Roleplay: African Army Buildup

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
A fourth branch for the Ebonian Defence Force

Here are my thoughts on the 4th branch of the Ebonian Defence Force that would need significant investment. Unfortunately, I suspect this branch would be the most difficult to develope, and require the most amount of effort and time, while not providing visible, tangible results. This fourth branh I refer to is the "Support" branch.

Speaking in general terms, the Support branch would cover everything a defence needs in order to operate combat elements.

As I see it, given the starting condition of much of Ebonia's equipment, money, time and effort would need to be directed at training personnel to be the needed mechanics, technicians, engineers, etc. I would see much of this being done by sending some of the best/brightest out of the country to be educated on the specific systems by foreign militaries/defence co's. Simultaneously, a training program would need to be started to grow the capability to conduct much of the needed training within Ebonia in the future.

I'll have to return to this later, it's late...:sleepy2

-Cheers
 

Manfred

New Member
Speaking of support, I forgot to mention one thing-

CHeck the warehouses. Third world countries have a terrible habbit of letting their logistics for to peices. Have a good look around and you will probably be able to save a lot of money. Who knows, you might even be able to keep your submarine running (could be worththile deterent, if that Muslim nation to the north has any sea-going interests at all).
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I think most areas have been covered very well. I would consolidate the airforce to the mirage v,s (strike/anti ship)
Seek surplus Kfir C7,s or C10,s for AD
Seek surplus (Isreali,Singapore) A4,s CAS.
Seek 2nd hand pumas x at least 12

Purchase a submarine/s (assuming there is still a cadre of trained personel)
Concentrate navy funds on this force whist maintaining maritime surveilence with fast patrol boats and UAV,s from Pakistan/Isreal.

Upgrade T55,s to APC (as suggested by AD)
Consolidate trucks,and seek 2nd hand Unimogs.
establish a very efficient field supply Bn.
Establish an efficient logistics base.
Establish a Commando/air mobile brigade.
Maintain a light INF division and cross train them to work with APC,s as well as close country tactics.concentrate Minor inf tactics at section level.

i know that the A4,s and Kfirs use US engines and equipment,but if sourced from Isreal,along with spares,i doubt the US would do anything about it. Also arm the AF with Isreali wpns.
Army to esablish a munitions factory ASAP.
 
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A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Army to esablish a munitions factory ASAP.
Ammunition can be obtained easily enough. Most of Ebonia's 7.62mm (Short) ammunition requirements could be easily met by China (who make some excellent ammunition at least), as could initial stocks of 122mm artillery ammunition, RPG rounds etc.

I think switching to NATO standards would eventually prove to be a more capable and sustainable force structure. The USA would not remain aloof forever, particular if Ebonia maintained a pro-Western foreign policy stance, became a politically stable Democracy and a force for "good" in Africa by deploying or even leading regional peace keeping operations in "fallen" states.

This sort of Country in Africa would be of far more interest to the US politically, than any minor disputes over oil...
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Okay, i'm gonna try to string this up from the reverse: not "what do i have, what do i need", but "what do i need, what do i have, how can i improve on that". Any pre-existing equipment not mentioned below is deprecated; sold, scrapped or cannibalized.

The North:
Vast steppes. A potentially hostile situation with a neighbor. Comparably low population density, and mobile insurgent forces in the area. What we need here is a highly mobile ground force, with effective air recon and support forces. Something that can patrol a large territory, but can also respond to certain limits to enemy incursions or localized hostile strongholds and attacks (of rebels). I'd propose stationing several regiments/brigades worth here, mostly fast wheeled vehicles for transport, but with some limited mobile heavy firepower component. These would initially use the BRDM-2 (or BTR-40) and the Type 62 light tanks primarily for armored vehicles, and would maybe have a mechanized infantry unit with Type 63 APC as well for now. Additional units would use light trucks with machine guns. Airborne direct support for these units would be established by distributing regiments with An-2 aircraft, and one Mi-8 transport squadron in the area. ATGM and MANPADs would be organic for these units.

