Roleplay: African Army Buildup

[kato]

To expand on what i said above ("some halfway decent patrol boats"), here's a list of "mid-African" navies' ships believed "remotely operational" or similar.

Selected from Jane's Fighting Ships 2004-2005. Summarized it down a bit so this won't be too long.

All Navies in Africa that do not border the Mediterranean, also excluding South Africa. The reliability of these ships ranges from "has been at sea in the last 5 years" to "brand-new". About a quarter of these ships should be considered ancient; especially the PBOs are often ex-USCG 60yo cutters. Half would be old, but not ancient yet - 70s, early 80s designs. And the rest is pretty much new, 90s and 00s. The OPV listed below is relatively new for example, and pretty much identical to the Irish Roisin OPV class.

Primary warships:

• 1 frigate (3,360-ton; 8 Otomat SSM, 1 octuple Aspide SAM, 1 127mm DP, 4 twin 40mm AA, 6 12.75in TT, DC)
• 1 corvette (780-ton; 1 triple Seacat SAM, 1 twin 375mm ASW RL, 1 76mm DP, 1 40mm AA, 2 20mm AA)
• 3 FAC (430-ton; 4 Otomat or Exocet SSM, 1 76mm DP, 1-2 twin 30mm AA, 2 40mm AA or 2 20mm AA)
• 1 FAC (250-ton; 4 SS-N-2B SSM, 2 twin 30mm AA) (yes, it's an Osa)
• 2 MHSC (540-ton; 2 20mm AA) (Nigerian minehunters)

Larger/offshore patrol units:

• 1 large OPV (1,650-ton; 1 twin 40mm AA, 2 .50cal MG)
• 16 PBO/PBOH (300- to 1200-ton; small arms up to 2 25mm AA)
• 2 PG (480-ton; 1 76mm DP, 1 25mm AA)
• 2 PG (450-ton; 1 57mm DP, 1 twin 20mm AA)
• 5 PG (440-ton; 1 76mm DP, 1-2 40mm AA, 2 twin 30mm AA in some)

Coastal patrol units:

• 8 PB (210- to 310-ton; 2 40mm AA)
• 3 PB (170-ton; 2 twin 37mm AA, 2 twin 14.5mm MG)
• 5 PB (150- to 160-ton; 4 SS-12M or Gabriel II SSM, 1 40mm AA or 1 twin 30mm AA, 1 20mm AA and 2 .50cal MG in some)
• 3 PB (120-ton; 2 twin 23mm AA, 1 twin .50cal MG)
• 21 PC (40- to 90-ton; from small arms only up to SS-12M SSM and 40mm AA)

Amphibious units:

• 1 large LST (500 tons cargo) (1 40mm AA, 1 20mm AA)
• 9 medium LST (300-350 tons cargo) (from 2 20mm AA up to 2 40mm AA, 2 81mm mortars)
• 3 large LCM (90 tons cargo) (small arms)
• 2 small LCM (50 tons cargo) (small arms)

 

[contedicavour]

Problem there - none left

Well, not true really: Germany has 4 of them left - but those are being cannibalized for spare parts for Type 143A craft. With two Type 143A crashing earlier this year, and needing new hull parts and machinery, there won't be much left of those 4 in stocks either.



I'd grab up 12-16 French P400 class OPV/PB. Not even used, but new maybe. Gabon already has two similar builds btw. They're almost perfect for Africa, especially with their auxiliary light logistics/cargo function, and rugged systems designed for the area.
Maybe configure a few for actual combat (remove aft 20mm gun, slap four Gabriel III or some such in place), but for EEZ patrol and other peacetime duties they're almost perfect despite the age of the design and their low displacement.


... where do you get 12 used Hawk batteries from?

That's 72 launchers,total over 400 vehicles and 3000 tons material, about 4000 soldiers. France had massive problems moving a single reinforced Hawk battery to N'djamena in Chad in 1986.
Germany, in Cold War glory, operated 12 Hawk batteries (in 4 battalions), the Netherlands had 12 too.


The other stuff looks pretty good

Actually I meant 12 Hawk launchers, not batteries, oops ... and there will be a lot left second hand once SAMP-T becomes operational in the Italian and French armies.

Isn't Germany selling Type 143A as soon as the K130 enter service ? Those are fine ships for patrolling.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

To expand on what i said above ("some halfway decent patrol boats"), here's a list of "mid-African" navies' ships believed "remotely operational" or similar.

Selected from Jane's Fighting Ships 2004-2005. Summarized it down a bit so this won't be too long.

