Yeah, the Russian missiles were obvious to me, sloppy phrasing of me. But what French missiles do IAF have? I thought Mica was excluded in the Mirage 2000 upgrade and they choose Israeli ones instead. But I should have learnt to not take Indian media news as truth.
New Indian Air Force Fighter competition
- Thread starter jaffo4011
- Start date
They were allies of US & NATO nations in 1970s, yet they went to full scale war.
radiosilence
jints
I have to disagree with you. Greek and Turkish F-16s engage in dog fights quite often which can easily lead to a full scale war. I am not so sure that EU sanctions would bankrupt Turkey. The Turks does have some leverage as some of Europe's gas pass through Turkish territory. Having said all this, its not out of the norm for two bitter rivals to operate the same platform.
No they didn't. They were very careful not to go to war with each other. Both sides were on alert, but they were careful to keep the fighting to Cyprus, & the Greeks did not commit either their navy or air force to defend it, nor attempt to reinforce the Greek troops seconded to the Cypriot National Guard.
Turkey fought Cyprus - a separate country, not part of Greece. There were Greek troops in Cyprus, attached to the Greek Cypriot forces, who fought the Turks, but they were on their own once the war started. Turkey & Greece did not fight, except perhaps for some (officially non-existent) clashes between their air forces over the sea. Maybe a subtle distinction, but one both countries clearly considered of vital importance.
They engage in dogfights in which nobody fires. Why do you think that is? What happened last time a plane crashed as a result of one of these encounters? There was an immediate crisis meeting to calm things down.
Neither side wants a war.
Go & look up some figures on the Turkish economy, & you will discover how much it depends on the EU. 60% of Turkish export earnings, plus remittances & about 80% of its tourism income are from the EU.
radiosilence
jints
A Greek pilot died! That enought for some countries to start a war. History have shown us the death of one person has been the catalyst for war. They fought in Cyprus where Turkish and Greek troops engage each other. If Greece expands its territorial waters to 12nm in the Aegean sea, Turkey has said this is "casus belli" . The Turks are not as depended on the EU as you make it out to be. IIRC, many Turks don't want to join the EU anymore and who can blame them with all the BS they are being put through. Let say the EU sanction the Turks, the Turks will shut down gas supplies to parts of Europe. No one wins. So to say EU sanctions will bring the Turks down to their knees is ludicrous.
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you are right,mica was selected as a part of the mirage upgrade ,though i do not know the status of the deal,it seems that the upgrade deal will not be as comprehensive as it was initially thought to be ,though i still think indian airforce will acquire the mica,indian airforce has no plans for acquiring the python-5 and derby missiles.
the other french missiles in the indian airforce service are the matra magic and the as530f.
Enough for some countries, maybe - but instead of a war, there was an outbreak of negotiations. What does that tell you? And about Cyprus, didn't you notice that the war stayed in Cyprus? Both sides tacitly agreed to keep it that way. The Greek & Turkish armed forces avoided fighting each other directly.
About the EU & Turkey - do you think the figures I quoted were false? Both the Turkish national statistics office & Eurostat agree on them, so I doubt it. The Baku-Ceyhan pipeline (oil, BTW, not gas) can carry up to 6% of EU consumption, operating flat out, & doesn't all go to EU countries anyway. Oh dear. It'd put prices up a bit, but that's all. And since you've shown your lack of knowledge in this area by saying "the Turks will shut down gas supplies to parts of Europe", when the Turks can't shut down any gas supplies to anywhere, perhaps you will concede that I know better?
I fail to see the relevance of Turks wanting or not wanting to join the EU to whether the Turkish economy is dependent on EU trade. One is an attitude, the other is hard fact. And who said "bring the Turks down to their knees"? Not me. I don't think that will ever happen, & if they were on their knees it'd only be to take aim better.
What I think is that Turkish politicians, & all but the most hot-headed military commanders are very well aware of Turkish economic dependence on the EU, & what any war with Greece would cost them, & take it into account when making decisions. Turks are proud, & don't take kindly to being ordered around (good for them!). They aren't stupid. In fact, pretty canny, in my experience, & I've been there often. I like the place a lot. People very hospitable, very honest - and I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of them.
radiosilence
jints
You seem to think that you can have "control wars". War is very unpredictable. Can you guarantee that they will not be a war between Greece and Turkey? There are outstanding unresolve issues that can easily escalate into a war between these two countries. You are the one that brought up trade and how the EU can bankrupt the Turkish economy. Tourisms brings in about 18 billion dollars a year. Thats a substancial number but bankrupt the Turkish economy? The Turkish economy brings in some where between 85-100 billion. They are plans to piped more gas through Turkish territory from central Asia to Europe. When those plan materialized the Turks will have more leverage with the EU.
The chances of war between India and Pakistan are greatly reduce now that both are Nuclear powers which act as a deterrence to both sides. Also, relations have been improving between India and Pakistan recently.
