F/A-22: To Fly High or Get its Wings Clipped

[DarthAmerica]

The only aircraft that has any advantage in any area would be the Russia Mig-31. It can fly faster so if used correctly it would have the best chance at getting a kill against the F-22.

If the radar is big enough you can detect a stealth plane. Stealth only reduces the range it can be detected. If you reduce the radar cross section to as small as 1% of an unstealth aircraft it does not mean you will detect it at 1 mile opposed to 100 miles away.

The Mig-31 has a big nose and with a powerful radar it may very well detect an F-22 at beyond visual range. If the Mig-31 did detect an F-22 its safe to say that it would be because the F-22 had just launched a missile. The Mig-31 may be able to get a lock and fire off a missile before it gets shot down.

Its not quite that simple. The kinematics of the F-22 would seriously challenge any conventional BVR missile even if it could lock on. Moreover, the missile seeker itself would have to be able to lock on during the terminal phase and by definition missile seekers are small. Not only that, the SA advantage of the F-22 would allow it to dictate the terms of an engagement.

-DA

 

[lozza]

F22b

I have heard that the F22B has the capability to carry more or different weapons than the F22A. I have seen it described as being similar to the F111.
That is, in it's capability's to carry several types of weapons.
Would this be a better variant or am i way of the mark.
thanks

 

[gf0012-aust]

I have heard that the F22B has the capability to carry more or different weapons than the F22A. I have seen it described as being similar to the F111.
That is, in it's capability's to carry several types of weapons.
Would this be a better variant or am i way of the mark.
thanks

G'day Iozza.

The F-22B is a paper plane only at this stage.

 

[lozza]

gday

G'day Iozza.

The F-22B is a paper plane only at this stage.

Thanks gfoo12-aust, they must of been just some preety pitcures.
oh by the by, lozza is with a L or l, it's not a I

 

[XaNDeR]

True stealth has advantages , but one must not completly understand that stealth makes the aircraft invisible , but only decreases the range that it can be detected so it can succesfully complete its objective without penetrating the enemy range of detection.
And not much stealth as also ECM are improving to ensure aircraft survivability in the future as much as they can , conventional aircraft can not operate well in enemy territory where they can be detected , but stealth can because the range of detection will be decreased and the aircraft can succesfully evade the range of detection until it meets its objective , either it is a ground target or whatever.
The F-22 Raptor does not only give total air superiority but can also deliver air to ground weapons and attack ground targets , which is very usefull allthough when the F-35 will come in service it will be its primary task to do the job.

To counter stealth , radar will have to increase its range , if the stealth aircraft reduces RCS by 100 ,then radar will have to increase its for 100 fold.
Increasing power is easier at long wavelengths as fast frequencies are mostly used for fire control. Ultrawide band radar poses a similar problem. An ultrawide band pulse could emit waves at several different frequencies hoping to catch the stealth aircraft at a weak point in its RCS reduction. However, transmitting over a wide band diminishes the power in each band, cutting the efficiency of the radar.
The second thing is that stealth aircraft are designed against monostatic radars , ones that are used nearly in all military systems.
Monostatic radar uses transmitter and receiver at same place , and in theory a bistatic radar that would place transmitter somewhere else than the receiver might pick up trailing RCS that is directed from the monostatic radar, but there are many technical issues to make , RCS beam has to intercept transmit beam and folow the pulsi which is moving super fast so they need to be synchronized.
And the improvements will have to go very far until the radar can sucesfully counter stealth tehnology.
Personaly I know that S-400 is sucesfull in detecting and engaging stealth aircraft , but at what range will the aircraft be illuminated??

 

[Viktor]

Did you see the size of vertical stabilizators on F-22??

So mutch about stealth ... only front aspect!

Besides even if F-22 turn off its radar EM leachage will give it away ... there are system that can detect EM anomaly and with triangulation can determine its position ...and althrow there are small chanches of F-22 being shoot down after being discovered just to make him abort mission would be success.

 

[DarthAmerica]

Did you see the size of vertical stabilizators on F-22??