All Navies in Africa that do not border the Mediterranean, also excluding South Africa. The reliability of these ships ranges from "has been at sea in the last 5 years" to "brand-new". About a quarter of these ships should be considered ancient; especially the PBOs are often ex-USCG 60yo cutters. Half would be old, but not ancient yet - 70s, early 80s designs. And the rest is pretty much new, 90s and 00s. The OPV listed below is relatively new for example, and pretty much identical to the Irish Roisin OPV class.

Primary warships:

• 1 frigate (3,360-ton; 8 Otomat SSM, 1 octuple Aspide SAM, 1 127mm DP, 4 twin 40mm AA, 6 12.75in TT, DC)
• 1 corvette (780-ton; 1 triple Seacat SAM, 1 twin 375mm ASW RL, 1 76mm DP, 1 40mm AA, 2 20mm AA)
• 3 FAC (430-ton; 4 Otomat or Exocet SSM, 1 76mm DP, 1-2 twin 30mm AA, 2 40mm AA or 2 20mm AA)
• 1 FAC (250-ton; 4 SS-N-2B SSM, 2 twin 30mm AA) (yes, it's an Osa)
• 2 MHSC (540-ton; 2 20mm AA) (Nigerian minehunters)

Larger/offshore patrol units:

• 1 large OPV (1,650-ton; 1 twin 40mm AA, 2 .50cal MG)
• 16 PBO/PBOH (300- to 1200-ton; small arms up to 2 25mm AA)
• 2 PG (480-ton; 1 76mm DP, 1 25mm AA)
• 2 PG (450-ton; 1 57mm DP, 1 twin 20mm AA)
• 5 PG (440-ton; 1 76mm DP, 1-2 40mm AA, 2 twin 30mm AA in some)

Coastal patrol units:

• 8 PB (210- to 310-ton; 2 40mm AA)
• 3 PB (170-ton; 2 twin 37mm AA, 2 twin 14.5mm MG)
• 5 PB (150- to 160-ton; 4 SS-12M or Gabriel II SSM, 1 40mm AA or 1 twin 30mm AA, 1 20mm AA and 2 .50cal MG in some)
• 3 PB (120-ton; 2 twin 23mm AA, 1 twin .50cal MG)
• 21 PC (40- to 90-ton; from small arms only up to SS-12M SSM and 40mm AA)

Amphibious units:

• 1 large LST (500 tons cargo) (1 40mm AA, 1 20mm AA)
• 9 medium LST (300-350 tons cargo) (from 2 20mm AA up to 2 40mm AA, 2 81mm mortars)
• 3 large LCM (90 tons cargo) (small arms)
• 2 small LCM (50 tons cargo) (small arms)

Most of this material belongs to the Nigerian navy. While the Arady FFG has been seen in England recently, it has a reputation of breaking down very often (it ran aground a couple of years ago) and there are serious doubts that any of its missile systems is operational. Otomat Mk1 certainly require update to function.
The corvette (the one with seacat) hasn't sailed in ages despite cannibalizing its sister ship. The 3 remaining FAC(M)s don't have SSMs aboard anymore and another one broke down recently on its way back from Liberia.
The LST has its bow doors welded shut and is more a cargo ship now than a LST.
Nigeria desperately needs new investment. The only new material so far comes from Italy (3 A109 helos and a couple of ATR72 maritime patrol aircrafts).
What's most urgently needed is a fleet of 76mm armed OPVHs to help patrol the offshore oil rigs.

cheers

 

[kato]

Isn't Germany selling Type 143A as soon as the K130 enter service ? Those are fine ships for patrolling.

Nope. The K130 are actually "replacements" for older FACs (Type 148 and Type 143) that are already decommissioned.
The Type 143A are supposed to stay in service until... well, until they sink, pretty much. Minimum 2015+, by which time their hulls will be over 40 years old. Probably until 2020, unless they'll get rid of them without replacement.

K130 was originally supposed to come in three 5-ship batches - the first batch for the 20 Type 148, second for 10 Type 143, third for 10 Type 143A. Funding has prevented that plan, and it's thought of as a "reasonable compromise" to only build the first batch K130, and keep the Type 143A in service. The Navy really wants a second 5-ship batch of course, but i don't see anything like that happening before 2015-2017 due to funding.

In addition, the Marinearsenal keeps four Type 143 (with identical hull) in reserve to serve as spare parts hulks for the Type 143A. All other Type 143 were sold to Tunisia.

 

[contedicavour]

Nope. The K130 are actually "replacements" for older FACs (Type 148 and Type 143) that are already decommissioned.
The Type 143A are supposed to stay in service until... well, until they sink, pretty much. Minimum 2015+, by which time their hulls will be over 40 years old. Probably until 2020, unless they'll get rid of them without replacement.