The Central Area:
Tropical Forest. Insurgents. No hostile neighbor in the area, and the terrain wouldn't be prone to a fast-grab action by an enemy anyway. Small units. Mobility. Establish only a handful of strongpoints in this area, focused around airfields. An-2 and Mi-8 units for transport/support, otherwise mostly infantry in trucks, as well as light artillery units (D-30 or Type-86) and maybe a single T-55 or Type-59 bataillon.

The South:
Hills, rivers, moderate terrain with forests. High population density. Classic armor / mechanized infantry approach with T-55/Type-59 and BMP-1 stationed around here, but able to deploy to the north and east (built strategic roads through the forests). Maybe one mobile unit as above for the Steppes, as well as a handful light armor bataillons with PT-76. Artillery units organic to the above units. Organic MANPADs and ATGM units.

That's the primary territorial forces. With me so far? Now, what else do we need... Oh yeah, SAR. Those 8 Super Pumas sound nice for that,
maybe backed up with a few recon aircraft.

Airforce: For now, keep the MiG-21, Mirage 5, J-7, An-26, Lear Jets, most of the L-39 and a few Zlin. Helos as stated above.
Navy: Keep at least half of the Shanghai-II, and maybe a handful Huangfeng and OSA-I, depending on condition, as well as the CSS-N-5 missiles. Rip the SS-N-2C out of the Huangfeng and OSAs, we won't need them anyway and i doubt they're usable. Use primarily for EEZ patrol and anti-insurgent operations along the coast.

So, now we have consolidated a halfway decent force out of our existing inventory, let's work on improving that. Let's identify the problems most needed to be addressed:

Priority 1:
a) - a new light aircraft, for recon/patrol/light-support duties, and training.
b) - upgrading fighter squadrons
c) - addressing new army light vehicles
Priority 2:
a) - High-sea capable ships for the Navy
b) - obtaining a high-endurance recon capability (drones)
c) - obtaining a limited medium-range air-defence capability
d) - establishing a surveillance / air-defence network
Priority 3:
a) - addressing new army heavy vehicles
b) - modernizing artillery

now, for the attempt at solving this. numbers as above.

1a) - we have four squadrons; a need for at least 40-50 aircraft. trying to get the 47 Czech L-159 (for cheap) would be perfect for this. Add some 10-15 Pilatus PC-9 for training.
1b) - six squadrons established, very mixed outfit, all comparably outdated. tough one, cuz this will be pricy. Buy Russian, some 50 used Su-27 or so, replacing your MiG-21 and J-7. Keep the Mirage 5 in service.
1c) - we want better relations with France, right? Second-hand P4, ACMAT/VLRA and GBC-180, in all kinds of variants. Several thousand in total.

2a) - France is getting rid of its Avisos. Buy 5-6 of them, cheap. Remove Exocet, torpedoes and ASW RL. Try to obtain a decent light missile suite for these, maybe Israeli (Barak, Gabriel). Ships should still have enough life in em for some 15-20 years of EEZ patrol duty. In addition to these, obtain two larger frigates, second-hand. Maybe two British Type 22 Batch 3, though this would have to wait until way down the line. Maybe as a prestige buy right before my 5 years are up, or a "future project" for the next 5-year plan.
2b) - Used German or French CL-289 drones. Should be enough, and cheap. Israel and Pakistan might also have good alternatives.
2c) - Germany still has a few dozen I-Hawk systems stored somewhere. Try to get them to donate these to you. French Rolands might also fly, especially older units on AMX-30 hulls.
2d) - Same as 2c)

3a) - Mmmm. Buy up half the French reserve stock of old AMX-30B2 if possible. That would be about 200. Add several hundred South African iKlwa APC/IFV in various configurations, as long as they're cheap. Have Israel upgrade your BMP-1 similarly to the Romanian MLI-84M. Get the Chinese to give you a minor upgrade on the Type-59, and try to find 105mm NATO guns for them (Ukraine?). Modify most T-55 hulls as engineering vehicles and similar.
3b) - Used FH-77 howitzers to upgrade my towed artillery capability severely, backed up with modified South African T-6 155mm turrets on some of my crappy T-55 hulls. Grabbing used German LARS 110mm rocket launchers might also be an additional option.

