardly sit back either.
Alliances
Well, they are territorial disputes between Greece and Turkey, Canada and Denmark & also USA and Canada (in the Greenland/Arctic), UK and Spain (over Gibraltar)- all are in NATO. India and Pakistan are both in the British Commonwealth, but can't agree on Kashmir. So, when there is no big external threat and there is need to secure markets/resources, etc., those treaties may go out the window!
Well, they are territorial disputes between Greece and Turkey, Canada and Denmark & also USA and Canada (in the Greenland/Arctic), UK and Spain (over Gibraltar)- all are in NATO. India and Pakistan are both in the British Commonwealth, but can't agree on Kashmir. So, when there is no big external threat and there is need to secure markets/resources, etc., those treaties may go out the window!