French authorize troops to shoot down threatening Israeli planes

[Stryker001]

The French don't like to be messed with, its just their way of reminding Israel they are there and more importantly Hizbollah not to engage them, or come to close. Its a psychological operation on the part of the IDF, to target Hizbollah and their supporters.

The IDF gets plenty of practise in anyhow.

Rockets from Gaza hit school and synagogue in Sderot - IDF Spokesman
5/18/2007 3:22:20 PM
Shalom,

**Rockets from Gaza hit school and synagogue in Sderot - IDF Spokesman


====================================================================
Information Department, Israel Foreign Ministry - Jerusalem
Website: http://www.mfa.gov.il
E-mail: [email protected]
====================================================================
18 May 2007

Rockets from Gaza hit school and synagogue in Sderot (Communicated by the IDF Spokesman)

Close to 30 Kassam rockets were launched from the Gaza Strip into Israel in the past 24 hours, two of which hit a school and a synagogue in Sderot.

More than 90 Kassam rockets were launched into Israel since Tuesday.

Close to 400 rockets were launched since the November ceasefire.

The IDF targeted a rocket launching cell immediately after launching rockets into Israel from the northern Gaza Strip, this morning. Additionally, the IDF carried out during the night an aerial attack against a structure near the Karni crossing in the northern Gaza Strip, used as a meeting place and headquarters for Hamas terrorists and from which terrorist activity against Israeli citizens was planned. The targeted structure was suspected of covering a tunnel used by the terror organizations, which continuously plan attacks against the Karni and other crossings.

May 17, 2007

Summary of events in the Gaza Strip
(Communicated by the IDF Spokesman)

Following continuous launchings of rockets into Israel and other terrorist activities executed by Hamas and other terror organizations, the IDF carried out during the day four aerial attacks against terrorists in Gaza City, in the northern Gaza Strip:

A Hamas terrorist headquarters
A vehicle carrying a Hamas terrorist cell responsible for manufacturing and delivering weaponry A structure used by Hamas terrorists A Palestinian terrorist, immediately after launching rockets into Israel Additionally, the IDF carried out an aerial attack against a rocket launching cell after it fired rockets from the southern Gaza Strip into the western Negev.

More than 80 Kassam rockets were launched from the Gaza Strip into Israel over the past three days.

The IDF will continue to operate against the terror organizations in order to ensure the security and safety of all the citizens of Israel.

 

[metro]

The whole basis for this argument is the fact that the Lebanese-Syrian border was drawn up without regard to land ownership. The Shebaa farms area is land which was associated with the village of Shebaa, & mostly owned & farmed by people who lived in Shebaa. Until 1967, nobody cared much about the border: the Lebanese villagers continued to work their land whichever side of the border it was, & neither Syria nor Lebanon was interested in tidying up a minor anomaly which caused nobody much inconvenience. The Lebanese only got disgruntled when Israel occupied up to the official Syrian border, & cut off the villagers from their farmland. The Syrians later decided that it would be convenient to pretend the land was part of Lebanon - but I found maps on Syrian government websites last year still showing it as in Syria.

I think, you agree (i.e. reading our last sentence, contracits any Lebanese/Hizbollah claim), right?

We're dealing with recognized internatinal boarders and soverignty. Israel completely complied with the UN resolution. The claim that Shebaa is Lebanese territory, as we have both noted, is false and has been rejected by the UN.

Israel is not occupying Lebanon anymore. Therefore, Hizbollah has no case to exist or be a, "resistance force." The Lebanese Gov't cannot maintain an "off the books" army, which conducts military operations, and believe that since Hizbollah isn't the Lebanese military, any/all of Lebanon is immune to a response.

As an country, Lebanon cannot have it both ways.

1.5 billion maximum.

Thanks, I was too tired to look up the latest numbers.

 

[Rich]

There are Zionist groups within the Jewish community in Israel that wishes to destroy the Palestinian population, and that also wish to get rid of all Muslims currently present in the region. I do not hold them in any higher regard than their Muslim fanatical counterparts, regardless of statments made as well as not made by either group.

