Littoral Combat Ship

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
  • They are designed to commercial military standards - just as the Mistral Class and many of the ships being currently built. It doesn't mean it is a car ferry, it means the classification process is civilian, the process, not the design.
The propulsion is civilian-standard. The MTU 8000 is also used in Austal ferries, btw. ;)
(though also in a few other military projects, where it doesn't necessarily work out too good)

  • Electronics - read the link - compare to most non-AAW frigates, compare to LCS - lacking?
  • no self-defense decoy launchers mounted yet, only planned
  • SMART-S (primary surveillance radar) has only been fitted in June
  • only two single-channel CEROS-200 illuminators for the ESSM (cannibalized from the SF-300). however, Denmark plans to use ESSM in homing-all-the-way mode, so it won't necessarily "need" the illuminators.
  • Terma C-Flex is more of a flag staff C2 / planning system than a full classic naval CMS (oh yeah, i'm gonna catch flak for that comment :rolleyes:)
  • The Atlas ASO 94 sonar fitted is probably "adequate". As a surveillance sonar, not for attack.
  • RAM was originally envisioned - and shot down as too pricey.

  • Any ship sent abroad will have full mission packages. Whats wrong with pooling kit?
Nothing really, of course. However, in Denmark's case, they're e.g. only buying six containerized CIWS systems, for 8 ships with 13 "assigned" spots (2 Absolons, 3 PS class, 3 "inspection vessels"). Meaning they'll have to set defense priorities even in a medium-scale deployment (anything over three such ships). It's similar with the Mk56 launchers (that have yet to be modified to fire ESSM...).
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
The propulsion is civilian-standard. The MTU 8000 is also used in Austal ferries, btw. ;)
(though also in a few other military projects, where it doesn't necessarily work out too good)
Yes, I understand that the propulsion system was the major cash saver on the patrol ships, I could imagine that the same goes for the Absalons. However, 23 kts sustained and top speed a couple of kts higher should be good. I think the RDN is quite happy with this performance.

no self-defense decoy launchers mounted yet, only planned
I thought it had 6 decoy launchers, considering they are of domestic manufacture, relartively cheap and widely used, it surprises me that they are only planned.

SMART-S (primary surveillance radar) has only been fitted in June
But operational, very, very capable. Exceeding specs by a wide margin. Superior to what is proposed for the LCS.

only two single-channel CEROS-200 illuminators for the ESSM (cannibalized from the SF-300). however, Denmark plans to use ESSM in homing-all-the-way mode, so it won't necessarily "need" the illuminators.
For expeditionary work, they will receive two additonal FC illuminators. A total of four.

Terma C-Flex is more of a flag staff C2 / planning system than a full classic naval CMS (oh yeah, i'm gonna catch flak for that comment :rolleyes:)
That will be for another day - what is adequate. But compared to the systems on a large amphib, it doesn't compare...

The Atlas ASO 94 sonar fitted is probably "adequate". As a surveillance sonar, not for attack.
Agreed.

RAM was originally envisioned - and shot down as too pricey.
News to me. Would love to read more. I don't think lack of it detracts. Millenium is also a good system plus ESSM in surface-surface mode in the future (?).

Nothing really, of course. However, in Denmark's case, they're e.g. only buying six containerized CIWS systems, for 8 ships with 13 "assigned" spots (2 Absalons, 3 PS class, 3 "inspection vessels"). Meaning they'll have to set defense priorities even in a medium-scale deployment (anything over three such ships). It's similar with the Mk56 launchers (that have yet to be modified to fire ESSM...).
Plus two Millenium on option. The three (actually two) "inspection vessels" are supposed to carry 76mm oto and not the Millenium (afaik). If they are to carry an gun at all.

The MK 56 VLS was part of the baseline for the certification for the ESSM. Somewhat surprised to hear they have not been modified to fire them (?).
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I thought it had 6 decoy launchers, considering they are of domestic manufacture, relartively cheap and widely used, it surprises me that they are only planned.
Well, haven't been fitted yet it seems. At least i can't find them in this current photo series (from the guy who writes the navalhistory.dk stuff).

Plus two Millenium on option. The three (actually two) "inspection vessels" is supposed to carry 76mm oto and not the Millenium (afaik). If they are to carry an gun at all.
Most sources i've seen say two StanFlex Gun positions - one for 76mm, one for CIWS, fitting as needed of course.
Edit: I don't mean the Arctic Patrol Vessels now outfitting, that are replacing the Agdleks - those of course are only fitted with a single gun position. Hmm. I'll get back to you on that.

