Nuclear Subs

[10ringr]

I'll believe you in that the USN has got some pretty advanced sonars. However, how could a Chinese nuclear sub (I think) come as close as a mile away from an American carrier, half a year ago or so?

T
A very good question and one people usually don't want to hear. Like the Clinton Administration who gave away our most advanced guidance systems under the guise of commericial space ventures and the most advanced nuclear warhead design it shouldn't surprise anybody that they have this ability. If you want proof look at the Chinese most advance destroyers, don't they look surprisingly similar to our own Aegis destroyers like Arleigh Burke, their CWIS and other equipment has been provided by greedy US defense contactors and I expect the F23 which never went into production to get sold to them to because money is what matters anymore.

 

[Truculent]

An ssk is a barrier weapon.The Chinese just waited for the Carrier group to come to them.I am sure their intel would know when the usual flag waving exercise was going to take place and where.It is just a matter of getting to the spot in good time and waiting.

 

[Jade]

I cannot see the point of announcing a slbm in your order of battle if the platform that is going to carry it is still under development!

Well mate, the Isralis have the Popeye sub launched nuclear missile but they use that on a conventional sub !!!

Isn't the Indian sub launched cruise missile really a Brahmos ie. Russian assisted missile ?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Well mate, the Isralis have the Popeye sub launched nuclear missile but they use that on a conventional sub !!!

Isn't the Indian sub launched cruise missile really a Brahmos ie. Russian assisted missile ?

The israelis don't declare their subs to be SSGN's or SSKN's.

Curious as to which operational Indian subs have the requisite diameter sized slots to load Brahmos?

 

[ainanup23]

One last thing. The six Indian navy Scorpenes will be equipped with MESMA AIP systems.

Never mind if the Scorpene are equipped by Mesma AIP, warfare below the sea depends lot on survival tactics employed by the navy man. The French are supplying the Agosta 90B to Pakistan and Scorpene to the Indian NAvy. Who has the edge will depend on the superior sonars. Indians are planning to euip the Scorpene with some sonars developed inhouse apart from the one being supplied the Scorpene.

 

[ainanup23]

Well mate, the Isralis have the Popeye sub launched nuclear missile but they use that on a conventional sub !!!

Isn't the Indian sub launched cruise missile really a Brahmos ie. Russian assisted missile ?

The beauty of the cruise missile is Brahmos can fly at Mach3 speed . It is being inducted in the Indian Navy ships but its integration in the subsare still being tested. Brahmos is good but it`s range is 290km.

 

[nero]

The israelis don't declare their subs to be SSGN's or SSKN's.

Curious as to which operational Indian subs have the requisite diameter sized slots to load Brahmos?

.

none of the indian SSKs have the requisite diameter sized slots to load Brahmos

may be the ATV has this capability , but iam not sure

.

 

[ainanup23]

Hey, can't anyone answer this ?

AAADITYA IS RIGHT BUT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE INDIAN NUCLEAR SUB REACTOR WILL BE ENRICHED URANIUM FUELLED , THE TEAM IS FCAING PROBLEM IN INTEGRATING THE REACTOR TO THE HULL. APART FROM THE BRITISH AND THE ISRAELI SOME INDEGIONOUS SONARS DEVELOPED BY DRDO WILL ALSO BE MOUNTED ON THE ATV.

Admin: Please refrain from typing in CAPS. Its impolite and denotes yelling.

 

[Grand Danois]

@ainanup23

Please don't use capital letters in the entire post. I gives the impression that you're shouting.

Thanks
/GD

 

[Jade]

India Inducts Submarine Based Nuclear Capable Sagarika Ballistic Missile


Dated 7/7/2007
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Television news channel 'CNN-IBN' reports that India has inducted the Sagarika SLBM - Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile - into the Armed Forces.

With the induction of Sagarika, India has completed the triad of India's nuclear weapons delivery systems. This was made known at a Defence Research and Development Organisation function in New Delhi on Saturday where the team responsible for the development of the Sagarika was felicitated.

