Arab Air Forces

E

eaf-f16

New Member
Rich said:
And your clearly an idiot. The F-22 is no faster then any other fighter, and since the Foxbat couldn't super-cruise, explain this "performance gap"?



The radar of the Foxbat had a range of 55 miles.http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/mig25.html How does that translate to 300 kms? My benchmark is the 1976 MIG that Belenchko flew to Japan.http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mig-25.htm




I never said the F-4 was "superior". I said it could easily out-turn a Foxbat. And if the MIG-25 is so "superior" then why did the Arabs get slaughtered by the IAF in every air conflict they ever had?

You dont win wars by over-flying an enemy at mach 2.5. You win wars by destroying an enemies air force. A task the MIG-25 was clearly not up to, nor was it up to CAS. It was strictly a one dimensional airplane.
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Becuase the Arabs only used it when the F-15 came along which is infinitly better than the MiG-25. If they used it in Yom Kippur war they would have removed Israel.

Admin text deleted. learn the rules before posting again. you've just earnt yourself a one week ban
 
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S

SaudiArabian

New Member
i came over this sad news lately



Algerian military plane crashes

2007-06-13

An Algerian Mig-29 military plane belonging to the country's air force crashed Monday in Oran, western Algeria, the local press reported Tuesday.

Before the plane crashed, the pilot tried as much as possible to fly the plane away from inhabited areas, thus avoiding possible loss of human life, according to the Oran Daily, which added that the pilot himself escaped unhurt from the accident after ejecting successfully and on time.

The plane crashed in a wheat farm burning all the surrounding vegetation before the fire was finally brought under control by rescue teams, according to the same source.

The causes of the accident are not yet known.

People's Daily Online

:(
 
R

Rich

Member
Admin: Text deleted. You need to avoid getting personal. eaf-f16's comments were clearly beyond the pale and a clear blatant violation - but you haven't helped.
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My apologies to the group. From now on I will simply ignore, or put on ignore, someone who insults me as this guy did. I'll let the Mods deal with it.
 
Y

yess

New Member
at the end of the day Israel air force is still the best air force in middle east this is due to and they are not in order.
1. 24/7 full alert
2. better intelligence as proven in 6 day war.
3. better training
4. better aircraft/ Surveillance systems
5. better strategy
5. and full time american support with unlimited amo!lol:eek:nfloorl:

next RSA/UAE
hopefully every thing tilts towards the RSA and UAE's favor.
with the purchase of some 80 EF-2000 the RSA should have technological advantage over IAF new f-16s and F-35 but with only if RSA buys some anti stealth radars such as czech and russian radars.
and is it possible to data link anti stealth radar with other sours?
the only customers for new F-16 block 60 and if not better but equivalent to IAF new f-16.
and i dont get one thing.. why is UAE's F-16 cost higher then IAF purposed 100 F-35?? the UAE is buying only 80 at the cost of 6.5$ billion where as IAF 100 f-35 for 5 billion?:unknown

then comes the Palestine air force:D
 
G

Grand Danois

Entertainer
yess said:
we all know how some people can be treated unfairly by some one;)
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Here is the process. I edited two posts, one of which contained potential flame bait and a second with a patently obscene insult.

Expecting the posters to take the hint I didn't attach a warning to the edit, and notified the other mods to keep an eye on it.

Next, Rich posted the "idiot" post in response to eaf-f16's insult..

eaf-f16 then persisted in posting another post with an obscene insult, way beyond what is allowed.

Later GF skimmed the thread, being in transit in an airport, he only caught the obscene insult, which earned eaf-f16 the ban.

Later again, I read the thread and called attention to the "idiot" post. Before we came down with a decision, Rich posted his apology. This made us not to take further action on the topic.

Case closed and no further discussion on this issue will be tolerated.
 
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M

metro

New Member
Izzy1 said:
Some interesting developments in regards to the Syrian Air Force and potential Iranian acquisitions.


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/06/syria-buying-mig31s-mig35s-for-1-billion/index.php#more
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Yeah, I read something very similar on worldtribune.com

It's getting a little "scary," as I saw that MI-6 broke up a plot where an Iranian front company, operating in Britain, was actually able to buy weapons grade uranium from the "black market" in Russia. The article said that MI-6 foiled the plot before it was sent to the Sudan and then onto Iran. Craziness!
 
Y

yess

New Member
metro said:
Yeah, I read something very similar on worldtribune.com

It's getting a little "scary," as I saw that MI-6 broke up a plot where an Iranian front company, operating in Britain, was actually able to buy weapons grade uranium from the "black market" in Russia. The article said that MI-6 foiled the plot before it was sent to the Sudan and then onto Iran. Craziness!
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but lets stay to the air force topic rather then slowly drifting towards off topic.
 