K130 was originally supposed to come in three 5-ship batches - the first batch for the 20 Type 148, second for 10 Type 143, third for 10 Type 143A. Funding has prevented that plan, and it's thought of as a "reasonable compromise" to only build the first batch K130, and keep the Type 143A in service. The Navy really wants a second 5-ship batch of course, but i don't see anything like that happening before 2015-2017 due to funding.

In addition, the Marinearsenal keeps four Type 143 (with identical hull) in reserve to serve as spare parts hulks for the Type 143A. All other Type 143 were sold to Tunisia.

Thks, very interesting.
Did you sell to Tunisia Exocets (MM38 or MM40) with the Type143s ?

cheers

 

[kato]

Did you sell to Tunisia Exocets (MM38 or MM40) with the Type143s ?

No Exocets for the Tunisian Type 143. They operate them with the two 76mm and two HMG mounts as pure patrol units.

The MM38 on the Type 143 iirc had reached end of shelf life. The two stern-firing 21-inch torpedo tubes (already usually not carried in 90s German use) afaik were also not delivered to Tunisia.

With Type 143A, it'd get even a bit trickier - since you'd presumably have to rip out the RAM launcher to sell them (joint US/German source, would be problematic otherwise). Plus the ablative armour installed on the deck behind the RAM launcher (to protect the Exocet launchers from exhaust). Also, half the electronics would probably have to be removed - the Type 143A were considerably refitted with more modern electronics than the Type 143; for example, Type 143A carries a FL-1800 Mk2 ESM/ECM system also used on (current!) German frigates, while the Type 143 carried a far more simple system.

So any buying nation would pretty much end up with a 35-year-old Commandante II or FPB57 hull (since that's an entire hull family with the Type 148/143/143A as well), highly destabilized through removal of about 10 tons of weapons aft; with a modern navigation radar and maybe some cobbled-together 25yo FCS - and a single 76mm gun as sole armament.

Not too attractive really.

 

[contedicavour]

No Exocets for the Tunisian Type 143. They operate them with the two 76mm and two HMG mounts as pure patrol units.

The MM38 on the Type 143 iirc had reached end of shelf life. The two stern-firing 21-inch torpedo tubes (already usually not carried in 90s German use) afaik were also not delivered to Tunisia.

With Type 143A, it'd get even a bit trickier - since you'd presumably have to rip out the RAM launcher to sell them (joint US/German source, would be problematic otherwise). Plus the ablative armour installed on the deck behind the RAM launcher (to protect the Exocet launchers from exhaust). Also, half the electronics would probably have to be removed - the Type 143A were considerably refitted with more modern electronics than the Type 143; for example, Type 143A carries a FL-1800 Mk2 ESM/ECM system also used on (current!) German frigates, while the Type 143 carried a far more simple system.

So any buying nation would pretty much end up with a 35-year-old Commandante II or FPB57 hull (since that's an entire hull family with the Type 148/143/143A as well), highly destabilized through removal of about 10 tons of weapons aft; with a modern navigation radar and maybe some cobbled-together 25yo FCS - and a single 76mm gun as sole armament.

Not too attractive really.

Overall good news for us Italians since despite cordial government to government relations with Tunisia there have been several confrontations between the Italian Coast Guard (sometimes even the Navy) and Tunisian patrol ships. I wouldn't want a brand new Comandanti OPVH to receive an old MM38 in the funnels

cheers

 

[KevinB]

Good thread.

DT Defense Consultants Report

A few facts that I'm adding to the scenario first:

Over 5 years, if we use the Swiss defense budget as a guide, I have $15.5 billion to spend, which I'm rounding up to $16 billion due to economic activity over the next five years.

I'm estimating that before this assignment, there were at least 200,000 men in the army alone with varying states of training and competence.

However, just taking a look of the equipment available to work with, there's a lot to work with already.