Sources say the Sagarika has a range of 1,000 km and has been accepted for induction by the Navy. The missile is likely to be installed on the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV). ATV is the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine that is expected to be launched next year.

This report is yet to be confirmed by Indian Navy or Ministry of Defence sources

=======
Well, what do you think of that ?

Are the chinese much better than this and by how much ????

I was referring to the Sagarika missile.

I think it is actually a Brahmos.

Anyway, I heard the Indians have mated the Nuclear power plant to the ATV's hull.

 

[ainanup23]

I was referring to the Sagarika missile.

I think it is actually a Brahmos.

Anyway, I heard the Indians have mated the Nuclear power plant to the ATV's hull.

The real problem is now with the mating of the power plant and the hull. The hull to be fabricated of special steel.
As for the missile , Sagarika is the naval version of Prithvi, but its cumbersome compared to the Brahmos, Brahmos is sleek and can be easily fitted into the Sub, whereas Sagarika is facing problem , during the previous tests it has topped more than twice during tests

 

[Jade]

The real problem is now with the mating of the power plant and the hull. The hull to be fabricated of special steel.
As for the missile , Sagarika is the naval version of Prithvi, but its cumbersome compared to the Brahmos, Brahmos is sleek and can be easily fitted into the Sub, whereas Sagarika is facing problem , during the previous tests it has topped more than twice during tests

Rahul Bedi in a news article in IndiaPRWire, dated 17 May 2007, stated the following;

• The vessel will be based on the Charlie I Class boat and will be 124 meters long, have a displacement of 4000 tons and be fitted with a 100 MW nuclear reactor, developed jointly by DAE (Department of Atomic Energy) and DRDO (Defence Research & Development Organisation). Bharat Rakshak Note: Earlier reports indicated that the boat could likely resemble the Russian Navy's new Severodvinsk Class attack submarine and/or the Akula Class attack submarine, of which the Indian Navy reportedly plans to lease a pair.

• The 100 MW nuclear reactor went critical in October 2004 at Kalpakkam and is now fully operational. A miniaturised version of the reactor is under construction for integration into the ATV at Visakhapatnam.

In July 2006, then-incumbent Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee inspected the ATV's reactor project while participating in the 20th anniversary celebrations of the commissioning of the Fast Breeder Test Reactor at the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research in Kalpakkam. Earlier, in October 2004, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited the ATV facility when he launched the construction of the Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor. The Prototype Testing Centre at Kalpakkam will be used to test the boat's turbines & propellers while a similar facility at Visakhapatnam will run trials on the vessel's main turbines & gearbox.

• Officials familiar with the ATV project stated that the highly enriched uranium fuel for the reactor was supplied by the Rare Materials Project (RMP) in Ratnahalli near Mysore, Karnataka. The four to five years delay in the reactor reaching criticality, was due to the extended time taken by RMP to produce an adequate quantity of uranium, the officials added.

While many components of the reactor like the steam-generator and the control rod mechanism have been indigenously developed within India itself, senior naval officers stated that Russia had helped Indian scientists overcome certain technical hurdles. This included assistance not only in designing the vessel's reactor, but also guidelines in eventually mating it with the boat's hull. The involvement of Larsen & Toubro, that began in 2001, helped kick-start the stalled ATV project. L&T was awarded the contract to build the hull (code named P 4102) at its Hazira dockyard facility in Gujarat and has already floated sections of it on a barge to Visakhapatnam.

 

[gf0012-aust]

As for the missile , Sagarika is the naval version of Prithvi, but its cumbersome compared to the Brahmos, Brahmos is sleek and can be easily fitted into the Sub, whereas Sagarika is facing problem

You can't do a comparison. Brahmos is a TLS (or PLS if they're desperate to create a dismounted solution) weapon system, Privthi and its variants are VLS.

Brahmos is a cruise missile, Privthi is an SRBM. Its far easier to try and mount Brahmos even as a PLS than try to modify any sub to take Privthi.

They're completely diff solutions requiring significant engineering changes to the weapons carrying system.