I

Izzy1

Banned Member
In regards to Syria, they desperately need new fast jets - their last new-build fighters were Mig-29 Fulcrum As and Mig-29UBs delivered in 1987. Further Mig-29 procurements since then have been second-hand models after a potential deal for the Su-27 fell through due to lack of funds.
 
Y

yess

New Member
i would recommend middle estern countries to come up with a plan of like one country spends all of their defense budget on only air force while the other army and the 3rd one on navy! :nutkick
 
E

eaf-f16

New Member
yess said:
at the end of the day Israel air force is still the best air force in middle east this is due to and they are not in order.
1. 24/7 full alert
2. better intelligence as proven in 6 day war.
3. better training
4. better aircraft/ Surveillance systems
5. better strategy
5. and full time american support with unlimited amo!lol:eek:nfloorl:

next RSA/UAE
hopefully every thing tilts towards the RSA and UAE's favor.
with the purchase of some 80 EF-2000 the RSA should have technological advantage over IAF new f-16s and F-35 but with only if RSA buys some anti stealth radars such as czech and russian radars.
and is it possible to data link anti stealth radar with other sours?
the only customers for new F-16 block 60 and if not better but equivalent to IAF new f-16.
and i dont get one thing.. why is UAE's F-16 cost higher then IAF purposed 100 F-35?? the UAE is buying only 80 at the cost of 6.5$ billion where as IAF 100 f-35 for 5 billion?:unknown

then comes the Palestine air force:D
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UAE is second best? Out of the 20 something F-16 they received I think only 3 are piloted by Emeratis the rest Egyptian and Pakistani pilots. Again this is a case of good equipment but no staff to operate them and EVERY Mirage 2000-9 the UAE has is in STORAGE because they don't have enough pilots.

The rankings for Arab air forces is, in my opinion:

1.RSAF (if they have enough pilots to fly EVERYTHING they have if not then they switch places with number 2)

2.EAF

3.RJAF (small number of F-16's but all of which are manned wth Jordanians only)

4.UAE-AF (nothing compared to the first 2 AF's if they don't have ALL planes manned and with Emeratis ONLY!)

5.KAF (as above; good amount of F-18's; pilots shortage)
 
I

Izzy1

Banned Member
Just out of interest, why do they have to have pilots from their own nations? I'm sure a USAF F-16 fighter pilot can perform just as well in a Jordanian F-16 when on secondment. Indeed, dare I say it - if not better?

From what I have seen of the Block 60s, the UAEAF isn't exactly suffering with their foreign-sourced crews either. Do you have any information in regards to the Mirage storage?
 
C

contedicavour

New Member
Izzy1 said:
Some interesting developments in regards to the Syrian Air Force and potential Iranian acquisitions.


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/06/syria-buying-mig31s-mig35s-for-1-billion/index.php#more
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I don't understand what interest Syria could have in MIG31, sort of updated MIG25s which are useless for air to air combat with modern F15s and F16s. Besides I'm not even sure MIG31s carry AA12 BVR missiles. Without those, Amraam-C equipped fighters can easily shoot them down.
Why not just concentrate on MIG29SMT (I wasn't aware that modernized MIG29s were also called MIG35s by the way - unless the journalist was inaccurate ?)

cheers
 
E

eaf-f16

New Member
contedicavour said:
I don't understand what interest Syria could have in MIG31, sort of updated MIG25s which are useless for air to air combat with modern F15s and F16s. Besides I'm not even sure MIG31s carry AA12 BVR missiles. Without those, Amraam-C equipped fighters can easily shoot them down.
Why not just concentrate on MIG29SMT (I wasn't aware that modernized MIG29s were also called MIG35s by the way - unless the journalist was inaccurate ?)

cheers
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The journilist was inaccurate or just trying to draw peoples attention to the article. The syrians are buying the MiG-29M2 which is a highly advanced MiG-29 with full glass cockpit and other advancements like the HOTAS concept being fully realized and better range.

The MiG-35 is a MiG-29M2 with and AESA radar, two-seat cockpit configuration and All-Aspect TVC engines as well as an internal optical targeting system (OLS).
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
contedicavour said:
I don't understand what interest Syria could have in MIG31, sort of updated MIG25s which are useless for air to air combat with modern F15s and F16s. Besides I'm not even sure MIG31s carry AA12 BVR missiles. Without those, Amraam-C equipped fighters can easily shoot them down.
Why not just concentrate on MIG29SMT (I wasn't aware that modernized MIG29s were also called MIG35s by the way - unless the journalist was inaccurate ?)

cheers
Click to expand...
The original article was from the russian military journalist Pavel Felgenhauer

The strange story of MiG-31s for Syria
By Pavel Felgenhauer

Moscow's respected business daily Kommersant reported that Russia's arms-trading monopoly Rosoboronexport has begun to fulfill an arms deal it secretly signed with Syria this year to sell five MiG-31E jet fighters, considered among the best in the world, and an additional unspecified number of the newest MiG-29M/M2 fighter-bombers.

