Thanks - I`ll do some digging around.
Cause of German Tank Success
- Thread starter redsoulja
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FutureTank
Banned Member
USSR had some excellent lens grinding producers, however there were a lot of demands for other products. There was no capacity for quality on par with Germans for the sort of quantities required by the Tank Arm. Most of the quality optics went to the Air Force I believe.
I am in total agreement with you - it was a matter of priorities.
At the later stages of the war Russia was able to spread that capability around to other weapons platforms.
FutureTank
Banned Member
I have read where tankers in T-34s would 'field-modify' sights.
What type of field modifications did they do.
FutureTank
Banned Member
The sights were hand-etched to provide greater precision to the gunner. This was done by expereinced crews who have had their tank gun 'pristrelinniy', which means calibrated through repetitive firing. The need was because without stabilisation each gun assumed its own unique 'behaviour'. This was reuired every time the turret was damaged and had to be recalibrated.
The T-34 was not a 'perfect' tank. Although production was supposed to commence in 1940, much of that year was spent working out transition change in the manufacturing plants, and establishing quality control.
Still in 1941 alone 770 changes were made in the design, and throught he war over 3,500 changes in design were made by manufacturers alone.
Are you interested in the T-34 sights in particular? I don't have access to all the changes made, and this is proably neither the thread nor the forum for it
I know that a shaved sapling was used to temporarily replace the connecting transmission rod
worth about 50km runningPouring oil onto the hot engine was the first time tank-created smoke screen was used.
Hey folks, first post here, so hello to everybody. Anyways, I found this discussion really interesting so far, so I have to add my two cents.
Oddly enough, quite a few people expressed their opinion the germans should have stuck to simple mass producable designs. I am not too sure about this.
had the germans build a Tank like the Sherman or the T34 they for sure would have had more tanks. But does anybody believe those numbers would have qualed those of the russians or the US? I kinda doubt that. That means, germany "had" to rely on aulaity instead of quantity. This way was their only chance to get something like a parity in that game. I also dont think the Panther is any worse then the T34 or the sherman out of these reasons. Had the USSR or the US produced teh Panther, this tank would have had both quality AND quantity and thus would have been the best tank of the war. What many ppl miss is that Germany just did not posess those industrial capacities on par with its opponents, thus the whole quantity argument is kinda flawed.
Something towards early german tank designs compared to french ones. It is true that german tanks back then had less armor and firepower then for example a Mathilda (british) or the Soma.
But they also had two immense advantages over those other tanks. One was 5 crew stations, the commander not also acting as a gunner, as such much better able to coordinate attacks, and radio. That, combined with new tactics, made those tanks so successful. The biggest gun is of no worth if you can't see the enemy or coordinate the attack. The T34 had a very similiar problem in the beginning, and thus was easily outflanked and destroyed from behind. Only these feats made the new tactics as successful as they were.
Oddly enough, quite a few people expressed their opinion the germans should have stuck to simple mass producable designs. I am not too sure about this.
had the germans build a Tank like the Sherman or the T34 they for sure would have had more tanks. But does anybody believe those numbers would have qualed those of the russians or the US? I kinda doubt that. That means, germany "had" to rely on aulaity instead of quantity. This way was their only chance to get something like a parity in that game. I also dont think the Panther is any worse then the T34 or the sherman out of these reasons. Had the USSR or the US produced teh Panther, this tank would have had both quality AND quantity and thus would have been the best tank of the war. What many ppl miss is that Germany just did not posess those industrial capacities on par with its opponents, thus the whole quantity argument is kinda flawed.
Something towards early german tank designs compared to french ones. It is true that german tanks back then had less armor and firepower then for example a Mathilda (british) or the Soma.
But they also had two immense advantages over those other tanks. One was 5 crew stations, the commander not also acting as a gunner, as such much better able to coordinate attacks, and radio. That, combined with new tactics, made those tanks so successful. The biggest gun is of no worth if you can't see the enemy or coordinate the attack. The T34 had a very similiar problem in the beginning, and thus was easily outflanked and destroyed from behind. Only these feats made the new tactics as successful as they were.
