China behaves as if the ‘Exclusive Economic Zone’ (200 miles) was the ‘Contiguous Zone’ (24 miles) and is attempting to establish the right to prohibit passage and operation of military vessels in that area, which is prohibited by international law. China’s Exclusive Economic Zone includes over half of the Yellow Sea. The vessels and aircraft in question never got within 24 miles of the Chinese coast, never mind 12 miles.
Why is China against the US-South Korean joint military exercise?
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marioasoler
New Member
He is not comparing. He is only stating that Russia brought the best carrier and two bombers? to land in Venezuela, scorted by NATO. Also the bombers landed in Cuba. USA did not make so much of a big deal because we were watching every songle move.
No we wouldnt be nice about it but we would be civil.
Also Colombia doesnt plan on invading Venezuela. It hasnt stationed hundreds of thousands of troopes along its boarder. It hasnt sunk a Ven. ship. And they arent threatening to use nukes on the entire world.
I think the difference isnt so much China but North Korea. I wouldnt trust the Yellow sea to be safe either.
marioasoler
New Member
Well said!
But it is Venezuela`s president who kept insisting on invading Colombia. Colombia has thousands of troops ready near the borders, but it is because of their Guerilla problem in which they have lived with for over 20 years.
The two aren't on the verge of war, but there is a conflict of sorts going on, with allegations of FARC support.
Hugo Chávez the President of Venezuela and aspiring dictator is just street rat crazy and is destorying his country like so many egomaniacs have before just like him. The US dosn't need to do anything but let him continue to destory his country. But pity the poor Venezuelan's.
The Venezuelans voted in a opposition majority in the last election, so he must be running low on popular support. In responce he followed the example of the US Democrat Party and had his rubber stamp lame duck legislature pass laws giving him the ability to rule by decree.
Now he is an actual dictator and democracy no longer exists in Venezuela.
We are getting off topic. Sorry that I started it. China is a far moreImportant subject. But as for popularity is concerned, no matter what person or idea we are talking about, if opposition voices are suppressed, I am suspicious if the popularity goes very deep.
Now back on subject now that the naval exercises are all over and done with and nobody got killed or anything what are their lasting effects?
I am to blame to sorry
But back on topic!
Yea i think this was a major wakeup call to many south Koreans that the north korean government isnt acting sanely. I believe the next 5-10 years could be the rockiest in the nations recent history.
They are taking some preporations the fortress islands the harsher stance among other things.
What is now happening inside either South or North Korea’s internal politics, are at this point, beyond my understanding but there is a development I think that can have long rang consequences if its comes true. We all know about the tragic history of Japanese militarism and how that history still poisons Japan’s relations will most of its neighbors in its part of the world.I am to blame to sorry
But back on topic!
Yea i think this was a major wakeup call to many south Koreans that the north korean government isnt acting sanely. I believe the next 5-10 years could be the rockiest in the nations recent history.
They are taking some preporations the fortress islands the harsher stance among other things.
It would serve no purpose to list the atrocities that were committed due to that Militarism. A Militarism that was a deadly combination of the historical feudal Samaria war culture added to it the more efficient western kind, taking the worst of both and making it into a soulless killing machine. In the highly regarded book of which I recommend for anyone trying to understand Japan’s post war transformation, “Embracing Defeat” by John W. Dower, I learned how the Japanese interpreted their defeat in such a way so as to believe that they were the victims of that militarism, which in one since they were, and how that somehow exempts them from any responsibility as a nation, for what their government did to other people. That is why they refuse to acknowledge their countries past atrocities and thus leaves an open wound that had not yet healed even after fifty years, with the other victims of that same militarism.
The Japanese are no longer the same people that once set out to “Give back Asia to the Asians”. But there is the slightest hint that maybe Japan and South Korea might realized they might need each other more than they can afford to maintain their mutual distain. There have been some small indications that they are at least exploring the possibility. Japan is in long term trouble. And I am not talking about it current economic problems. Their population is not only growing older at a very fast rate, their total population is beginning to decline and they desperately need friends closer to home than just far off America.
One of the consequence of both North Korea’s recent attacks upon the South and the island incident between Japan and China has been the realization that things are changing very fast in North Asia and not necessary for the betterment for ether South Korea or Japan.
Question, Can these historically hostile entities find a path where they can trust and support each other? And if so what changes would each have to make for that to happen? Purely military cooperation is not in the long term a suitable based by its self to insure trust.
We all know that if Japan were to openly reevaluate its history that, that act alone would improve its standing with all of its neighbors including the biggest one, China but they so far seen to be in continual denial.