The MK 56 VLS was part of the baseline for the certification for the ESSM. Somewhat surprised to hear they have not been modified to fire them (?).
Oh, there are a handful ESSM-capable Mk 56. Somewhere. Denmark has something like 20 launcher-containers though. Afaik, all cruises of Absalon so far were made with NSSM fitted. In this picture from July 2007, all three Mk 56 are fitted for NSSM, no twin launch containers for ESSM yet.

Edit: On the RAM - it was one of the contenders for the CIWS position. Dropped out early due to price. The run-off was pretty much between Rheinmetall MLG-27, Goalkeeper and Rheinmetall Millenium Gun iirc.
I have my suspicions that the 35mm solution got a huge bonus in the run-off due to the Danish Army ordering systems firing the same caliber in 2005, in 35x228, with the 45 CV9035 Mk III IFV - though the IFVs will use different ammunition (no AHEAD), it will be good for logistics.
 
Last edited:

Grand Danois

Entertainer
Well, haven't been fitted yet it seems. At least i can't find them in this current photo series (from the guy who writes the navalhistory.dk stuff).
Nice and recent shots, but not from the navalhistory guy. But much better than what I could find...

Most sources i've seen say two StanFlex Gun positions - one for 76mm, one for CIWS, fitting as needed of course.
Edit: I don't mean the Arctic Patrol Vessels now outfitting, that are replacing the Agdleks - those of course are only fitted with a single gun position. Hmm. I'll get back to you on that.
Ah. Those where the ones I thought you was thinking of.

Oh, there are a handful ESSM-capable Mk 56. Somewhere. Denmark has something like 20 launcher-containers though. Afaik, all cruises of Absalon so far were made with NSSM fitted. In this picture from July 2007, all three Mk 56 are fitted for NSSM, no twin launch containers for ESSM yet.
Here is a pic with Mk 56.

http://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/SoevaernsNyt/2007/0422_Stoetteskibene.htm

But I doubt they had the wiring at the time.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
It would seem that a cheaper alternative to the Littoral Combat Ship would be to use Incat ferries and modify them...

HSV-X1 Joint Venture
HSV-2 Swift
TSV-1X Spearhead

All currently in US service. They seem to be performing many of the roles that the Littoral Combat Ship will perform.

Bolt on a basic radar and surface to air missile system and a multi role helicopter with anti ship missiles and you have a pretty impressive package that would have half the crew of the ANZAC's with similar firepower. The only disadvantage would be range and the lower sea state conditions. This would make a very attractive low option in a high-low force.

It would be interesting what Incat does with the three Catamarans that are being leased to the US. The Australian Navy should buy them.
Given both vessel are HSC hulls they both suffer the same problems but IMV the trimaran "seaframe" concept used by Austal is a much more advanced design than the INCAT wave piecer. Again it comes down to how much you can put on these vessels. The 127m Austal ferry hull only has a DWT in the order of 1000 tonnes in ferry configuration. It must be remember that in this configuration weight minimisation is the main focus using mechanisms such as expanded aluminium for seat bases to keep weight down and graduated thicking of hull structer only in place where stresses concentrate.

http://www.austal.com/files/delivery/DS_BenchjiguaExpress.pdf

The same goes for INCAT but the 98m design only has a maximum DWT of 750tonnes.

http://www.incat.com.au/news/news.c...s_task=DETAIL&articleID=63880&sectionID=63025

Don't forget DWT includes all fuel, water, stores, spares, crew as well as cargo.

The weight difference between a ferry design and a warship are significant and it is not simply a case of 'strapping on weapons' not least because of the need to provide greater generation capacity as ferry designs keep this to a minimum. As an example the INCAT 98m design has 4 generators that have a maximum total capcaptiy 920kw running flat out. The fact is one is always on standby and they are normally only run at 80 to 85% of the MER. In addition there is the need to provide long term accomdation and related facilities. This adds a lot of mass due to the need for fire rated bulkheads. Aluminium will suffer structureal failure at about 500 degress C so it needs to be protected by insulation to get the A-60 or A-0 rate required for many spaces. Accomodationis normally B-15. Then there is additional struacture for the helo deck etc etc etc ..... and this is before we look at andding a single weapon. In sort trying to turn a ferry into a front line warship after it has been constructed is simply not worth it nor is it reasonably practical.

The final fact is that the aluminium hull is still going to cost you more than the same size steel hull. It is a fact of life. A fast ferry of about 90m will cost the same as a feeder container ship of the same size despite the greater uplift capacity fo the latter.