First thing I did is I came up with a structure of how I want the army to look like:

Army​

2 Armored brigades
3 Mechanized brigades
3 Motorized brigades
1 Air Assault brigade

Air Force​

3x18 Fighter squadrons
2x14 Attack squadrons
2x14 Jet Trainer squadrons
2x14 Basic Flight trainer squadrons
Various transport and helicopter capabilities

Then I equipped them:

Army​

70,000 men
288 T-55/Type 59s modified to IDF Tiran 5
190 Achzarit APC (formerly T-55/Type 59s)
190 BMP-1 IFV
190 BMP-2 IFV (mostly used)
76 PT-76 Israeli-modified with 90mm gun, new engine, and targeting systems
120 BRDM-2 in various variants
64 Raad 2 155mm SP gun (Iranian knockoff of M109 SP gun) w/ 16 BL-904 counterbattery radar systems from China.
64 BM-21 122mm MRL (mostly used)
64 Type 95 SPAA/SAM
200 SA-16 MANPADs
600 Toophan 1/2 ATGM (Iranian knockoff of TOW ATGM)
5,000 Land Rover 4x4s and Unimog trucks
Assualt Rifle: Beryl Mod. 96 (Polish AK-74 clone chambered in 5.56 NATO)
Sniper Rifle: G3s modified with scopes and full-auto function removed
Sidearm: Glock 17
SAW: Negev LMG
GPMG: Pakistan Ordnance Industries licensed copy of MG-3
Support Weapons: RPG-7, 60 and 81 mm mortars
Heavy Machine Gun: POI copy of Chinese Type 54 in 12.7mm Soviet

Army Reserves​

40,000 men
84 PT-76s unmodified
130 BMP-1s
100 D-30 122mm howitzer
75 Type 86 100mm anti-tank guns
600 HJ-73 ATGMs
210 QW-2 MANPADs
Assualt rifle: AK-47
All other weapons: war left overs

I decided to go with mostly modified Chinese and Soviet weapons because of the Ebonians familiarity with them. We gave the bulk of modification contracts to Israel because of their experience with this type of job. We also procured Iranian, Pakistani, and Israeli weapons because of their cost and reliability. In the regular army, I emphasized mobility of forces and rapid response. The Tiran 5s should be able to hold their own against most types of MBTs in use in Africa. I decided to purchase BMP-2s to augment the BMP-1s because is many nations that use both vehicles deploy them together to compliment each other. I went with the Raad 2 because of the M109 is a well regarded and proven artillery piece. The Toophan series saw combat along the Israeli-Lebanon border and knocked out Merkava IV MBTs, so when we had to chance to procure some; we did.

Finally, the most important aspect is the establishment of the part-time reserve force. If the regular army is decimated in the early stages of war, the losses can be replaced.

More on the rebuilding Ebonia's army later....it's late.

Looking back on this, I missed a few things:

1) 30 L118 105mm light guns to equip the air assualt brigade
2) 15 Haseb 107mm MRLS (Iranian-made Type 63 MRLS) for the air assualt brigade
3) Micro-Uzi 9mm submachine guns for non-front line troops

 

[Aussie Digger]

Looking back on this, I missed a few things:

3) Micro-Uzi 9mm submachine guns for non-front line troops

Why on Earth, would you want to equip your non-front line troops with such a militarily ineffective weapon, whilst simultaneously adding another weapon system that must be supported?

You will be flat out finding a major combat rifle in this day and age that does not come with a carbine version. The SA-80 possibly, being the only one I can think of, offhand.

Why you'd want an AK-74 knock off chambered for 5.56mm is beyond me as well, but surely that Polish firearm manufacturer can make you an AKS-74U or similar chambered for 5.56mm so that you can have a bit of commonality between your forces and some common training standards, not mention ammunition supply issues?

 

[kato]

I'm bored, so i'm gonna expand a bit on my post from page 2. Warning, long post

And yeah, i grew bored with the post near the end, so by that time it's just repeating my earlier post lol.

Not going into small arms. The idea of the below is to somewhat clear up the supply chains by territory.

__________________________________________________________


Territorial Army
I. Northern Division
II. Central Division
III. Southern Division

Three infantry divisions for local stuff. Standard layout:
- Recon Bat
- 3x Light Infantry Bat
- 2x Engineer Bat
- Artillery Rgt
- Anti-Tank Bat
- Training Bat (wartime role: 4th infantry bat)
- Logistics/Maintenance Rgt
- Aviation Rgt
plus staff of course

Each of these Territorial Divisional Commands gets about:
- 500 medium/heavy trucks
- 40 PT-76 light tanks
- 40 BRDM-2
- 30 D-30 howitzers
- 30 120mm mortars (new)
- 20 Type 86 guns
- 70 HJ-73 ATGM (interim solution)
- 20 An-2/Y-5 liaison/spotter aircraft
- 10 Mi-8 multi-purpose attack helos

Manpower around 7,500 men per such division, 22,500 total including around 1,500 conscripts-in-training.