[4) - replacement of at least half the An-2 with helos might be an issue in the long term, but definitely not for the next few years]
[5) - ATGM and MANPADs would be an issue in the medium term as well. Go for Mistral, Milan 2 and HOT if the French offer]
[6) - support helos: deal might open up with used German Bo-105, or French Gazelles within a few years. whether you should pick these up would be heavily depended on condition of the aircraft. same might go with e.g. C-160 transports, Breguet Atlantique MPAs, or additional Mi-8]
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Continuing on the support theme

Okay here's some ideas I would too tired to really get into.

With the Ebonian Army largely being experienced at fighting, I'd expect that the small unit tactics are up to scratch, at least for infantry. What would be a good investment IMV (and again, not all that flashy unlike the new kit) would be to request/hire consultants and foreign military trainers to build skills in areas the defence force is weak in. Take tank/armoured warfare tactics. Given the poor condition of the current tank inventory, it's likely that they haven't been used operationally. By extension, it's likely that the soldiers couldn't use tanks effectively if they had properly functioning ones.

Have the trainers/consultants teach personnel both how to operate and maintain the new equipment, as well as teaching them the way to make best use of them. For example, if ambushing tanks in a narrow canyon/gully with ATGMs, it might make more sense to target the lead and tail tanks, potentially trapping the rest of the formation.

As the overall knowledge base and experience with more advanced systems takes hold, then perhaps additional, more advanced systems could be added. At present, I don't think it likely that Ebonia could operate things like UAVs efficiently enough to be really useful. As the comm systems and battlespace management improves, then UAVs would have a place.

Two other ideas that would improve the Ebonian Defence Force, as well as the situation of Ebonia would be to expand the fixed airlift capacity and to build a decently sized modern naval base, and to use these as follows.

By working to increase the tactical airlift capacity past just what Ebonia would use initially, capacity could be dedicated for UN or African Union use in Africa. This would allow increased participation and visibility internationally while providing a useful capability, as well as some operational experience.

By building a modern naval base/facility and then opening it to visits by foreign navies (USN, Royal Navy, etc) that could assist in getting the Ebonian Navy experience operating and interacting with foreign powers.

That's all for now.

-Cheers
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Actually, with a bit more thought, these in my opinion are what would SERIOUSLY make a difference in capability within the Ebonian Defence Forces:

A) A serious investment in ammunition and logistical support for existing capabilities.

B) a serious investment in "night fighting" capabilities throughout the Ebonian Defence Forces. (The investment in such TRULY allowed Australian forces to "over match" their assymetric and Indonesian rivals during the Interfet Operation).

C) Dedicated investment in "protected mobility" assets. The ability to maneuvre is critical in most warfighting scenario's and the side that can do it to the greatest extent usually triumphs. Given the predominant "land based" nature of African conflicts, land maneuvre capabilities would seem to be paramount. Plus they are cheap, compared to "aerial maneuvre" capabilities...

D) Dedicated ISR investments. The ability to "see over the next hill" is critical in land warfare and superior abilities in same (Land warfare) has traditionally dominated in the "low tech" nature of African wars.

Cheers

AD.
 

Rich

Member
With the Ebonian Army largely being experienced at fighting, I'd expect that the small unit tactics are up to scratch, at least for infantry.
Thats relative in an African army. In that region you couldn't name an army thats worth a damn and I doubt the Ebonian one is either.

A lot of the ideas are noble, and eventually proper. But things like Western level night fighting techniques are so far in the future for them to be almost irrelevant. First they have to learn to line up in formation and not step onto each others feet as they march. "ISR investments"? Were talking about soldiers who have a hard enough time reading and writing and would probably sell any night vision gear for khat. So they might be able to match the Australian army in capability in about 10 generations. On the plus side none of their neighbors are worth a damn either. So for now let them post sentries at night and get some sleep while they build the nuts and bolts for a truly professional armed force.