MilitaryMatters
New Member
China's grand strategy is focused intently on its periphery and the control it has over its periphery. This is why it has ongoing disputes with so many states in the Yellow Sea region including Japan and why it is sensitive about the US 'encroaching'/holding exercises with South Korea (and Japan with the Keen Sword drills)
It is also why China is so intent on pushing into Central Asia (not just for energy reasons) so as to increase its political control over its Western frontier.
It is also why China is so intent on pushing into Central Asia (not just for energy reasons) so as to increase its political control over its Western frontier.
If that is true, that is not much of a “grand strategy”. What you are describing are tactics not goals. More like saying “Look at me see how big I am now!” and not what the Chines hope to finally achieve with their new found power and abilities and what then they want to change about the world that they live in. I think we can all agree that they want to change something. That is the big question. The second question is then what are they willing to do to get the changes they want? The answers to those two questions are not know, perhaps even by the Chinese themselves. We will see.
But on a positive note. The Chinese and the country of Tajikistan have come to final and satisfactory agreement on their land border. That is a good sign.
Sampanviking
Banned Member
What makes you think that?
They have settled between them a 130 year old dispute, with 95% of the disputed territory staying with the Tajiks. Both are members of the SCO an organisation which is supposed to help facilitate such solutions and I would bet good money that the land ceeded to China was in such a Geographical position that it made better sense to have administered from the Chinese side (its all very high mountains afterall).
In return, it appears that the Tajiks are getting some very generous investment to help develop their oil and gas industries and of course general connecting infrastructure and energy transit routes.
Not a bad deal for a mountainside!
Beatmaster
New Member
Well the whole situation in asia is a timebomb.
One hand you got the chinese powerhouse with its regional intrest and its numerical superioir army, and on the otherhand you got Taiwan, S-Korea, Japan backed by the US wich provides support and a technological superiour force.
China does not have acces to direct means of stopping the US led coalition of invading their intrests.
However China does have a guine reason to protest, as a war with north korea will further increase tentions between the regional rivals.
This will have a direct impact to the chinese economic system and will result in regional unstable situation.
It has been said that N-Korea is in-fact a treath to the US and its national security and the direct region itself, however china did manage to pressure both NK and SK to stay between the "game" rules for some years now.
It has been said that China would not allow a NK vs SK or vice versa conflict as the region will be filled with millions of hungry north koreans that will try to make a run for it to avoid being a victim of the war itself.
My point is the US led coalition does have Guine reasons to prepare and take actions to avoid a war, on the other hand the chinese have their own intrests wich are equally guine to the US led coaltion.
The question is who of the 2 parties is having the biggest intrests?
Is it the US led coalition because the fear of a war and nucliare conflict?
And dominance of the regional situation?
Or is it china wich has huge economical intrests and has a good reason to avoid war as it struggles to maintain good relations with taiwan, japan as they are being considered as arch rivals.
Eventually China have to pick a side and eventually China will have to make a stand and face their traditions to protect their intrests by any means possible, wich indirect will increase pressure to the US led coaltion to do it the right way.
Its not in china's intrest to start a war as the results will not be in favor of the chino relations and regional stability/future.
On the otherhand it will not be in china's intrests to just walk away and let it happen.
The US does have the means and the power to change the whole situation as its economical and military strenght does support a large scale conflict, however the US does have to understand that this is not US main land but this is a region where the chinese flag is shining.
So its in the US best intrests to respect chino relations and integrity.
China will give US enough play room to do what it has to do to honor agreements made with Taiwan, Japan and SK however the moment that US violates Chines direct intrest and integrity then this is a whole differend balgame as china will defend this at all costs and by any means, as its own survival is at steak here.
So IMO the US should be warned that a spark of fire in the wrong place can ignite a fire they cannot control even with their technological superiority, as this is not russia's backyard but the direct heart of the chinese nation, leadership, centrum of power and economic system wich is china build upon.
So i do understand why china is watching US movements with hawk eyes as they perfectly understand what the risks are when this goes bogus.
The Chinses have every intention to avoid this but so is the US.
And this is IMO one of the main problems that both sides will have to face and secure.
Other than that both will have to give in and both have to be prepared to share the burdon of securing the regions involved in this situation wich aint a easy job as both have huge intrests both economical and military.
One hand you got the chinese powerhouse with its regional intrest and its numerical superioir army, and on the otherhand you got Taiwan, S-Korea, Japan backed by the US wich provides support and a technological superiour force.
China does not have acces to direct means of stopping the US led coalition of invading their intrests.
However China does have a guine reason to protest, as a war with north korea will further increase tentions between the regional rivals.
This will have a direct impact to the chinese economic system and will result in regional unstable situation.