Really? Who are they?

Agreed. Its the only constructive way to structure any peace settlement. Simply exileing them will not help the problem, and will basicaly undermine any peace deal that is struck. In a conflict like this the only constuctive way to achieve some sort of an end is to talk, even with terrorists.

Except Hamas doesn't want any "peace deal" with the Israelis. They simply want to annihilate Israel and its people. The Israelis understand terror better then we do in the west and they know these people cant be negotiated with. They have consistently used times of calm to strengthen themselves which is why Koffi's latest little troupe is getting buzzed by the IAF.

 

[KGB]

Except Hamas doesn't want any "peace deal" with the Israelis. They simply want to annihilate Israel and its people. The Israelis understand terror better then we do in the west and they know these people cant be negotiated with. They have consistently used times of calm to strengthen themselves which is why Koffi's latest little troupe is getting buzzed by the IAF.

Exactly what do you mean by that last statement?

 

[swerve]

I think, you agree (i.e. reading our last sentence, contracits any Lebanese/Hizbollah claim), right?...

Yes. If Syria & Lebanon decided to redraw their border, to allow the landowners of Shebaa access to their fields in Syria, Israel would have an interesting situation to deal with. But since Syria has not ceded the land to Lebanon, nor indicated in any way except some vague verbal statements that it considers the previous agreement on the border to be invalid (which would open up a Pandoras box of other issues), the whole thing is crap.

I do feel sorry for those Shebaa farmers, though.

 

[contedicavour]

The situation is getting even messier in Lebanon since a terrorist outfit is battling with regular Lebanese troops in the northern city of Tripoli. That was one of the rare peaceful areas well to the north of Beyrouth.
We (Italians, French and other UNIFIL countries) don't have enough manpower to patrol north of Beyrouth as well ! The regular Lebanese army has better win that battle on its own...
Btw that's where the IAF would be useful, in supporting the Lebanese regular army which lacks air force assets. Much more useful than bombing chaps in Gaza as a retaliation to the latest Palestinian retaliation

cheers

 

[merocaine]

Really? Who are they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism

if you do a little digging on those guys....

 

[Stryker001]

Mod edit:

What?

Make sense if you wish to keep posting.

AD.

 

[Stryker001]

Mod edit:

Edited due to off topic rubbish.

AD.

 

[metro]

The situation is getting even messier in Lebanon since a terrorist outfit is battling with regular Lebanese troops in the northern city of Tripoli. That was one of the rare peaceful areas well to the north of Beyrouth.
We (Italians, French and other UNIFIL countries) don't have enough manpower to patrol north of Beyrouth as well ! The regular Lebanese army has better win that battle on its own...
Btw that's where the IAF would be useful, in supporting the Lebanese regular army which lacks air force assets. Much more useful than bombing chaps in Gaza as a retaliation to the latest Palestinian retaliation

cheers

IMO, the sitation in Lebanon has the potential to become very big mess, not because the Lebanese Military is actually acting, but becase of the usual internal/external influences (i.e. Hizbollah, Syria, Iran, Russia, "Al-Queda").
Syria/Hizbollah saying they'll ignore the Harri "investigation/trial," means that they'll increse problems "elsewere."

This isn't an attack on UNIFIL's men/women on the ground, they are sitting in a strategic area in which they are being used as "Human Shields," while Hizbollah re-arms. The UN higher-ups never intended on having this new UNIFIL force "Disarm Militas" or stoppig trucks from crossing the Syrian and Lebanese boarder. All this new force has done is enabled Hizbollah to not only re-arm but also bring in better weapons. It's caused the Israelis to have to conduct it's own recon. as Israelis are the people those weapons are going to be used on. This inabilty for UNIFIL to carry out a mission, has caused more friction between UNIFIL and Israel, rather than friction between UNIFIL and Hizbolla, Sryia, and the Lebanese troops who have all pretended that either, "We're not doing anything wrong" or "We're ot going to do anything." Again, this is NOT THE FAULT OF UNIFIL'S SOLDIERS on the grond, of the post Lebanon war, it is very much the fault of Kofi's-UN (he's wiped his ands clear now) and some "General's" who won't allow UNIFIL to do anything let alone carry out a UN resolution.