Who can guarantee anything? But it is very improbable. You seem to be sure that two countries which have successfully avoided directly fighting each other since 1922, despite all the issues you mention, are suddenly going to throw away those 75 years of peace the next time one of the issues they've managed to cope with for all that time flares up. It doesn't seem likely, does it?
Why are you concentrating on tourism? If you'd bothered to read what I wrote, you'd have seen that in addition to 80% of tourist income, 60% of Turkish exports go to the EU, & Turkey gets a bit more in remittances from Turks living in the EU. Also some aid, though that is a relatively small amount, & a lot of investment. Altogether, almost 70% of Turkish overseas income is from the EU.
Out of date. Plans changed. New gas pipelines will now bypass Turkey.
radiosilence
jints
They fought directly against each other in Cyprus. GREEK AND TURKISH TROOPS ENGAGED EACH OTHER! is that not true? They frequently have dogfights using F-16s. A Greek pilot unfortunately died the last this happen. There is territorial issues in the Aegean sea which the Turks have said if the Greeks expand their terrritorial water it will be a "casus belli". Maybe you can look pass all these examples i provided and think the chances of a conflict/war is non-existent or very slim but I would say the chances of a war between India/Pakistan war is less likely now that Nuclear weapons act as deterrent.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Mod edit:
Gentleman,
ENOUGH.
This thread is about the new Indian fighter. Get back to discussing that topic.
AD.
Gentleman,
ENOUGH.
This thread is about the new Indian fighter. Get back to discussing that topic.
AD.
Lolling Around
New Member
Link plz??
hey guys,check out this interesting article ,it gives an insight into the logistics problems faced by the indian airforce for the participation in the indo-uk defence excercises.
here is the link and the article:
http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=29086
The ongoing bilateral Indo-UK air exercise - 'Indradhanush 2007', at Waddington involves primarily - flying activities. On terra firma overseas, a great deal however involved meticulous logistics, phenomenal administrative, technically flawless and sound operational planning.
At the forefront of such planning have been IAF officers at Air HQ, New Delhi, South Western Air Command (SWAC) HQ, Gandhinagar, Central Air Command (CAC) HQ, Allahabad, and at the Air Force Bases at Pune and Agra, for over six months.
"Bringing it to fruition was a challenge" says Wing Commander AC Chopra, of the elaborate exercise planning. The Deputy Team Leader who together with the Logistics Officer, Wing Comander Manish Dialani and few more officers from the operational and maintenance side made visits earlier to the UK for coordinating the requirements.
"The challenge has just begun," maintains Wing Commander Dialani, of the vast logistical issues that will need winding-up after thorough scrutiny when the team members leave. They were among the core members who arrived at UK ahead of the IAF team and will be amongst the last to leave.
"It is good to have a logistics officer accompanying the team" - echoed most IAF members as the nitty-gritty of accommodation, transportation and food have been well taken care of. Wing Commander Chopra – 'Choppy' – to mates on either side, who had a year's stint earlier at UK during his Staff course in 2003, was on a familiar ground and that helped matters in administrative tie-ups, locally.
"My airmen leave very early in the morning everyday to get the fighters ready in time for the day's exercise. Their requirements of breakfast and vehicles are timely, the going has been smooth" admitted Squadron Leader SBH Reddy, Senior Technical Officer (STO) of the 'Rhinos'. He is at the helm-of-affairs of the technical maintenance of the fighters, and together with his motivated technicians, aims at a '100-percent serviceability' of all the jets during the exercise.
Just 3 miles North of the Royal Air Force (RAF) Waddington, the University of Lincoln is normally bustling with student activities. Averaging nearly 17,500 students, the campus now is transformed into a military bastion besieged by the combined strength of Ex-Indradhanush airmen from the two elite Air Forces of the world - IAF and RAF. "It has been possible to accommodate the members from both Air Forces as the students are on vacation," informs the management at the University.
With the exercise venue being at RAF Waddington, an arrangement convenient with the University now houses 150-members from IAF and 75 from RAF's No. 25 Squadron. The visitors couldn't have asked for a better location. At just a walking distance from the city center, and the centuries old historical Lincoln Cathedral and the Lincoln Castle, the University forms an ideal retreat.
"We are very happy with the arrangements," says Master Warrant Officer D Arpurtharaj, the senior-most airman from the 'Rhinos', on behalf of his boys. Since it is a first-ever 'out-of-country' assignment for nearly all, the excitement, enthusiasm and joie de vivre is palpable in their day-to-day activities in the flight line.
Sickness, another of the worries has been mostly kept at bay. "Primarily there have been only a few cases of loose motions, upper respiratory infections – bronchitis, because of the weather," informs Wing Commander D Chakraborty, the Aviation Medicine specialist accompanying the team who has set-up a small 'medical centre' within the 'daily servicing section' for the ease of his patients. The IAF members arrived at Waddington in the thick of British monsoons after experiencing a simmering hot spell at Doha and Tanagra that led to respiratory problems for a few.