My guess is the odds are stacked against them ever amounting to anything. With systemic corruption throughout sub-Saharan Africa, and low quality conscripts in the military, the odds aren't good.

The typical Africa soldier is poorly trained, poorly led, poorly paid, poorly motivated, poorly equipped, poorly educated. And any $$ that is spent before first addressing those problems would be money ill spent.
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
Thats relative in an African army. In that region you couldn't name an army thats worth a damn and I doubt the Ebonian one is either.

A lot of the ideas are noble, and eventually proper. But things like Western level night fighting techniques are so far in the future for them to be almost irrelevant. First they have to learn to line up in formation and not step onto each others feet as they march. "ISR investments"? Were talking about soldiers who have a hard enough time reading and writing and would probably sell any night vision gear for khat. So they might be able to match the Australian army in capability in about 10 generations. On the plus side none of their neighbors are worth a damn either. So for now let them post sentries at night and get some sleep while they build the nuts and bolts for a truly professional armed force.

My guess is the odds are stacked against them ever amounting to anything. With systemic corruption throughout sub-Saharan Africa, and low quality conscripts in the military, the odds aren't good.

The typical Africa soldier is poorly trained, poorly led, poorly paid, poorly motivated, poorly equipped, poorly educated. And any $$ that is spent before first addressing those problems would be money ill spent.
I dont think you read the posts well. I specifically mentioned a heavy emphasis on the manpower of the ebonian armed forces as the first priority. So that solves your problem of the soldiers being poorly trained, poorly led, poorly paid, poorly blah blah blah.

Its true a civil education system to back up the military training is an excellent combination as in israel. But in an african theatre, a first class military training can make a helluva difference. Put that together with better pay, better methods of increasing motivation and lower standards of corruption. In africa this amounts lot.

As for your criticism of increasing C5ISTAR abilities, once you have the correct manpower to man the system which includes intel agencies, recon and surveillance assets etc you will have a critical advantage in war.

Lastly i said we needed a investment in war infrastructure and Lastly lastly, we needed to upgrade equipment. If you have better ideas to professionalise the ebonian army please post them (although i agree with you when you criticise the night fighting equipment cuz equipment for me is at the bottom of the list and whatever equipment id have id spend it on the strike elements inorder to bring the war to an end rather than have it drag on into decades. I stated a correct foreign policy would enable the ebonians to do this as in the ethopian and somalian context.)
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
One thing I've been struggling with in terms of this exercise, are the non-defence after effects of the conflict, and their collective effect on the population and thus the defence force as a whole.

By non-defence after effects I'm referring to the education level of the populace, the condition of civilian infrastructure like water treatment & distribution, the power grid and civilian transportation and communications systems.

If these systems are all in shambles, and especially if they were limited during the ten year span of fighting, then I think some of the purchase items become even less worthwhile. Without reasonable levels of literacy and familiarity with computers and other consoles, then military personnel will have difficulties learning how to make best use of their equipment or maintain it. Unless the equipment is composed of fairly basic systems.

Among the assumptions that I've used, were that the people in Ebonia are reasonably literate and with a sufficiently large pool of people to draw upon for filling needed technical positions. From the assumptions I have been making about Ebonian, the needed infrastructure (comm systems, techs, etc) to make use of C4ISR aren't present and in place. C4ISR assets would therefore be a waste IMV because they couldn't be properly used or maintained. A goal would be do develop personnel to the point where the Ebonian Defence Force could become a C4ISR capable force.

The overall model I've been considering for the Ebonian Defence Force would be that of South Africa, IMV one of the more professional militaries in Africa, as well as one of the more advanced and capable ones.

-Cheers
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
I mentioned a heavy investment in war infrastructure. That includes the needed literacy and power levels. Also if you want an army based on South Africa, ur accepting more than half of my requirements which i formulated as a mix between southafrica and UNITA which are supported and trained by South Africa.
 