As for the IAF getting involved in "Internal Lebanese fighting," that would be the worse thing possible. These are Palestinian camps, just imagine imagine either the "Lebanese Military Asking dor IAF help." There's "Hizbollah's and other's 'Proof'" that the Lebanese Gov't is, "In Bed" with the Isrealis. Then you have the issue of Israel (IAF) not even going after Hizbollah, but trying to "Kill Palestinians wherever they are." It's a no win position for the IAF. Using "unmarked IAF" drones to direct fire for the Lebanese troops, isn't a bad idea.

As for Israel retaliating for literally daily barages of Kassams hitting towns like Sedrot, I'm not sure what people expectt Israel to do. They've had to evacuate an entire town. Israel's lack of response for so long only encouraged larger numbers of Kassam launches. Israel re-enstated its "right" to go after Hamas leaders. If one remebers from times before, Hamas has always talked vey tough, but whenever Hamas wants to agree to a Peace Deal (i.e. ceace fire), what is always the only/#1 condition they want? "If Israel will will stop targeing Hamas' leadership we're willig to 'support a cease fire'" In other words, what is the most effective strategy in fighting Hama? Making Hamas' leadership play constant defense, and keep them under constant and relentless pressure (play offense against them). These plea's by Hamas' leasership not to target them, expose Hamas, and their learders' rhetoric as a joke to their own people (do what I say, not as I do). Hamas' leadership doesn't seem to practice what they preach. They prefer to live, while they promote death to their population from using "Mickey Mouse" to influence children to the "Martyr;" The Martyr get's everything denied by strict Islam (i.e. Hamas) during life, to all things Islam has denied in life exists for the "Martyr" in Paradise (i.e. alcohol, drugs, young virgins [grils and boys], any material possesions, endless food, and on and on..."

This should be the example, keep leaders of all "Terrorist Countries/Groups/Leaders of the Insurgencies in Iraq" under constant pressure and don't give them a minute where they aren't looking over their shoulder or feel confortable. This makes it much more difficult for them to "play intelligent offense" and can even lead to such parinoia and distrss, that the best option becomes self-preservation which can be followed by tough negotiations (as long as the US and EU is serious about fully doing that).

JMHO
Peace!

 

[radiosilence]

Again, this is NOT THE FAULT OF UNIFIL'S SOLDIERS on the grond, of the post Lebanon war, it is very much the fault of Kofi's-UN (he's wiped his ands clear now) and some "General's" who won't allow UNIFIL to do anything let alone carry out a UN resolution.

UN resolution 1701 was adopted UNANIMOUSLY. The text in the resolution was negotiated by our Govt. and the French. Don't give Kofi Annan so much credit. He didn't have that much "pull" in the security council as some might think.

 

[metro]

UN resolution 1701 was adopted UNANIMOUSLY. The text in the resolution was negotiated by our Govt. and the French. Don't give Kofi Annan so much credit. He didn't have that much "pull" in the security council as some might think.

Sorry! I was being more sarcastic about Kofi (is starements during and after the war), he was so ineffective i almost everything he did, Kofi's "Blessing" for a UN operation, was tantamont to saying "Show the appearence of action, while a the mission is 'inaction'." Kofi did't have a "vote" n the security council, but he made MANY statements about the "recklessess of 'some' security council members." He had the ability to undermine any "tough resolutions." He also could/did pass "info along to whoever" about the negotians over draft resolutions. IMO, Kofi Anna doesn't have a legacy that many hold i high esteem.