So mutch about stealth ... only front aspect!

Besides even if F-22 turn off its radar EM leachage will give it away ... there are system that can detect EM anomaly and with triangulation can determine its position ...and althrow there are small chanches of F-22 being shoot down after being discovered just to make him abort mission would be success.

The F-22 stealth capabilities are not only in the front aspect. Its publically acknowledged to be all aspect wide band stealth. Its stealth features are known to include extensive emissions control and LPI radar.

http://www.f22-raptor.com/technology/stealth.html

-DA

 

[ELP]

What also makes the F-22 is the AN/ALR-94. However you are getting some of that wonderful similar/same passive cueing of AMRAAM and location of threat ability with the JSF and Block 2 Super.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Pentagon says to spend F-22 money on F-15s

The Pentagon’s top budget official told the Air Force this week to hold off spending $497 million in fiscal 2009 to begin shutting down the F-22 production line and spend it instead on repairing F-15s, two-thirds of which are grounded.
USA Today reported that Pentagon Comptroller Tina Jonas informed Air Force leaders of the change in a memo this week.
An Air Force official, speaking on background, confirmed Friday that the service has been directed by the Pentagon to reprogram the funds, but the official did not immediately have further details.
More than 400 F-15s remain grounded after the Nov. 2 crash of an F-15C, but the Air Force has not announced whether large-scale repairs will be necessary. An investigation into the crash is ongoing.
The move appears to be a change of course for the Pentagon, which another Air Force official recently said had given the Air Force permission to use the funds to purchase long-lead-time items so the Air Force and Congress could have the option of buying an additional 20 aircraft beyond the currently authorized 183.
Congress originally suggested the idea in the report accompanying the 2008 defense spending bill.
If the funds are instead rerouted to pay for F-15 repairs, it is unclear how that might affect the future of the F-22 line.
Lockheed Martin is under contract to deliver in 2011 the last of the 183 F-22s ordered, but the Air Force has long maintained that it needs 381 of the aircraft. F-22s cost an inflation-adjusted $195 million each, not including research and development.



Here is the link itself. http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/12/airforce_f22_budget_071221/

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I don't know what to make of this here, its says that the money used to shut down the F-22 line 2009 will be used to repair the F-15 fleet, but does that mean the F-22 line will continue? Its weird because there is no money to continue the F-22 line and there is no money to shut it down ether so whats going to happen? Will they put more money in? Will they cap the F-22 program 183 jets and keep 178 F-15C? Or will they build more F-22 to replace the F-15C?

 

[eaf-f16]

I don't know what to make of this here, its says that the money used to shut down the F-22 line 2009 will be used to repair the F-15 fleet, but does that mean the F-22 line will continue? Its weird because there is no money to continue the F-22 line and there is no money to shut it down ether so whats going to happen? Will they put more money in? Will they cap the F-22 program 183 jets and keep 178 F-15C? Or will they build more F-22 to replace the F-15C?

How about they just sell the F-22 to Japan and get this over with? The Japanese just suspended their next-gen fighter program until the F-35 becuase the US doesn't want to give them F-22 and no other fighter meets their requirements. Not even the Eurofighter.

 

[sunjerem]

How about they just sell the F-22 to Japan and get this over with? The Japanese just suspended their next-gen fighter program until the F-35 becuase the US doesn't want to give them F-22 and no other fighter meets their requirements. Not even the Eurofighter.

Japan and Germany are not allowed by US to develop nor acquire 5th generation stealth fighters, because technically both countries are under occupation by US forces after starting world wars. I don't think money is the issue for F-22. After all, US pumped out thousands and thousands of fighters and bombers to fight Axis powers in WW2, with thousands of P-38's manufactured even though the plane was deemed too expensive to produced pre-war. If there is a WW3, you can be sure more than 5000 F-22's would be manufactured in months. BTW, I kinda like the next generation F-15 Boeing is proposing. I guess 381 F-22s and a few hundred advanced F-15s can form a good hi-lo combo.