I have a great deal of time for Austal and consider them to be a leader in their field. I alos consider that LCS (and I am not focusing on Austal alone here) looks to have a role in the USN as part of a capability system. I don't see taht LCVS is good for any navy that has a varaitety of ocean areas to operate in and limited hulls. (I am trying to avoid the RAN focus).
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
IIRC, the average price per ship for the San Antonios is around $1.2 billion.

The CBO estimates each LCS will cost around $450 million without mission modules.

So 2.67 LCSs per San Antonio.
And a 187m RO-RO vessel built to commercial standards will cost in the order of 70m USD (cheaper if you go to China). With specific modifications structural modfifications to support other operations add 20 to 30m USD at a rough punt. Crew in the order of 19 wihtout specialists. (i.e. flgiht crew, crews of auxilary craft etc)

You could even put a flat deck on it, add and elevator and have the superstructure located to one side for air carft operations. Sound like a good options for the amphibous support ship that is still palnned for the RAN (subject to the election possibly).
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
And a 187m RO-RO vessel built to commercial standards will cost in the order of 70m USD (cheaper if you go to China). With specific modifications structural modfifications to support other operations add 20 to 30m USD at a rough punt. Crew in the order of 19 wihtout specialists. (i.e. flgiht crew, crews of auxilary craft etc)

You could even put a flat deck on it, add and elevator and have the superstructure located to one side for air carft operations. Sound like a good options for the amphibous support ship that is still palnned for the RAN (subject to the election possibly).
Out of curiousity, about how much would it cost to add a docking well or boat docking and maintenance facility? Something large enough to handle boats ~15m length and up to ~4m beam, and perhaps 20 tonnes?

Incidentally, this is a link to a USN "mothership" idea for riverine warfare, so perhaps a littoral version might be worthwhile as well.

I found [URL="http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-new-littoral-combat-ships-updated-01343/"/]this[/URL] article (updated in March I believe) from Defense Industry Daily covering the LCS. It raises some of my concerns about the level of weaponry found on the LCS, particularly relative to the vessels size and what other vessels might be operating in a littoral environment. The impression the article leaves me with, is that the LCS, at a price of ~US$427mil (for 1 mission module and no helicopters) will be able to perform whatever mission the module is configured for reasonably well. However, other roles carried out by current ships the LCS is expected to replace will likely not be able to be performed as well, if at all. Or at least significantly more funding to purchase additional modules, which might still leave capability gaps.

One question of mine that remains, is how important is it for a vessel to be able to operate close inshore (within 10 n miles) and how often it would be expected for an LCS to operate in that area?

-Cheers
 
Last edited:

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Out of curiousity, about how much would it cost to add a docking well or boat docking and maintenance facility? Something large enough to handle boats ~15m length and up to ~4m beam, and perhaps 20 tonnes?
That would really add tot he cost as wouel interfere with the E/R and steering compartment requiring a major redesign. it does not mean it is not possible but it will cost.

Better approach would appear to be a davit arrangment as 20tonnes is pretty light weight in the grand scheme of things. This wouel not preclude ahving more that one vessel under the lift/davit as depending on how they are stowed in the ship it sould be possible to use one lift/davit to service a number of vessels. The old barge carriers (LASH ships) used to used a sep of aft mouted rails extending over the stern for this sort of thing. These ships still form part ofthe US ready reserve.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cape-f.htm

It should be possible to have such and arrangment working into a cargo deck for something as small as you describe.


Incidentally, this is a link to a USN "mothership" idea for riverine warfare, so perhaps a littoral version might be worthwhile as well.

I found this article (updated in March I believe) from Defense Industry Daily covering the LCS. It raises some of my concerns about the level of weaponry found on the LCS, particularly relative to the vessels size and what other vessels might be operating in a littoral environment. The impression the article leaves me with, is that the LCS, at a price of ~US$427mil (for 1 mission module and no helicopters) will be able to perform whatever mission the module is configured for reasonably well. However, other roles carried out by current ships the LCS is expected to replace will likely not be able to be performed as well, if at all. Or at least significantly more funding to purchase additional modules, which might still leave capability gaps.

One question of mine that remains, is how important is it for a vessel to be able to operate close inshore (within 10 n miles) and how often it would be expected for an LCS to operate in that area?