 

[Jade]

You can't do a comparison. Brahmos is a TLS (or PLS if they're desperate to create a dismounted solution) weapon system, Privthi and its variants are VLS.

Brahmos is a cruise missile, Privthi is an SRBM. Its far easier to try and mount Brahmos even as a PLS than try to modify any sub to take Privthi.

They're completely diff solutions requiring significant engineering changes to the weapons carrying system.

Sorry mate, you are a way ahead of me in naval matters.

What is TLs, VLS, PLS ??


What do you think of Chinese and Indian Sonar's ??

Is this an expensive technology ?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Sorry mate, you are a way ahead of me in naval matters.

What is TLs, VLS, PLS ??


What do you think of Chinese and Indian Sonar's ??

Is this an expensive technology ?

Sorry mate for being late - been a little distracted on the work front...

with respect to subs:

TLS = Torpedo Launched (or Tube) specifically when referring to subs
PLS = Palletised, or in times past Peripheral Launch System. Palletised in a sense is an All Up Round external housing, whereas Peripheral can also refer to the concept of rimmed fixed angle mounts
VLS = Vertical Launch System. Your atypical SSBN and current USN SSGN.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Is there a list of rules I might acquire so I don't hurt anyones feelings? Hutch

Certainly. http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

If you'd seen the difficulties we faced on here 3-4 years ago, you'd understand why we're so tough with the rules.

In actual fact we have had complainst that we were getting slack, and that we needed to subscribe to the rules literally.

We do try to inject some fluidity and flexibility into the decisions. But they are there for evryones benefit in the end.

So, they're not a vehicle of draconian strength just to make us feel better.

 

[Jade]

Sorry mate for being late - been a little distracted on the work front...

with respect to subs:

TLS = Torpedo Launched (or Tube) specifically when referring to subs
PLS = Palletised, or in times past Peripheral Launch System. Palletised in a sense is an All Up Round external housing, whereas Peripheral can also refer to the concept of rimmed fixed angle mounts
VLS = Vertical Launch System. Your atypical SSBN and current USN SSGN.

Are TLS, PLS, and VLS capable of launching ICBM's ?

Why have the Indians preferred to install their own sonars on subs ordered from Russia ?

Is this sonar an expensive technology ?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Are TLS, PLS, and VLS capable of launching ICBM's ?

Only VLS

Why have the Indians preferred to install their own sonars on subs ordered from Russia ?

Well, Indias policy is to have indigenous solutions wherever possible, if there is no indigenous solution, then maximum ToT is expected. In the past they have used French and Russian sonar, so one would assume that a relatively complete ToT was enabled as part of the condition of purchase. That would indicate that a baseline capability exists to develop her own off the transferred models.

Is this sonar an expensive technology ?

The more complex the capability, the more expensive it will be. Sonar is only a subset of the suite - so if the rest of the suite is poor - then the sonar will perform to a limitation.

in rough terms - esp with ewarfare and UDT solutions, "pay peanuts - get monkeys" is pretty well much the outcome.

 

[kato]

Well, you could in theory make Brahmos TLS-capable... build a container capsule that takes it up to the surface for remote launch (similar to the ones for TLS Harpoon), and install a 30-inch diameter torpedo tube to launch that container from the sub

 

[Jade]

Only VLS



Well, Indias policy is to have indigenous solutions wherever possible, if there is no indigenous solution, then maximum ToT is expected. In the past they have used French and Russian sonar, so one would assume that a relatively complete ToT was enabled as part of the condition of purchase. That would indicate that a baseline capability exists to develop her own off the transferred models.



The more complex the capability, the more expensive it will be. Sonar is only a subset of the suite - so if the rest of the suite is poor - then the sonar will perform to a limitation.

in rough terms - esp with ewarfare and UDT solutions, "pay peanuts - get monkeys" is pretty well much the outcome.

Sonar is only a subset of the suite - so if the rest of the suite is poor - then the sonar will perform to a limitation.

Pls explain the rest of the suite, if u can.

How do subs fire land attack missiles?

Do they have to surface to do so ?
Or, can thet fire them from deep beneath the ocean ?