Germans are very good at engineering. Therefore their tanks are the best in the world. They have good tanks and tactics.
Yes - Germany is very good at engineering combat vehicles, but a good statement to convey would be that they build some of the best tanks in the world.
.Yes - Germany is very good at engineering combat vehicles, but a good statement to convey would be that they build some of the best tanks in the world.
we all agree !!
but one of the leading causes for the sucess of german tanks is that theyuall have a good power:weight ratio
also unlike most tanks german tanks provide comfort & legroom to the crew
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T-34 was revolucionary tank it was the perfect balance of heavy amour and speed but it had bad communication. Mark IV Panzer German tank didn't have exactly spectacular armor , it was slightly better as M4 Sherman , Panther had very good mobility, excellent gun, good engine. Germany would have had the best chance is they could have consentrated all their manufacturing capacity on these. Production of the Tiger was rushed and result in lots of technical problems leading to breakdowns on the battlefield.
One of the big problems with the Tigers was not only its limited tactical mobility, but its limited strategic mobility with its combat track installed, they were wider than the railroad flat cars.
M4 Sherman wasn't really that fast , and the first variants were armed with a shity gun , later they had a better 76mm, they were also quite flammable.
All in all I consider the T-34 and Panther to be the best tanks of WW2
Which modern tank doesn`t have a good power to weight ratio, and have a ample amount of room in them, besides most Eastern Europe models. I would have to state though that the suspension on a LEO 2 series is kick butt over a M1 series. There is just something about a tank getting air borne that lets me know that men have nipples to.
Back to the original question-
It was not just good-quality tanks that allowed the Panzer Divisions to succeed. Everybody had tanks back then.
In 1940, the Germans also had armored Halftracks to carry the Infantry working closely with the tanks, and other Halftracks with Flak guns. There were also Self-Propelled artillery units; Mk. I's with 150mm Infantry cannon. Also assualt-artillery, fully armored chassis with 75mm guns meant to face strong enemy fire... and press the attack.
Nobody else in the world had vehicles like these at that time. They existed because of good planning and serious staff work.
It was not just good-quality tanks that allowed the Panzer Divisions to succeed. Everybody had tanks back then.
In 1940, the Germans also had armored Halftracks to carry the Infantry working closely with the tanks, and other Halftracks with Flak guns. There were also Self-Propelled artillery units; Mk. I's with 150mm Infantry cannon. Also assualt-artillery, fully armored chassis with 75mm guns meant to face strong enemy fire... and press the attack.
Nobody else in the world had vehicles like these at that time. They existed because of good planning and serious staff work.
You are right, sorry.Yes - Germany is very good at engineering combat vehicles, but a good statement to convey would be that they build some of the best tanks in the world.
Because the Germans had it all figgured out , blitzkrieg was a perfect tactic at that time , it was mostly based on light tanks at the moment , speed , agility , infantry and armor supported by luftwaffe , first they selected strategic targets then send luftwaffe to destroy them ( rail lines , communications aswell as to make some damage to the enemy lines ) betwen this the german tanks and infantry were aproaching and when the luftwaffe went back the ground troops were already there giving them no time to recover , and i agree that half track was a nice vehicle , most infantry moved with it.German staff was also very smart , too bad that Hitler started doing it his way on the Eastern front later , he made many tactical mistakes .
Tank wise German armor in WW2 wasn`t the best that was out there until 1943 when the Panther D made her debut during the battle of Kursk, the Panther D had some major mechanical problems during that time frame but when the Panther A rolled out things were starting to work out, question I have in regards to the different Panther models. Why did Germany designate the letter D for a model type versus going with the designation A model first.
The last model designated G was one of the best tanks fielded at the end of the war, it had speed, awesome firepower and armor protection.
The other major player during this time frame belonged to the Russians with the T -34, the tank made its debut at the beginning of the war and lasted until the very end with the T -34/85 model giving it excellant firepower/protection combined with excellant mobility. The T - 34/85 still soldiers on even today in some of the smaller cash strapped armies. I would also rate the T -34 as one of the best tanks of WW2.