-Cheers
Thanks for that. Sadly I could not get the DID article to open. I still think that $427mil is a lot of money for a single mission capability for most navies. I have no doubt it may (noting there are doubts) fit the USN operational scheme as an assest that is support by others. Littorial work appears to be a big issue for the USN noting the DDG1000 is focused on this as well and I guess it would be very useful is situations like the gulf or similar waters.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
And a 187m RO-RO vessel built to commercial standards will cost in the order of 70m USD (cheaper if you go to China). With specific modifications structural modfifications to support other operations add 20 to 30m USD at a rough punt. Crew in the order of 19 wihtout specialists. (i.e. flgiht crew, crews of auxilary craft etc)

You could even put a flat deck on it, add and elevator and have the superstructure located to one side for air carft operations. Sound like a good options for the amphibous support ship that is still palnned for the RAN (subject to the election possibly).
http://www.fsg-ship.de/2product/1prod/pdf/ro-ro_2700_mil.pdf?size=495KB

AKA Point-class ro-ro - 6 built for the UKs Strategic Sealift requirement. Vehicle deck built to take Challenger 2 tanks, & as the PDF says, vertrep area. 193 x 26 m, 23000 GT, 18 crew.
 

B.Smitty

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
http://www.fsg-ship.de/2product/1prod/pdf/ro-ro_2700_mil.pdf?size=495KB

AKA Point-class ro-ro - 6 built for the UKs Strategic Sealift requirement. Vehicle deck built to take Challenger 2 tanks, & as the PDF says, vertrep area. 193 x 26 m, 23000 GT, 18 crew.
This is very close to what i was thinking. It needs a flight deck aft and Alexsa's RORO deck elevator, along with plumbing for refueling.

It would also need basic self defense capabilities such as SeaRAM, Mk46 30mms, .50 cal mounts, etc..

The cargo deck could carry a mixture of small boats, landing craft and/or containers. It would be nice to have a davit or stabilized crane arrangement that could launch and recover patrol craft up to 25m (50-70 tonnes), landing craft or offload cargo.

With additional power, plumbing and data capacity, it could accept modules for things like helo and patrol craft maintenance, hospital facilities, berthing for special forces and boat/helo crews, etc.

It would seem to be a good fit for the Global Fleet Station concept, for the GWOT, or any other task that doesn't require a real warship or amphibious vessel.

In a real war, they could fall back to their basic RO/RO capabilities.

And you could build 10 of them for the price of one LPD-17.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Welll . . . I dunno. I'm not sure about this modified transport idea. As military transports, the Point-class is a success. By all accounts, the RN & army are entirely satisfied with them, & would probably recommend the design to any navy in need of sealift.

But I'm not sure about turning a ship like this into a mother ship for patrol vessels. Maybe it's sensible, maybe not.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Thanks for that. Sadly I could not get the DID article to open. I still think that $427mil is a lot of money for a single mission capability for most navies. I have no doubt it may (noting there are doubts) fit the USN operational scheme as an assest that is support by others. Littorial work appears to be a big issue for the USN noting the DDG1000 is focused on this as well and I guess it would be very useful is situations like the gulf or similar waters.
Looks like I had a bad link:( Here's the link again, as well as the article. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-new-littoral-combat-ships-updated-01343/

The USA's New Littoral Combat Ships (updated)

The Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) is the U.S. Navy's newest surface combatant class. Optimized for shallow seas and littoral operations within 100 miles of shore but deployable across the ocean, LCS ships are a centerpiece of the USA's new focus on littoral warfare. They will help to counter growing "asymmetric" threats like coastal mines, quiet diesel submarines, global piracy, and terrorists on small fast attack boats. They will also perform intelligence gathering and scouting using helicopters and UAVs, offer some ground combat support capabilities, and share tactical information with other Navy aircraft, ships, submarines, and joint units. Swappable "mission modules," UAV robot aircraft, and robotic UUV and USV vehicles will give these small ships the specialized capabilities they require for each of these roles.

At present, two teams are competing for the final LCS design. The General Dynamics team is offering a futuristic but practical high-speed trimaran based on Austal designs and experience. The Lockheed Martin team offers a high-speed semi-planing monohull based on Fincantieri designs that have set trans-Atlantic speed records. Each team will produce two Flight Zero ships, and both teams have now received contracts and begun construction of their initial pair of "Flight Zero" LCS ships.