That the exercise is truly going on smoothly and on schedule is a result of the efforts of innumerable IAF air warriors at various levels. The IAF contingent has been presenting themselves as a well turned-out and disciplined outfit. "Surely our Air Warriors deserve to be kitted with the best, for they are representing India," said Wing Commander Shyam Sunder proudly, the Senior Logistics Officer at Air Force Station, Race Course, New Delhi before the team's departure from India. The Station is responsible for all the kitting of IAF contingents when going abroad on UN missions and other foreign assignments.
here is the link and the article:
http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=29086
The ongoing bilateral Indo-UK air exercise - 'Indradhanush 2007', at Waddington involves primarily - flying activities. On terra firma overseas, a great deal however involved meticulous logistics, phenomenal administrative, technically flawless and sound operational planning.
At the forefront of such planning have been IAF officers at Air HQ, New Delhi, South Western Air Command (SWAC) HQ, Gandhinagar, Central Air Command (CAC) HQ, Allahabad, and at the Air Force Bases at Pune and Agra, for over six months.
"Bringing it to fruition was a challenge" says Wing Commander AC Chopra, of the elaborate exercise planning. The Deputy Team Leader who together with the Logistics Officer, Wing Comander Manish Dialani and few more officers from the operational and maintenance side made visits earlier to the UK for coordinating the requirements.
"The challenge has just begun," maintains Wing Commander Dialani, of the vast logistical issues that will need winding-up after thorough scrutiny when the team members leave. They were among the core members who arrived at UK ahead of the IAF team and will be amongst the last to leave.
"It is good to have a logistics officer accompanying the team" - echoed most IAF members as the nitty-gritty of accommodation, transportation and food have been well taken care of. Wing Commander Chopra – 'Choppy' – to mates on either side, who had a year's stint earlier at UK during his Staff course in 2003, was on a familiar ground and that helped matters in administrative tie-ups, locally.
"My airmen leave very early in the morning everyday to get the fighters ready in time for the day's exercise. Their requirements of breakfast and vehicles are timely, the going has been smooth" admitted Squadron Leader SBH Reddy, Senior Technical Officer (STO) of the 'Rhinos'. He is at the helm-of-affairs of the technical maintenance of the fighters, and together with his motivated technicians, aims at a '100-percent serviceability' of all the jets during the exercise.
Just 3 miles North of the Royal Air Force (RAF) Waddington, the University of Lincoln is normally bustling with student activities. Averaging nearly 17,500 students, the campus now is transformed into a military bastion besieged by the combined strength of Ex-Indradhanush airmen from the two elite Air Forces of the world - IAF and RAF. "It has been possible to accommodate the members from both Air Forces as the students are on vacation," informs the management at the University.
With the exercise venue being at RAF Waddington, an arrangement convenient with the University now houses 150-members from IAF and 75 from RAF's No. 25 Squadron. The visitors couldn't have asked for a better location. At just a walking distance from the city center, and the centuries old historical Lincoln Cathedral and the Lincoln Castle, the University forms an ideal retreat.
"We are very happy with the arrangements," says Master Warrant Officer D Arpurtharaj, the senior-most airman from the 'Rhinos', on behalf of his boys. Since it is a first-ever 'out-of-country' assignment for nearly all, the excitement, enthusiasm and joie de vivre is palpable in their day-to-day activities in the flight line.
Sickness, another of the worries has been mostly kept at bay. "Primarily there have been only a few cases of loose motions, upper respiratory infections – bronchitis, because of the weather," informs Wing Commander D Chakraborty, the Aviation Medicine specialist accompanying the team who has set-up a small 'medical centre' within the 'daily servicing section' for the ease of his patients. The IAF members arrived at Waddington in the thick of British monsoons after experiencing a simmering hot spell at Doha and Tanagra that led to respiratory problems for a few.
That the exercise is truly going on smoothly and on schedule is a result of the efforts of innumerable IAF air warriors at various levels. The IAF contingent has been presenting themselves as a well turned-out and disciplined outfit. "Surely our Air Warriors deserve to be kitted with the best, for they are representing India," said Wing Commander Shyam Sunder proudly, the Senior Logistics Officer at Air Force Station, Race Course, New Delhi before the team's departure from India. The Station is responsible for all the kitting of IAF contingents when going abroad on UN missions and other foreign assignments.
The following link continues the UK/Indian recent training theme. Nice photos of Indian / UK fighter aircraft flying in formation. I'm sure this will become a regular event particulary as Indian pilots will train in the UK on Hawk.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...e/ExerciseIndraDhanushWrapsUpAtWaddington.htm
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...e/ExerciseIndraDhanushWrapsUpAtWaddington.htm
the first batch of indian hawk pilots have completed their training in uk,the subsequent batches would be trained by these people in india,however there is a proposal to conduct a follow up of the current excercise(indradhanush) in india in the year 2009 subjected to the govt of india approval.