Nuclear Subs

J

Jade

New Member
Hi Guys,
Could someone pls tell me the difference between a Coastal Sub like the Scorpene Sub that France is building for India and Britains Nuclear Attack Sub the Astute ?

What other types of Subs are there in the nuclear arena ?


I hear the propulsion system for the Astute is unique - just how much ?

Any news on the India ATV ?

Thnx
 
Well, a coastal sub has a short endurance whereas a nuclear-powered sub can remain in the sea for long periods. The nuclear reactor can provide the energy for a long long submerged drive.
As for types of submarines, they are usually classified as SSKs, SSNs, and SSBNs. SSKs are diesel-electric submarines and have to surface to recharge their batteries by running their diesel engines. Coastal subs are all SSKs. SSNs are nuclear powered subs. Finally, SSBNs are nuclear powered subs that carry ballistic missiles.
 
There are two types of non-nuclear submarines. First is regular old diesel-electric. The next however is new and is called AIP. Air Independent Propulsion. In this form of propulsion, energy is stored in fuel cells like the german type 212 or in other methods like on Sweden's Gotland class. The German AIP submarines are said to be some of, if not the quietiest submarines in the world. They can stay submerged for over 2 weeks. That is about the best you can get for a non-nuclear submarine. As far as the Astute, it is designed to take on long range missions. American Nuclear submarines comparable to the Astute can stay submerged for 90 days at most. The Astute can probobly do this as well. The great thing about the Astute however is that its nuclear reactor doesn't need to be refuelled for 30 years, its entire service life. Usually nuclear reactors have to be refueled once every 15 years of a 30 service life. These refuels take a long time and are very costly. The Astute class can be compared to the Virginia class subs of the U.S. Both subs carry about 38 torpedoes and missiles. The are launced from vertical launch tubes. The Virginia class however has been designed to conduct littoral operations, or operations near the coast, as well as blue water missions and power projection. The Astute however is not designed for littoral operations. The Virginia, Astute and Seawolf classes are my favorite in the world. They are the quietest and deadliest subs out there. Yet they are very expensive with the Virginia and Seawolf classes costing $2 billion per sub.
 
Thnx guys.

They say the Astute has the best sonar in the world. It can hear stuff in New York while still anchored in England !!

Don't the Russians have good sonars ?

How would you rate the Scorpene ?

How far from coastal waters could the Scorpene go ?

Thnx
 
Jade said:
They say the Astute has the best sonar in the world. It can hear stuff in New York while still anchored in England !!
Click to expand...

I'm affraid that one is total BS. The USN is a full generation ahead of the rest of the world in sonar capabilities. Astutes may indeed have very capable sonars but the're not going to be better than the best the USN has.

Don't the Russians have good sonars ?
Click to expand...

The soviets allways suffered a technological deficit compared to the USN, IIRC the ASW tactics relied on active systems due to their lack of decent passive sysems. However due to the lack of funding for R&D in russia on SONAR's, both passive & active they have been stuck at 1990's level capability for the most part. So they lag behind for the most part.
 
Ozzy Blizzard is certainly right. The USN is certainly the best when it comes to sonar capabilities. The Astute may not be that far behind however due to the fact that America and the U.K. are very close allies and probobly share technology.
About the Scorpene. They are coming out with a AIP version of the submarine. But the German AIP sub, the type 212, will still be better. The Scorpene is built in joint venture by a Spanish and a famous French sub builder. The AIP version will be a good submarine. I don't think it will be that good however.
How far off shore can it go? As far as the operators want, but its strength is operations in shallow waters.
The German type 212 Rules:cool:
 
Ozzy Blizzard said:
I'm affraid that one is total BS.
Click to expand...

I will differ on this one. In sea, sound waves can travel incredibly long distances. In his book "High-Tech Warfare", author Robert Jackson quoted an American anti-submarine warfare (ASW) specialist: "The first time the Soviets put pedal to the metal on an Alpha-class boat, the noise travelled all the way to Bermuda. The Russian submarine was in the Barents Sea at the time, 4000 miles away."