The last model designated G was one of the best tanks fielded at the end of the war, it had speed, awesome firepower and armor protection.
The other major player during this time frame belonged to the Russians with the T -34, the tank made its debut at the beginning of the war and lasted until the very end with the T -34/85 model giving it excellant firepower/protection combined with excellant mobility. The T - 34/85 still soldiers on even today in some of the smaller cash strapped armies. I would also rate the T -34 as one of the best tanks of WW2.
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The T34 was a quantum leap in design because it was the first tank built for very quick mass production from day-one. It used a cast rather than a welded steel turret and chassis (greatly reducing production man-hours), had an excellent main gun, simple engine and wide tracks for both winter and spring conditions. Like the AK47 it was built cheaply for one thing - killing!
I recal reading that when the Germans first captured an intact T34 they claimed it would not have left the German factory becuase it would have failed quality control!
One of the reasons the Germans failed to produce tanks in significant numbers during the latter days of WWII is because they were trying to produce too may different models - if like the Russians they had stuck with one design (Panther A for example) and focused all their efforts on increasing production then they may have prolonged the war subject to availalbe man-power to crew the machines.
I recal reading that when the Germans first captured an intact T34 they claimed it would not have left the German factory becuase it would have failed quality control!
One of the reasons the Germans failed to produce tanks in significant numbers during the latter days of WWII is because they were trying to produce too may different models - if like the Russians they had stuck with one design (Panther A for example) and focused all their efforts on increasing production then they may have prolonged the war subject to availalbe man-power to crew the machines.
I was watching this interesting documentary in Discovery Channel about tanks, mainly which 10 ones are the best in history. It had a segment on the Panther tank. In that segment, they showed a team whose project was to restore a Panther tank to mint running condition. During the course of overhaul and restoration, they discovered that many of the parts used in the Panther are vastly over engineered, strong enough to last for years of abuse. Yet the tank is only expected to last for weeks in the battle front.
That obsession for over engineering probably helped did the Germans in. They continued to insist on building things that were too complicated or in quality levels that wasn't necessary for their predicament.
In the course of the show, the Panther was duly restored and a former Panther tank commander was given the honors to give it a whirl.
They also showed the T-34, and a certain rich person (I think he was a rock star) showed his running T-34 tank, which he had a great blast driving out in the range. The T-34 was quite agile for the concept of a tank, and remarkably drivable. It seemed idiot proofed enough for any Russian peasant boy to get in and drive it quickly.
Despite the lackluster optics of the tank, it didn't seem to matter, since a lot of T-34 battles were duked out in close range. A tactic that tank frequently uses is to ram the enemy, where the wedge shaped end of the sloping armor in the front of the tank makes a great bumper. In the course of the war, they also explained that many T-34s were simply driven out straight from the factory and into the war front without any need to go through quality inspection.
That obsession for over engineering probably helped did the Germans in. They continued to insist on building things that were too complicated or in quality levels that wasn't necessary for their predicament.
In the course of the show, the Panther was duly restored and a former Panther tank commander was given the honors to give it a whirl.
They also showed the T-34, and a certain rich person (I think he was a rock star) showed his running T-34 tank, which he had a great blast driving out in the range. The T-34 was quite agile for the concept of a tank, and remarkably drivable. It seemed idiot proofed enough for any Russian peasant boy to get in and drive it quickly.
Despite the lackluster optics of the tank, it didn't seem to matter, since a lot of T-34 battles were duked out in close range. A tactic that tank frequently uses is to ram the enemy, where the wedge shaped end of the sloping armor in the front of the tank makes a great bumper. In the course of the war, they also explained that many T-34s were simply driven out straight from the factory and into the war front without any need to go through quality inspection.
Very good. And yet there was something the Germans didn't build enough of, a vast oversight if you will, which tends to happen on things and matters people would consider mundane and that helped do them in. That vehicle is the plain old truck.