 

[kato]

because technically both countries are under occupation by US forces after starting world wars.

err, 1994 was 13 years ago...

(even though they only changed the signs to the bases)

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Looks like the air force will have to make do with 183 F-22, 178 F-15C, 224 F-15E and the F-35. Since the U.S. DOD is too redundant to fund more F-22s even though Congress and the Air Force need more F-22s. The F-15C is expected to remain in service until at least 2025 and the F-15E will remain in service until 2035 when those units will probably transfer to the F-35. I hope the F-35 is worth the $300 billion because that is what the U.S. will use for air superiority other than the 183 F-22s by the year 2025-35. I only hope congress allows the air force at least 40 more F-22s. They have the power to force the Pentagon more F-22s so lets hope they do so. I'm kinda getting a little frustrated with the DOD because they are too stubborn and just don't get it, the F-15 is old and needs to be replaced and Russia, China, and India are building better fighters such as the PAK-FA. Lets face it, we will have to stand down the F-15 someday and actually go ahead and replace them with the F-22 and F-35.

 

[sunjerem]

err, 1994 was 13 years ago...

(even though they only changed the signs to the bases)

Holy scatalogical invective deleted. They are not occupied anymore? Get reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeady for WW3 guys. Just kidding.

Mod edit: Please mind the forum rules and watch the language.
-Preceptor

 

[sunjerem]

Looks like the air force will have to make do with 183 F-22, 178 F-15C, 224 F-15E and the F-35. Since the U.S. DOD is too redundant to fund more F-22s even though Congress and the Air Force need more F-22s. The F-15C is expected to remain in service until at least 2025 and the F-15E will remain in service until 2035 when those units will probably transfer to the F-35. I hope the F-35 is worth the $300 billion because that is what the U.S. will use for air superiority other than the 183 F-22s by the year 2025-35. I only hope congress allows the air force at least 40 more F-22s.

F-35 for air superiority? You gotta be kidding me. Sure, it's got a powerful 41000 pound engine, but it's too heavy and only Mach 1.6. It won't be able to chase Gripen let alone something like EF-2000. Though if it detects the enemy plane first, it might get on its blind spot and attack from there, but I think that scenario is not likely.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

F-35 for air superiority? You gotta be kidding me. Sure, it's got a powerful 41000 pound engine, but it's too heavy and only Mach 1.6. It won't be able to chase Gripen let alone something like EF-2000. Though if it detects the enemy plane first, it might get on its blind spot and attack from there, but I think that scenario is not likely.

I maid an edit on that post before you replied so check it out. Yes the F-35 why well what else is there they can't just replace 452 F-15 A-D with just 183 F-22 thats crazy...insane. The F-35 can carry 10 AAMs and a 25mm gun so weapons is no problem, top speed is more like 1200mph or Mach 1.8 the speed of an F-18, besides the F-15 usually never goes past Mach 1.6 in combat though if they have to they can go to Mach 2.5. The F-15 is heavier than the F-35. The air force will keep 178 F-15C to make up for the lack of F-22s until at least 2025 and receive the APG-63 V-3 AESA but what happens to them then? The F-35 will be the only fighter in production unless they restart the F-22 which is possible. The air force said the F-35 will have an air superiority role that is second only to the F-22, and 4 times more effective than legacy fighters. I think no less than 220 F-22s should be built though 381 is better.

 

[sunjerem]

You might find this interesting: http://www.raytheon.com/technology/rtn07_f15win/

All 224 F-15E's are replacing APG-70 with APG-63(V)3 AESA. That's one huge upgrade program. Furthermore, upgraded F-15E's will remain in service till 2035.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Holy scatalogical invective deleted. They are not occupied anymore? Get reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeady for WW3 guys. Just kidding.

Uh don't say the "S" word it can get you banned. Its in the forum rules.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

You might find this interesting: http://www.raytheon.com/technology/rtn07_f15win/

All 224 F-15E's are replacing APG-70 with APG-63(V)3 AESA. That's one huge upgrade program.

178 F-15C will get the V-3 well the F-15E will get the V-4.