Rich

Member
I dont think you read the posts well. I specifically mentioned a heavy emphasis on the manpower of the ebonian armed forces as the first priority. So that solves your problem of the soldiers being poorly trained, poorly led, poorly paid, poorly blah blah blah.
Actually I wasnt talking to you. I was talking to the two guys I qouted and I think I made a valid point before we start fantasizing about all the new 21'st century systems were going to train the Ebonians with. If you made the same point earlier then bully for you.

I still think its pure fantasy to envision an Ebonian army on the level of the RSA, or the Aussie's. Even if the RSA army is a shadow of what it was. None of thats going to happen. Ever! But Ive been to Africa, hence my cynicism.

AD did make a good point in that "smaller, more professional, and better equipment/training" is the key. I would hesitate to use the Egyptians as a model for anything, most of all from 1973. Tho any divergance from the Soviet model is a valid point. The Arab/Israeli wars were, first and foremost, a failure of Soviet doctrine. Of organizational doctrine the most.

Just keep it real guys. Thats all I'm saying. There are a lot of Ebonias in Africa and not one has a military worth a damn!

There is one outstanding idea that keeps cropping up and that is the importation of western equipment, trainers, doctrine, diplomatic bridges. Be it with the RSA, French, Aussies, Brits, Yanks, or others. A military machine based on a successful model has a far greater chance of success. I would say the biggest failure in Sub Sahara Africa is their military models are based on nothing, other then loyalty to whatever crackpot is in power.

A failing of Totalitarian regimes throughout history.
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
Its true, the ebonians wont come close to south africa in the near future. Youll need to overhaul your entire country rather than just your magic military. Thats why if anyone understood my posts, theyd realise i wasnt referring to Egypt or South Africa YET but to UNITA. But because the ebonians have a greater amount of resources and hardware than UNITA i was suggesting they utilise those for manpower, infrastructure (civil and military but geared for the military) and lastly on a workable command and control. Youll find this hard to believe but the UNITA forces have a remarkably sound command and control without needing flashy monitors and nice electronics. I suggest you guys read up on it in Future Wars by Trevor N Dupoy. Ill look for a link.
Lastly i mentioned equipment because just getting tons of good hardware with mediocre personnel is....suicide and waste.
 

nornavy

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
My African Military

I presented with this task, my first tought would be to do the best with what you got. That means to best utilize the equipment at hand before purchasing large quanity of new materiel. Setting up a good organization and having well trained people to man the positions a key factor when building an efficient military. I will now look at each branch presenting what mesaures I would take.

Army

The Army would be organised within a Brigade structure. A divisional level command would be trained and maintained in case of a major war but the army will operate at the brigade / battalion level during normal conditions. I'll present the actual structure at the end of the army chapter.

Then over to eguipment. The conflicts in Central Africa have shown that relatively few heavy units can induse havoc among poorly trained forces.

Armour
The heavy armour I would retain in my inventory would be the T-55s. I would have 250 upgraded to the T-55 AMV in Ukraine or Russia. These would be operate in armoured battalions. The Type 59s would be scrapped along with the Type 62s.
As for the PT-76s, 120 would be kept operational in support companies for the mot.infantry battalions. The remaining 40 used for spare parts.
The BMP-1s be refurbished and used as basis for the mech. inf battalions.
Of the BRDM-2s, 60 would be reconfiqured to the 9P137 variant with AT-5 launcher and form anti tank companies. 60 retained in original form to form recce. companies.
The Type 63s would have been replaced by purchasing a similar number of BTR - 80s from Russia.
The Type 86 anti tank guns would be used by AT companies, mainly those stationed along the border.
The artillery would retain its D30s but I see the need for a more mobile system. Purchase of 40 G6 155mm SP howitzers from South Africa would give fire support to the maneuver units. Also 40 BM-21s from Russia would be purchased for their heavy, but cheap, firepower.
Air defence of the army units would be retaining the current arsenal of manpads and aquiring more SA-16s / SA-18s from Russia.
As for trucks, I would replace the current arsenal with new Urals.
New ATGMs would be AT-14s.