__________________________________________________________

Mobile Army
(per primary stationing)

North:
Mechanized Infantry Brigade
ea Light Cavalry Bat, 2x Mechanized Inf Bat (Type 63), Eng Bat, Artillery Bat, Air-Defence Coy

- 100 medium trucks
- 100 Type 63 APCs
- 50 Type 62 light tanks
- 50 HJ-73 ATGM (interim solution)
- 50 QW-2 SAM
- 30 howitzers (new)

Central:
Light Infantry Brigade
ea Cavalry Bat, 3x Light Infantry Bat, Eng Bat, Artillery Bat, Air-Defence Coy

- 50 T-55 MBT (interim solution)
- 250 medium trucks
- 30 HJ-73 ATGM (interim solution)
- 30 howitzers (new)
- 60 120mm mortars (new)
- 50 QW-2 SAM

South:
2x Armor Division
ea 2x Cavalry Bat, 2x Mechanized Inf Bat, Eng Bat, Artillery Bat, Air-Defence Coy

- 200 Type 59 MBT
- 200 BMP-1
- 200 medium trucks
- 100 HJ-73 ATGM (interim solution)
- 100 QW-2 SAM
- 40 T6 SPH (new)
- 40 120mm mortars (new)

Total Manpower for the "Mobile Army": 14,500.

__________________________________________________________

Airforce
(per primary stationing)

North:

Fighter Wing (36 J-7) (interim solution)
Transport Sq (8 An-26, 8 An-2/Y-5)

Central:

Fighter Squadron (16 MiG-21) (interim solution)
Training/Attack Sq (16 L-39) (interim solution)

South:

Fighter Wing (25 Mirage 5)
Training Sq (16 Zlin) (interim solution)
Training/Attack Sq (16 L-39) (interim solution)
SAR Sq (8 Super Puma, 4 An-2/Y-5 liaison/spotter aircraft)
Transport Sq (5 Lear Jet)
Transport Sq (7 An-26, 6 An-2/Y-5)

Manpower Airforce: around 3,000.

__________________________________________________________

Navy

Ground Forces

2x Coastal Missile Artillery Bat (ea 20 CSS-N-5 AShM, 100 medium/heavy trucks, 10 120mm mortars)
2x Light Infantry Bat (100 medium trucks, 20 HJ-73 ATGM, 30 SA-16 SAM)
Navy Artillery Bat (20 howitzers (new), 30 BMP-1 rebuilt as prime movers)

Naval Forces

3x Patrol Squadron (ea 5 Shanghai-II w/o missiles) (interim solution)
3x Patrol Squadron (ea 4 OSA-1 w/o missiles)
2x Missile Boat Squadron (ea 5 Huangfeng)

plus about 10 rebuilt Shanghai-II used as coastal support/logistics vessels.

Manpower Navy including ground forces: around 4,000.


__________________________________________________________


Upgrades / Immediate Acquisition

Above labeled as "new" (to be bought as soon as possible):
- 170 mortars (120mm)
- 80 FH-77 howitzers (155mm)
- 40 T6 SPH (155mm)

Above labeled as "interim solution" (medium-term replacement):
- 250 HJ-73 ATGM: replace with Milan.
- 50 T-55 MBT: replace with cheap Ukrainian tank.
- 15 Shanghai-II PB: replace two squadrons with OPVs, third with French A69 Avisos.
- 36 J-7: replace with 36 used Su-27
- 16 MiG-21: replace with 12 used Su-27
- 32 L-39: replace with 32 L-159
- 16 Zlin: replace with 12 PC-9

Medium-to-Long-Term Additional Acquisition
- Air Defense Systems.
- Surveillance Systems.
- Recon (UAV) Systems.

Long-Term Upgrades/Replacements

- Replace Type 63 APC with South-African iKlwa APC.
- Replace Type 62 LT with South-African iKlwa IFV with 30mm gun and ATGM mounted (role: Armed Recon).
- Upgrade BMP-1 IFV to MLI-84M configuration.
- Upgrade Type 59 MBT with 105mm gun and other extras, or replace as with T-55.
- Replace Huangfeng FAC squadrons with a few second-hand corvettes or frigates.
- Replace An-2/Y-5 in most units with second-hand Mi-8 or Super Puma.

 

[KevinB]

Why on Earth, would you want to equip your non-front line troops with such a militarily ineffective weapon, whilst simultaneously adding another weapon system that must be supported?

You will be flat out finding a major combat rifle in this day and age that does not come with a carbine version. The SA-80 possibly, being the only one I can think of, offhand.

Why you'd want an AK-74 knock off chambered for 5.56mm is beyond me as well, but surely that Polish firearm manufacturer can make you an AKS-74U or similar chambered for 5.56mm so that you can have a bit of commonality between your forces and some common training standards, not mention ammunition supply issues?

Point taken.