It has been said that N-Korea is in-fact a treath to the US and its national security and the direct region itself, however china did manage to pressure both NK and SK to stay between the "game" rules for some years now.
It has been said that China would not allow a NK vs SK or vice versa conflict as the region will be filled with millions of hungry north koreans that will try to make a run for it to avoid being a victim of the war itself.
My point is the US led coalition does have Guine reasons to prepare and take actions to avoid a war, on the other hand the chinese have their own intrests wich are equally guine to the US led coaltion.
The question is who of the 2 parties is having the biggest intrests?
Is it the US led coalition because the fear of a war and nucliare conflict?
And dominance of the regional situation?
Or is it china wich has huge economical intrests and has a good reason to avoid war as it struggles to maintain good relations with taiwan, japan as they are being considered as arch rivals.
Eventually China have to pick a side and eventually China will have to make a stand and face their traditions to protect their intrests by any means possible, wich indirect will increase pressure to the US led coaltion to do it the right way.
Its not in china's intrest to start a war as the results will not be in favor of the chino relations and regional stability/future.
On the otherhand it will not be in china's intrests to just walk away and let it happen.
The US does have the means and the power to change the whole situation as its economical and military strenght does support a large scale conflict, however the US does have to understand that this is not US main land but this is a region where the chinese flag is shining.
So its in the US best intrests to respect chino relations and integrity.
China will give US enough play room to do what it has to do to honor agreements made with Taiwan, Japan and SK however the moment that US violates Chines direct intrest and integrity then this is a whole differend balgame as china will defend this at all costs and by any means, as its own survival is at steak here.
So IMO the US should be warned that a spark of fire in the wrong place can ignite a fire they cannot control even with their technological superiority, as this is not russia's backyard but the direct heart of the chinese nation, leadership, centrum of power and economic system wich is china build upon.
So i do understand why china is watching US movements with hawk eyes as they perfectly understand what the risks are when this goes bogus.
The Chinses have every intention to avoid this but so is the US.
And this is IMO one of the main problems that both sides will have to face and secure.
Other than that both will have to give in and both have to be prepared to share the burdon of securing the regions involved in this situation wich aint a easy job as both have huge intrests both economical and military.
Beatmaster
New Member
I forgot to mention:
So longstory short, i personally believe that this is the biggest and most important goal & challenge that both sides have to overcome, as the end result will affect everything worldwide and may even change the way how we view asia as it is today, as asia hase become the worlds second biggest center of economic's.
Remember the twin tower collapse? what huge economic result that did have worldwide?
Imagine what would happen if the challenge & mission goals in asia would fail.
You do not have to be einstein to see that the effects of this will swoop the economic world like a earthquake.
So eventually this will become a worldwide issue as: China, Japan, Taiwan and other regional economic centers are in close proximity of eachother.
The US and EU are being seen as the biggest economic centers of the world specially the US, but Japan is the second biggest economy followed up by taiwan, china.
So mistakes will have direct results worldwide.
So longstory short, i personally believe that this is the biggest and most important goal & challenge that both sides have to overcome, as the end result will affect everything worldwide and may even change the way how we view asia as it is today, as asia hase become the worlds second biggest center of economic's.
Remember the twin tower collapse? what huge economic result that did have worldwide?
Imagine what would happen if the challenge & mission goals in asia would fail.
You do not have to be einstein to see that the effects of this will swoop the economic world like a earthquake.
So eventually this will become a worldwide issue as: China, Japan, Taiwan and other regional economic centers are in close proximity of eachother.
The US and EU are being seen as the biggest economic centers of the world specially the US, but Japan is the second biggest economy followed up by taiwan, china.
So mistakes will have direct results worldwide.
Thats one way to look at it but there is also.
The US built our interstate system to help us better move tanks, trucks and other military equipment around the nation in case of attack.
Also China is Heavily invested in oil and fossil fuels. They MUST have them if they ever got into a situation where they might face sanctions or durring a time of war. They would need them most of all and with the Tajiks now possessing a large reserve and with siberia and all its reserves to the north they would make it i believe.
So while it might be good for the Tajiks its also a move that is very beneficial for China.
Sampanviking
Banned Member
Well of course its to their benefit, why would they agree to something now to their detriment after holding out for 130 year,s most of which have been much darker for them than the situation today?
The coming story for Asia is of ever closer economic Integration, probably along lines not dissimilar to that of the EU. So sure increased infrastructure means the ability to move hard power, but it also means building something worth defending and of value to all the parties involved.
Ultimately though I think "defence" is not a significant factor in these developments and viewing them through that particular prism in exclusion to all others is deceptive and unwise.
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