DID places recent developments in context by explaining a bit more about the US Navy's new surface combatant; detailing the teams, key timeline events, and contract awards under the program to date; and providing additional resources and links to complete our in-depth coverage. New material is in green type. In the wake of the Navy's cancellation of Team Lockheed's LCS 3 ship, and warning to Team General Dynamics re: cost growth, National Defense Magazine reports that new cost forecasts are causing even LCS supporters to re-assess their positions – and may becreating openings for other options…

LCS = Standard Equipment + Mission Modules… + Controversy
LCS: Designs, Teams, and Program Stakes
LCS: Contracts & Key Events
LCS Ancillaries: Mission Module & Weapon Contracts & Key Events
Additional Readings & Sources

LCS = Standard Equipment + Mission Modules… + Controversy


LCS Flight 0 Basics
(click to view full)The US Navy is trying to replace 30 FF-7 Oliver Hazard Perry Class "frigates," 14 MCM Avenger Class mine countermeasures vessels, and 12 MHC-51 Osprey Class coastal mine hunters (TL = 56), with about 55 Littoral Combat Ships.

Given their size (at 127-134 meters length, almost the size of a British Type 23 frigate), the LCS might well be classified as a frigate or corvette were it not for its shallow water design. For whatever reason, high speed has also been identified as an important ship characteristic. Both the GD/Austal trimaran and Lockheed's racing-derived monohull fulfill this requirement, with potential top speeds of 40-50 knots. Internal capacity will allow Special Forces to be embarked for missions, along with their equipment.

The LCS requirement has been identified as part of a broader surface combatant force transformation strategy, which recognizes that many future threats are likely to require near-shore and even river access. Given the diversity of possible missions in these zones, any ship given these tasks must be extremely versatile, and also stealthy. Given the reality that ships are expected to remain in service for 30+ years, "future-proofing" and upgradeability are critical in order for these small ships to remain useful.

While a ship's hull and design makes a number of performance parameters difficult to change, the Americans believe they may have a solution to the problem of affordable upgrades to sensors, weapons, et. al. The revolutionary approach of swappable mission modules pioneered by designs like the Danish Standard Flex 300 corvettes radically changes the LCS' breadth of top-level capabilities, and also allows for spiral development and much simpler future upgrades as technologies evolve.

No matter which mission modules are loaded, the ship will carry a BAE Systems Mk110 57mm naval gun with a firing rate of up to 220 rounds/minute, and Mk 295 ammunition that allows the system to perform against aerial, surface or ground threats. The ship will also carry .50 caliber (12.7mm) machine guns, plus defensive systems including automated chaff/flare dispensers and a Raytheon RIM-116 RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile) launcher integrated into an upgraded version of the MK 15 Phalanx gun system's radar & IR sensors. The ships will also rely on their onboard MH-60 helicopters and/or RQ-8B Fire Scout helicopter UAVs, plus other robotic vehicles including a variety of Unmanned Underwater Vessels (UUV) and Unmanned Surface Vessels (USV). UUVs currently being tested for use with the LCS include the Bluefin 21 advance surveyor, WLD-1 which tows AQS-20 mine-hunting sonar, and others.

As discussed above, these systems will actually be part of mission modules, integrated packages of weapons, sensors, robotic vehicles, and manned platforms that can be switched in and out depending on the ship's mission. The program will initially draw upon modules for Mine Warfare (MIW), Anti-submarine Warfare (ASW) and Surface Warfare (SUW).


AMCM Components
(click to view full)The LCS Mission Modules Program Office (PMS 420) packages a variety of technologies, many of which are produced by other program offices and delivered as elements of a particular mission module.

The MIW module, for example, brings together several systems developed by the Mine Warfare program office (PMS 495): the AN/WLD-1 Remote Minehunting UUV System; the AN/AQS-20A towed mine-detecting sonar and sensors; the Organic Airborne Surface Influence Sweep (OASIS); the Airborne Laser Mine Detection System (AES-1 ALMDS); the Airborne Mine Neutralization System (AMNS); The Rapid Airborne Mine Clearance System (RAMICS) 30mm cannon with its "supercavitating" ammunition; and others. DID has described them asll or linked to in-depth profiles in our in-depth coverage of the MH-60S Airborne Mine Countermeasures (AMCM) program.

The Advanced Deployable System (ADS) had been at the heart of the ASW anti-submarine module, and was intended to be a fast-deploying underwater sensor net developed by Lockheed Martin under the Maritime Surveillance Systems program office (PMS 485). Unfortunately, as our coverage's update section notes, ADS was terminated. The ASW module also includes Lockheed's WLD-1 UUV, a new General Dynamics USV, and acoustic sensors such as Lockheed's Sea Talon multifunction towed array and remote towed active source. Other detection systems and weapons are designed for use aboard the MH-60 helicopter and unmanned surface vessels (USVs) like the Spartan. New technologies like the revolutionary "Sea Sparker" that DID covered in August 2005 may also find their way into this mix.