I hope he wasnt joking ;)
 
Khairul Alam said:
I will differ on this one. In sea, sound waves can travel incredibly long distances. In his book "High-Tech Warfare", author Robert Jackson quoted an American anti-submarine warfare (ASW) specialist: "The first time the Soviets put pedal to the metal on an Alpha-class boat, the noise travelled all the way to Bermuda. The Russian submarine was in the Barents Sea at the time, 4000 miles away."

I hope he wasnt joking ;)
Click to expand...

I didnt mean that the astute didnt detect something happening across the atlantic was BS, i've heard simmilar stories. What i meant was the claim it had the best SONAR in the world was BS.
 
f-22fan12 said:
Ozzy Blizzard is certainly right. The USN is certainly the best when it comes to sonar capabilities.
Click to expand...
I'll believe you in that the USN has got some pretty advanced sonars. However, how could a Chinese nuclear sub (I think) come as close as a mile away from an American carrier, half a year ago or so?:confused:
 
zetruz said:
I'll believe you in that the USN has got some pretty advanced sonars. However, how could a Chinese nuclear sub (I think) come as close as a mile away from an American carrier, half a year ago or so?:confused:
Click to expand...

It was sitting there and the CBG drove over it, pluss they wern't on an ASW fotting i.e. escorts doing sprints & drifts, protective boey lines and Helo's out hunting ect ect..... In a shooting war or even a high threat environment i wouldnt give it a chance of getting as close as 30 miles.

In general SSK's are quieter than SSN's due to the steam and pump noises on nuke boats. The collins class SSK is widely reguarded as one of the best and quietest conventional SSK's in the world. Reportedly it achieved a kill on a CVN during exercises when the CBG was in ASW mode, and that wasnt easy by any means. PLAN SSN's on the other hand are reffered to by USN boat drivers as car sterio's because they're so noisey, so how hard is it going to be for them???


Plus i dont seee what that has to do with USN's SSN's sonar systems....
 
Once again Ozzy Blizard is right. The Chinese sub knew the U.S.N. would sail through the area. They submerged and went quiet. Then after the carrier passed a couple miles in front of them, they surfaced. They do this to brag about their "superior" submarines. Anyone could have done that. China's subs are not even comparable to the U.S.N.
 
I believe you. After all, it was a question.:D

Ozzy Blizzard said:
The collins class SSK is widely reguarded as one of the best and quietest conventional SSK's in the world. Reportedly it achieved a kill on a CVN during exercises when the CBG was in ASW mode, and that wasnt easy by any means.
Click to expand...
As did a Gotland. I love that story.:p:
 
Ozzy Blizzard said:
I'm affraid that one is total BS. The USN is a full generation ahead of the rest of the world in sonar capabilities. Astutes may indeed have very capable sonars but the're not going to be better than the best the USN has.



The soviets allways suffered a technological deficit compared to the USN, IIRC the ASW tactics relied on active systems due to their lack of decent passive sysems. However due to the lack of funding for R&D in russia on SONAR's, both passive & active they have been stuck at 1990's level capability for the most part. So they lag behind for the most part.
Click to expand...

ozzy,

is this another statement based around the 'america is best' theme or do we have some data to back it up?

for instance...why is an american sub sonar superior to the british astutes,when i presume that the astute is a newer design with later equipment fitted?
 
jaffo4011 said:
ozzy,

is this another statement based around the 'america is best' theme or do we have some data to back it up?

for instance...why is an american sub sonar superior to the british astutes,when i presume that the astute is a newer design with later equipment fitted?
Click to expand...

The Atute is a newer design. Correct. Yet it is only a few years newer than the Virginia class subs. And as I said before. The U.S. and U.K. are good allies/friends. There is no need for competition between these too great nations. I am sure they share alot of technology. But whent the newer Virginia's come out there sonar could be better that Astute's. But Overall, the two submarine classes have similiar technology in them.
 
jaffo4011 said:
ozzy,

is this another statement based around the 'america is best' theme or do we have some data to back it up?

for instance...why is an american sub sonar superior to the british astutes,when i presume that the astute is a newer design with later equipment fitted?
Click to expand...

And no, its not an "America is the best theme":rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top