The infantry would enventually center around the 7.62x51mm as a standard calibre. G3s would be bought from Pakistan. Machinegun would be the PKMS since it shares caliber with the SVD Dragunov. Firepower to the infantry would be given by Browning M2s, AGS-17 grenade launchers and RPG-7s.
Structure would be as follow:

2 Maneuver Brigades:
Stationed within 150km of the borders. Compromising of:
1 Armoured battalion - 60 T-55 AMVs, 10 BMP-1s
2 Mech Inf battalions - 60 BMP-1s pr battalion gives 5 companies
1 Artillery battalion - 20 G6 SP Howitzers
1 Anti Aircraft battalion - 30 SA-16 launchers mounted on BTR-80s
1 Anti Tank battalion - 30 BRDM-2s with ATGMs
1 Engineer battalion - Engineer tanks on T-55 chassis
1 Recce Company - 15 BRDM2s
Support and logistics component

Territorial force:
10 independant Infantry Battalions. Pr battalion:
12 PT-76s Tank company
4 Infantry Companies - Urals and light vehicles; Jeeps with MGs and GLs.
Gun battery 6 D30s
Heavy Weapons Company: .50 Brownings and AGS - 17s
Stationed all around the country as single battalions, these would ensure contact with the population and deter insurgents from conducting raids. In wartime, they would be included in the Divisional structure.

"Corps units"
These units are the "strategig reserve". Stationed near the capital they would be detached to the units needing support.
2 Armoured battalions - 60 T-55 AMWs and 10 BMP-1s each
Artillery battalion - 40 D30s
Artillery battalion - 40 BM-21s

Establishing a Special Forces battalion would be of high priority. This crack unit of about 400 specally selected and trained personell would be used in counterinsurgency and "black ops". Instructors would be hired former western "spec ops" operatives. The battalion, divided into airborne and "marine" companies would have the option to choose weapon depending on mission: Modern assault rifles and SMGs.

Training will be equally important as the equipment. Getting the every soldier and the command up to western standards would be the goal.

Airforce

The Airforce would see drastic changes.
48 MiG-21s, upgraded to the Indian spec Mig-21FL/U, would perfom interceptor duties.
The Mirage 5 would be retained. More SU-22s to be bought to bring the total up to 24 aircraft. The L-39s refurbished or new bought from Russia. The rest of the fighter force to be used for parts or scrapped / sold.

The helicopter force of Mi-8s and Super Pumas be maintained and used by the army to transport Special Forces and deliver supplies.
The formation of a Gunship squadron would be a main focus. Mi-24 Hinds beeing the best candidate.
Transport aircraft retained as they are.

Air Defence would be a Air Force task. A radar network should be built up.
A Air Defence Battalion, defending the capital should be formed. Hawk SAMs and radars bought from Israel.
Independant companies with 2S6M Tunguskas is to be stationed at the air bases.
Air base security would also fall in under the air force.

Structure:
3 x Fighter Squadrons - Mig-21s
1 x Ground attack squadron - Mirage 5s
1 x Ground attack squadron - Su - 22s
1 x Training Wing
1 x Transport Command
1 x Helicopter Wing

Navy

The main tasks of the navy would be fishery protection and counterinsurgency. A submarine would be require to much resources to keep operational, so the Romeo is scrapped.
For offshore duty, small frigates would be most suited.
3 Krivaks would make up flotilla.
As for the FACs, I would keep the 6 best Osa's and buy 6 Hauk Class beeing phased out in Norway. The FACs give excellent mobility and firepower, both to deter agressive neighbours, but also to secure the costal waterway.
20 Shanghais would be updated with a .50 Brownings and AGS-17s. Manpads and ATGMs also carried.