RE: 1701.
I'm not sure who you mean by "our gov't" (I just don't know where you're from). EDIT: My Bad, I see you're American!
If you mean the US and France, both countries (the US more than France) wanted Hizbollah gone. Hizbollah's existance is based upon a resitsance group formed to strictly resist the Israeli occupation of Lebanon. According to the UN (even Kofi verified it) in 2000 Israel completely withdrew from Lebanon and compled with UN Resolution 425. Hizbollah has no right to exist... unless they're resisting a true democratic Lebonese gov't.

However, as for the war, as usual, there was a ruuning clock on any war that involves Israel. While the international community was up in arms over a war between Israel & Hizbollah (why does Hizbollah remain?), there is nothing but support for The Lebanese Army shelling and destroying "Camps" of thousands of "innocent Palestinians" while there are one 100-200 "Al-Queda" inside. Forget that the Lebanese army can now fight (unlike what was written in the 1701 and they were supposed to do--Disarm Militias).

But take the same situation in Gaza/Israel. How much support would Israel get for countiuely shelling all of Gaza until Hamas leaves--even though there are only "innocent civillias" in Gaza. The daily Kassam vollies into a coutry are an enigma.

Again, the "running clock," forced Israel to accept an end to the war and give in to an open joke which is, UNIFIL (again, I'm not critisizing the troops, it's their higher-ups) and the Lebanese army will: make sure Hizbollah won't re-arm, eliminate/disaerm militias, get Israeli kidnapped soldiers returned, etc... German was supposed to send its Navy to make sure arms weren't smuggled by sea--however the behind the doors agreement between Germany and Lebanon, that Germany would not get within five miles of the Lebanese coast without prior permission and consent from the Lebanese.

Despite this and other crazyness, you're right, UN resolution 1701 was adopted UNANIMOUSLY! I wonder who the UNANIMOUS countries were trying to protect? And 1701, like most UN resolutions is a UNANIMOUS failure!
It's too bad that "Tough Sanctions" against Iran can't, likewise, be adopted UNANIMOUSLY! IMO, This speake to the intentions of the international commumity.

But I do hope the US and French, can bring along others and others to have a tough backbone regarding Hariri murder, and the UN can adopt an UNANIMOUS conclusion!

BTW, I'm not "mocking" your use of "UNANAMOUSLY" at all. I actually think it's a good example of what the UN will and won't do.

PEACE

 

[Aussie Digger]

No wonder we are losing the war on psychological operations. My QLD police friend just go buy a 'blue-arm band' to show support for the alleged manslaughters Chris Hurley. Leave matters such as Hamas, Fatah and the Hizbollah to the intelligence services. QLD my friend is not the Middle East, although Chris Hurley could seek employment سجن أبو غريب; that’s Abu Grab for all of you no abla.

Edit: Maybe my freind the QPS should be working for the Islamists re: Shari law…freedom of speech.

What exactly has Snr Sgt Chris HURLEY got to do with this thread?

Also, I guess you're not a big believer in the old, "innocent until proven guilty" mantra either eh?

Fact is there has been an abuse of the political process and the Criminal Justice System here in Queensland in order TO charge S/Sgt HURLEY. Neither the Queensland Solicitor-General, the Crime and Misconduct Commission OR the Office of the DPP thought HURLEY should be charged with ANYTHING.

P.S. I've got a Blue armband too...

Now, stick to the topic.

 

[Stryker001]

Mod edit:

Final warning Stryker001.

Get back on topic or face a banning.

AD.

 

[Stryker001]

Mod edit:

Fair enough. Have it your way.

AD

 

[radiosilence]

Despite this and other crazyness, you're right, UN resolution 1701 was adopted UNANIMOUSLY! I wonder who the UNANIMOUS countries were trying to protect?

The civilians on both sides.

And 1701, like most UN resolutions is a UNANIMOUS failure!

I think both sides were exhaustive fighting each other with neither side achieving their stated goal. UN Resolution 1701 was a perfect way to ending the fighting and saving face for both sides. I don't think it is realistic to think that Hezbollah was going to be disarm by UN Resolution 1701.

 

[gf0012-aust]

This thread is parked until further notice.

Some people need to make an effort to understand the basic principles of mature debate.