The SUW attack module makes use of 3 weapon stations. Options include the same 30mm cannon used in the Mine Warfare program's RAMCIS mine-disposal system, and the Marines' Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle. Another option is a version of the US Army's Non Line-of-Sight – Launch System. NLOS-LS, aka. NETFIRES. Each of the on-board weapon stations are sized to carry 4 Netfire modules, each of which packs 15 cells (60 missiles total per station). These cheap "missile-in-a-box" precision attack missiles (PAM) roughly duplicate the effects of a 155mm shell and have a range of up to 40 km/ 24 miles. They can be fired in direct mode, and a forthcoming LAM missile would be able to loiter in an area and look for targets or wait for another platform to laser-designate one.

Note that even with the SUW module installed, this is a very light armament set for a major naval vessel. Present LCS designs don't even carry torpedo tubes, or true vertical-launch systems (VLS) that could accommodate present and future attack and/or defensive missiles. Even the corvette-sized Danish Flyvefisken Class, whose swappable modules helped pave the way for the LCS idea, has a Mk 48 vertical launch system and can carry Harpoon anti-ship missiles and/or longer-range air defense missiles. The LCS weapon array also compares unfavorably with corvettes like Israel's US-built, $260 million Sa'ar 5 Eilat Class, and Sweden's ultra-stealthy Visby Class; or even some small Fast Attack Craft classes. Not to mention comparable-sized multi-role frigates like the new Franco-Italian FREMM Class or Britain's much older Type 23/Duke Class.

In contrast, brochures for the International LCS versions offered by each team feature the small SPY-1F AEGIS radar and 16 VLS cells (GD version has 16 tactical length cells for up to 64 RIM-162 ESSM anti-air missiles, LM version has strike length cells that could accommodate anti-ship missiles et. al.), as well as Harpoon missiles. The GD/Austal international brochure even adds torpedo tubes.

It's estimated that the switch to Naval Vessel Rules will probably add about $50 million per ship; leaving out the MH-60S/R helicopters at $25-30 million per, the Navy claims the mission modules will be $80 million apiece. If so, the best case may be a recurring cost of around $427 million ($297M per + $50M + $80M) to provide a ship and only 1 mission module, instead of the originally envisaged target of about $400 million with 3 modules per ship.

If the LCS' cost continues to hover around $350-400 million, future procurement trends begin to make LCS ships the most common form of US naval power, and their armament continues to lack flexibility, unfavorable comparisons are inevitable. A versatile surveillance and special forces insertion ship whose flexibility doesn't extend to the light armament that is its weakest point, and isn't flexible enough to accommodate anything beyond token naval or air opposition, won't meet those expectations.

Worse, it could cause the collapse of the Navy's envisaged "high-low" force structure if the DDG-1000 destroyers and CG (X) cruisers are priced out of the water and built in small numbers, and the LCS has no way of taking up key roles like fleet air defense.

LCS: Designs, Teams, and Program Stakes


Team Lockheed LCS Concept
(click for cutaway)According to official Pentagon documents, the Navy's FY 2006 budget for the LCS program was $1.054 billion ($470.3M procurement, $584.1M RDT&E), which dropped to $926.6 million in FY 2007 budget ($597.2M procurement of ships & mission modules, $329.4M RDT&E). The FY 2008 request is set at $1.208 billion ($990.8M for 3 ships + 2 mission modules, $217.5M RDT&E), but the Navy's revised LCS procurement strategy may cause shifts in that allocation even if all funding survives.

As noted earlier, there are currently two different LCS designs being produced and procured as part of the competition. The General Dynamics team is offering a futuristic but practical high-speed trimaran, based on Austal designs and experience with vessels like the US Marines' Westpac Express high-speed transport and the Army and Navy's TSV/HSV ships. It offers an especially large landing area and internal volume for its size, and has the potential for improved survivability against hits to its sides thanks to the trimaran design. Team Lockheed Martin, meanwhile, offers a proven high-speed semi-planing monohull based on Fincantieri designs that have set trans-Atlantic speed records.

The program is structured for Team Lockheed and the General Dynamics/Austal consortium to each produce a number of fully operational Flight Zero ships; construction of the first 2 ships from each team is now underway. The Navy's experience with these ships will help it select one eventual winning team for the overall program, and it will still be able to use all of the Flight 0 ships.

The design approach for the winning team's second generation Flight 1 LCS ships is flexible, and will change somewhat to take into consideration the experience gained in the Flight 0 designs. While the number of LCS ships is not finalized, there has been speculation of 50-60 LCS ships within a total US naval fleet of 315 ships. This would put the overall program value at around $12 billion.