Structure:
1. Flotilla - Krivaks
1 FPB Squadron - 6 Osa's
1 FPB Squadron - 6 Hauk's
2 Patrol Squadrons - 10 Shanghais each

Training

For training, the first and overall focus for all three branches would be to establish a sense of duty to the nation. Africa have more than enough seen government forces going over to the rebels. The pay should, for a private, be just a little bit better that the average worker. Officers should reciveve good traning in tactics and operations, preferrably at schools abroad.
Maneuver warfare should be used at platoon level and above, but disipline should be hard. A functioning military justice system is nessiscary.
Overall, I have reduced the inventory of hardware to free funds to training and salaries.
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
how exactly did you organise you force?

The organisational structure which is your armies, corps and divisions etc is formulated on the basis of enhancing an armys command and control and its mobility. The more you break down the army the more mobile it is, but you also screw up your command and control if you break it up too much.

Atleast thats the Clauswitz principle.
 

Kingtiger

New Member
Thats relative in an African army. In that region you couldn't name an army thats worth a damn and I doubt the Ebonian one is either.

A lot of the ideas are noble, and eventually proper. But things like Western level night fighting techniques are so far in the future for them to be almost irrelevant. First they have to learn to line up in formation and not step onto each others feet as they march. "ISR investments"? Were talking about soldiers who have a hard enough time reading and writing and would probably sell any night vision gear for khat. So they might be able to match the Australian army in capability in about 10 generations. On the plus side none of their neighbors are worth a damn either. So for now let them post sentries at night and get some sleep while they build the nuts and bolts for a truly professional armed force.

My guess is the odds are stacked against them ever amounting to anything. With systemic corruption throughout sub-Saharan Africa, and low quality conscripts in the military, the odds aren't good.

The typical Africa soldier is poorly trained, poorly led, poorly paid, poorly motivated, poorly equipped, poorly educated. And any $$ that is spent before first addressing those problems would be money ill spent.
Rich,

You do not state as to where you're from. Perhaps if you don't mind telling me this - I could then perhaps enlighten you (in context) a little regards some African Armies.

Cheers,
Kingtiger
 

nornavy

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
how exactly did you organise you force?

The organisational structure which is your armies, corps and divisions etc is formulated on the basis of enhancing an armys command and control and its mobility. The more you break down the army the more mobile it is, but you also screw up your command and control if you break it up too much.

Atleast thats the Clauswitz principle.
I am not taking a traditional Clausewitz approach when organizing my army. My armys main task would be counterinsurgency and maintaining control over own territory. This kind of mission requries a lot of freedom for the on scene commander. My doctrines would be based on maneuver warfare. Each commander is given a specific goal or "end state" to achieve, and has some freedom in choosing how to accoplish those. Beeing an African army, I only see that it is possiblie, within just 5 year, to properly train battalion commanders and staff, ( prehaps down to company in the maneuver brigades) in this philosopy. Correctly applied, this command doctrine, based on a mix of Sun Tzu and the German Blitzkrieg concept, will defeat a Clausewitz based army.
As for chain of command, I can be more specific.
The highest command level: The National High Command, would have the role as a corps traditionally would. For normal, peacetime operations, the structure will be as I have outlined with one addition. The Territorial Battalions would report to a Military District Commander. Ebonia would have three districts, with three, three and four battalions. The maneuver brigades would be assigned to two different Districts, that beeing the ones facing the bad neighbors. The third District, inf battalions only, would be covering the costal regions.
 

Rich2

New Member
Hello, first post btw.

Air Force

Scrap/sell the bulk of the air force immediately.

- Retain the Mirage 5s

- Retain the J7s, pending replacement.

- Seek at first opportunity to purchase a small number of relatively modern aircraft from France (ex-FAF Mirage 2000s, F1s at a push) or failing that from Russia or China (SU27s, latest MiG29). See whether these and the existing air force can be upgraded by Israel - fitted with Israeli systems and armament.

- Purchase training aircraft with a light strike capability (Hawk, Alpha Jet, MB339 etc.)

- Retain all operational transport and helicopter assets; both useful for moving troops around the country; the transports can also be used for limited maritime patrol (fishery protection).

If the neighbouring nations pose a credible air threat, it would be vital to operate a squadron or two of (relatively) advanced interceptor aircraft to maintain air superiority, hence the requirement for fighter aircraft.