The paper reported the total price to be about US$1 billion. MiG-31s were produced at the Sokol aviation factory in Nizhniy



Novgorod from 1981-94 (some 500 planes overall). Since production has been terminated, Syria, according to Kommersant, will get the jets from the Russian Defense Ministry stockpile after a refurbishing at Sokol.

Kommersant suggested that Iran is partially or even fully covering the purchase bill, and that the jets may partially or fully end up as part of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force. Commenting on the Kommersant report, Foreign Ministry spokesman Mikhail Kamiynin last week told reporters, "All Russian arms deals comply with international law and Russia's obligations under international treaties and UN Security Council resolutions."

This vague statement was widely taken as indirect conformation of the Kommersant story, but it later turned out not to be the case. By last Tuesday evening, Rosoboronexport head Sergei Chemizov, speaking in Paris at Le Bourget Air Show, had denied the existence of any jet fighter deal with Syria.

This is not the first time Kommersant has published a page 1 "scoop" on breaking arms-trade news that later turned out to be not fully accurate. Last month it reported that Libya and Russia were close to finalizing a $2.2 billion arms deal. Neither Moscow nor Tripoli confirmed the report.

This month Kommersant reported that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez might buy nine Russian submarines, reportedly worth $2 billion, when he visits Moscow in June to meet President Vladimir Putin. This deal seemed fishy from the start, since it clearly exceeded the present capacity of Russian shipbuilders to make new subs and the Venezuelan navy's capacity to run so many new ships.

Kommersant reported that Venezuela had chosen Russian subs over others offered by Germany and France, which also sounded odd, because Russian conventional attack subs, including the latest models, are outdated and significantly inferior to German and French ones. Venezuelan Defense Minister Raul Isaias Baduel promptly denied that his government was planning to buy submarines from Russia.

Kommersant claims the MiG-29M/M2 is more or less the same jet Russia is peddling to India as the MiG-35. The MiG-35 is still only a flying prototype - not a real fighter - and the Russian Air Force does not have any such planes. If India chooses a European or US fighter instead, the MiG-35 as well as the MiG-29M/M2 may never enter serial production.

The MiG-31, in turn, is a real fighting jet. Russia today has some 280 MiG-31s. Before delivering the aircraft to buyers, arms traders and producers first remove secret Russian military equipment. Then the jets are repainted and sold as "modernized" for high prices, creating sky-high profits that do not seem to ever reach state coffers.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Moscow has been trying to sell the MiG-31. The plane has been displayed at air shows, but no customers have come forward. The MiG-31 is a highly specialized jet - not a fighter per se, but an interceptor specifically designed to kill long-range US cruise missiles. The MiG-31 is a bulky two-seater that can carry up to eight air-to-air guided missiles with a range of up to 120 kilometers.

The MiG-31 can fly supersonic near the Earth's surface as well as high up. It is a purely defensive fighter, designed to be used over friendly territory to defend against massive air assaults. The MiG-31 has sophisticated and powerful radar that can track 24 different targets simultaneously and exchange information with other MiG-31s and ground control centers.

Any country that is seriously preparing to meet the US military on the battlefield, as Iran seems to be, would want to have such a jet to meet an air assault complemented with hundreds or thousands of cruise missiles, as happened in 1999 in Yugoslavia and in 1991 and 2003 in Iraq. Syria could also want several such jets, if Washington were to decide to attack, say, terrorist-connected targets on its territory. The MiG-31 deal with Syria, as reported by Kommersant, seems more plausible than stories about, say, nine subs for Venezuela.

Chemizov has denied the MiG-31 contract, but Kamiynin was deliberately noncommittal. Kommersant may have received confidential information about the possible deal and the leak could have been deliberate. The arms-trade stories Kommersant has been printing may be tests of Western (US) reactions, to see what would happen if imaginary arms contracts suddenly turned out to be real.

These leaks also may be a signal to the West to understand what woe to expect if the Russo-US summit this coming weekend in Maine goes awry.

*ttp://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IF26Ak05.html
 
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T

T-95

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #80
Egypt stopped evaluating the MiG-29 in May and is in the process of negotiating a contract with the Russians and I think the Saudis signed the contract for the British front line fighter ,the Typhoon, at the Paris Air Show. Has the US got any new contracts from Arab countries that are as big as the Russian and British deals or are they just not concerned about arms deals with ME's countries anymore? Dose this mean a policy change from both sides or am I just reading too much in this?
 
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