Four Flight 0 ships and nine Flight 1 ships were initially contemplated, along with 7 mission components which include 3 mine warfare components and 2 anti-submarine warfare (ASW) components. Austal's December 11, 2006 press release even implied that more early-build ships might enter US Navy plans:

"Recent Navy reports have speculated on an expanded acquisition strategy, from 4 to a possible 17, for the Flight 0 fleet of LCSs that also includes an alternate monohull ship design. Commenting in September, Assistant Secretary of the Navy (Research, Development, and Acquisition), Dr Delores Etter, told Reuters, 'The U.S. Navy hopes to finalize its acquisition strategy for a new class of shore-hugging combat ships by mid-December [2006].' "

As the program progressed, however, per-ship cost growth due to new Navy standards compliance requirements and other shifts forced significant changes in the Navy's acquisition strategy. Under the new approach, planned FY 2007 procurements would be channeled into getting LCS 1-4 built, rather than buying additional ships as some in Congress proposed. Instead of buying 3 LCS ships in 2008, and then ramp up to building 6 ships per year beginning in 2009 through 2012, amended procurement plans would buy 2 LCS ships in 2008, and 3 in 2009. Congressional votes, which are becoming less supportive of the LCS program as its costs rise, could trim that number further. For instance, the US Senate's proposed FY 2008 defense bill would fund just 1 LCS ship.

Furthermore, the revised program would select one final design by 2010 – with a design competition that would be separate from the build competition.

Nonetheless, the December 11, 2006 Austal release adds that foreign interest is rising, and cites a figure of "...reported 26 potential buyers exist worldwide for the ship and its companion equipment with two near-term contenders and four others that have expressed active interest." DID notes releases and information below that pinpoint Israel (Lockheed version) and Saudi Arabia (GD/Austal version) as two of those possible foreign sales.

The General Dynamics LCS team is led by General Dynamics Bath Iron Works shipbuilder as prime integrator, with Austal of Mobile, AL (a subsidiary of Austal Ships of Australia) as the main design partner and ship-building site. The team also includes GD subsidiaries General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products Division in Burlington, VT; General Dynamics Electric Boat Division in Groton, CT; General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems in Fairfax, VA; and General Dynamics Canada in Ottawa, Ontario. Other key participants include the Boeing Company in Seattle, WA; BAE Systems in Rockville, MD; L3 Communications Marine Systems in Leesburg, VA; Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD; and Maritime Applied Physics Corporation who are also located in Baltimore, MD. Bofors (gun) and Ericcson (radar) are among the minor partners whose equipment will be featured on the GD Team's proposed design.

Lockheed's core team includes various Lockheed divisions, plus naval architects Gibbs & Cox of Arlington, VA; shipbuilders Bollinger Shipyards of Lockport, LA; and shipbuilders Marinette Marine of Marinette, WI. It also includes a host of niche providers and related partnerships including Angle Incorporated, Blohm + Voss, Data Links Solutions, DRS Technologies, EADS, Fairbanks Morse Engine, Fincantieri, Izar (now NAVANTIA), L-3 Communications, MAAG Gear AG, MacTaggart Scott, NAWCAD, Raytheon, Rolls Royce, Sensytech, SPAWAR, Sperry, Terma, Unidynamics, and United Defense (now BAE Systems).

LCS: Ship Contracts & Key Events


Team GD LCS Concept
(click to view full)According to official Pentagon documents, the Navy's FY 2006 budget for the LCS program was $1.054 billion ($470.3M procurement, $584.1M RDT&E), which dropped to $926.6 million in FY 2007 budget ($597.2M procurement of ships & mission modules, $329.4M RDT&E). The FY 2008 request is set at $1.208 billion ($990.8M for 3 ships + 2 mission modules, $217.5M RDT&E), but the Navy's revised LCS procurement strategy may cause shifts in that allocation even if all funding survives.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
what's your concern?
It's quite big, relatively slow & unmanoeuvrable. Big target. Cheap, & can carry a lot, but using & protecting all that volume could be expensive. Perhaps something a little like the Absalon, with more space for boats & helicopters? But I'm not at all sure. This is an area where I have more doubts than suggestions.
 

Galrahn

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
You know what I think Smitty, I still believe the US should test mothership concepts with either a Tarawa class LHA or a LPD-17 modified hull with the 50 ft plug.

Motherships need well decks, flight decks, and cranes to support a mix of vessels centered around something the size of an LCAC that can go 10 days without supply. The M-80 hull might work well if it had better endurance.