The rest of the air force would comprise relatively light (and cheap) ground-attack/close support aircraft


Army

- Repair and upgrade c.200 the T-54/55 and scrap the remainder of the MBTs.

- Ditto for the BTR40s and AFVs; acquire new trucks.

- Reduce the artillery force and replace with modern light towed weaponry (possibly also MLRS).

- Favour the AK47 and phase out the G3. Procure new stocks of munitions, especially manportable SAMs and anti-tank missiles.

- Restructure army so it was infantry heavy, with a considerable emphasis on small battle groups (a few MBTs and infantry in AFVs or trucks), helicopter-borne units etc. for counter-insurgency and border incursions.

- A deployable UN force comprising several battalions of infantry and soft-skinned/wheeled armoured fighting vehicles, with appropriate logistic support.

Again, this is dependent upon the size and capability of the neighbours' armies.


Navy

- Scrap the submarine. Obsolete, drain on resources and no perceptable need for it: would not deter a modern naval force.

- Retire the FAC and AshM batteries immediately.

- Retain the Shanghais until replacements (below) come online. See whether, in the interim, old French avisos or similar could be purchased/leased for patrol duties.

- Seek to ultimately field a navy comprising 12-14 modern OPVs of around
800-1000t. Lightly armed - 57 or 76mm gun, light guns, manportable SAMs and an embarked light helicopter - and highly automated. Space and weight reserved for fitting missile/gun CIWS and SSMs and associated systems.

- See about procuring several maritime patrol aircraft; decent long-range radar and able to carry light armament, but nothing too sophisticated or expensive.

This is based on the assumption that there is no immediate naval threat, but the force would rather be employed on fishery protection/SLOC/SAR and anti-smuggling/terrorism duties.
 

Rich

Member
Rich,

You do not state as to where you're from. Perhaps if you don't mind telling me this - I could then perhaps enlighten you (in context) a little regards some African Armies.

Cheers,
Kingtiger
Yeah, and what Sub-Saharan African army, besides the RSA, can you enlighten me on? Even the once mighty RSA army has a 40% HIV infection rate. Mad Bobs goons have a 90% infection rate. So if you cant even teach a soldier to use a condom how are you going to teach him 21'st century night fighting tactics?http://www.jendajournal.com/vol1.2/lovgren.html

Name one besides the RSA thats even close to western spec. Probably the best one of the bunch is Nigeria and even they are having problems with an insurrection in the oil producing regions.

I dont want to steer the thread away from whats intended however. So a pvt message would be welcome. BTW I consider the RSA my 2'nd home. I love the place!

The biggest problem with Africa is that once youv been there you are never "happy" until you go back.
 

Kingtiger

New Member
Rich,

Your original statement was a blanket one. Since then I see you have mentioned RSA. I did some serious night vision training 18 years ago with our own equipment that was as good, if not better then anything else we could have bought from the "West" at that stage. As a small example, today we sell lazer designaters to the FLIR company amoungst others to integrate into their newly updated night vision flir airborne pods for the U.S. Marine Corps AH-Z Cobra attack helicopter update program (I mention that because I assume you are American).

However I do not want to go into a long and perhaps off-topic debat here.

I want to mention Botswana Angola and Namibia. I suggest you do a little research especially regards Botswana before you make general statements on Sub-Saharan African countries military capabilities.

Believe it or not, the Zim Army is still very well trained and disciplined! I have that from a very informed source. I suspect that, that could change rapidly anytime soon.

However I could tell you many horror stories regards our own army's (RSA)discipline or perhaps total lack of it in many cases. It is a very, very far cry from the army that I knew 20 years ago. They also do play down the HIV infection rate. I would tend to agree with you on the ratios in this regard. This is not a reflection on the general population infection rates though. Although it is also very high as you already know.

Still with an average of 7 years before Full blown AIDS kicks in, the average soldier still has a lot of time to kill you with his A.K. before he succumbs to it.

Anyway, now I'm realy getting off-topic.

Regards,
Matthew
 
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