And if the US Navy builds more LCS, the mothership needs to be able to swap a mission module at sea, and carry some to swap forward in its cargo hold.

In other words, to me a mothership is a slightly armed L class ship with a focus on presence, sustainment, and logistical support somewhere in the 25K tons range and able to support a full rifle company of marines or NECC troops, while supporting a number of deployable surface, subsurface, and aviation craft in a maritime domain awareness role in a littoral.
 

B.Smitty

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
You know what I think Smitty, I still believe the US should test mothership concepts with either a Tarawa class LHA or a LPD-17 modified hull with the 50 ft plug.

Motherships need well decks, flight decks, and cranes to support a mix of vessels centered around something the size of an LCAC that can go 10 days without supply. The M-80 hull might work well if it had better endurance.

And if the US Navy builds more LCS, the mothership needs to be able to swap a mission module at sea, and carry some to swap forward in its cargo hold.

In other words, to me a mothership is a slightly armed L class ship with a focus on presence, sustainment, and logistical support somewhere in the 25K tons range and able to support a full rifle company of marines or NECC troops, while supporting a number of deployable surface, subsurface, and aviation craft in a maritime domain awareness role in a littoral.
I have a couple problems with the LPD-17.

First is price.

$1.2 billion could buy 10 of these RORO conversions.

10 ships lets you be in a lot more places, or stay longer, or carry more. You could put three of these ships at three different GFS home ports and rotate them to their operating area to always have at least one on station. The other two can be undergoing maintenance or sitting, ready and loaded, to surge capability to a region.

Second is aviation capacity.

If an amphibious ship is a requirement, for the money and tonnage, I'd rather have a flattop like the French Mistral, or Australian Canberra. The Mistral has a six helo spots and can hangar up to 16 H-60 sized or 35 light helos. The Canberra is similar, IIRC.

Of course, 10 ROROs with elevators could have, in aggregate, 10 or 20 helo deck spots, and carry dozens of helos.

Individually, ROROs are obviously less survivable than an LPD or LHA, but with proper self defense and damage control capabilities, they wouldn't be total sitting ducks. All of these ships would require escort anyway. And the survival of capability favors 10 ships over one.

I'm not sold on using an LPD as a mothership for M-80 sized boats. To me, the only way you only really benefit from the mothership concept is if you can carry a large number of smaller vessels. LPD plus M-80 seems like a real expensive way to carry just two or three boats to the fight.

IMHO, you'd be better off buying a cost equivalent number self-deployable corvettes and corvette tenders. Then at least you'd have real warships. Plus the corvette's greater range and seakeeping would allow the tender to stand off further. And a single tender could support a large number of corvettes.
 
Last edited:

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
What would be the anticipated "footprint" as it were for the mothership and the attached platforms? I would think this would determine both the number and type of attached platforms needed, as well as the type and frequency of contacts.

For something like a congested waterway, I would think a large number of small platforms would be of greater use than a small number of large platforms. Even with the ability to deploy an 11m RHIB, I don't think 2 M80 vessels could conduct as many searchs as 9 CB90-sized vessels which I believe take up a comparable volume.

As for the preference between a San Antonio LPD or Canberra LHD for a mothership, the costs are likely to be comparable. The expected San Antonio LPD per ship is $1.2 bil with the current expected Canberra LHD around $1.5 bil. The Canberra will have more spots/hangar space for helicopters, but likely a smaller self-defence suite (ie no ESSM). Now if the San Antonio program hadn't run into significant problems, with the lead ship almost double expected price and the 2nd ship something like 50%-75% more than expected, then the overall cost per ship would be less. Similarly, if the San Antonio order was restored to 12 ships instead of 9, that should drop the average cost as well.

-Cheers
 

buglerbilly

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The Canberra will have more spots/hangar space for helicopters, but likely a smaller self-defence suite (ie no ESSM).
The last report I read said the LPD-17's do NOT have ESSM fitted. They do have the blanked off space but not the VLS?

Has this changed again to now include the system?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
...As for the preference between a San Antonio LPD or Canberra LHD for a mothership, the costs are likely to be comparable. The expected San Antonio LPD per ship is $1.2 bil with the current expected Canberra LHD around $1.5 bil. ...
-Cheers
I thought the Oz LHDs were budgeted at Australian $3 bn (US$2.5 billion) for the complete programme, which is more than the ships. Juan Carlos is only costing 360 million Euros, though that price leaves out some things. Probably 500 million Euros complete.
 
Top