When it comes to building structures then I will have to give Hesh a big thumbs up over Heat projectiles even though they are both filled with silly putty. (Plastic explosives)
who can kill a modern Main Battle Tank (MBT)?
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That is without any question. HEAT is generally rather weak performer both as anti-infantry and anti-structure. I thought more about HE and Thermobaric rounds.
Thanks Eckherl I look forward to your PM and you can have confidence in knowing I will not scrutinise the document or publicly release it.
Could we see HESH on new guided artillery rounds? Or at least rockets that have a top down attack function? I understand the top armour of most tanks is comparable to the side armour of the vehicle. HESH is very interesting indeed it seems to be the most capable multipurpose round that you can get.
Could we see HESH on new guided artillery rounds? Or at least rockets that have a top down attack function? I understand the top armour of most tanks is comparable to the side armour of the vehicle. HESH is very interesting indeed it seems to be the most capable multipurpose round that you can get.
The British actually designed a ATGM called Malkara in the late 60`s so the the technology has been with us for quite some time now.
In some tank designs the armor is actually thinner on the top portion of a tank thus the reason why top attack munitions offers the best choice for target destruction, the flatness of the top surface area on tank turrets and and hulls also play a major factor in this also, its kinda hard to place angled armor in this area of a tank.
PDF report of CR2 blue on blue
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C2384518-7EBA-4CFF-B127-E87871E41B51/0/boi_challenger2_25mar03.pdf
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C2384518-7EBA-4CFF-B127-E87871E41B51/0/boi_challenger2_25mar03.pdf
This is not the documented report that I have seen, by basing the information provided in this (official) report it is more than likely where the information that I recieved came from but was pretty much condensed down to 20 pages and slides that was used as a power point presentation for training purposes. Thanks for sharing.
@Lobbie
I will still need to get permission before I can send out the information that I have to ensure that I am not going to be committing a big no no. what V4.SKUNK sent is actually a official documented investigation with some sensitive information blacked out.
155mm HE rounds, when hit atop, obliterate tanks anyway. No point making it weaker by going HESH. But for smaller calibers HESH might be attractive as multi-purpose round in cases where it is impossible to reload more specialized round - i.e. may be for small UCAVs.
For ATGM's it have zero sense - top attack or not. HEAT is far, far superior and much more reliabler here.
While I agree with most of your post, the technology is most surely there to achieve a design with either a artillery or ATGM munition, with some of the advancements in explosive compounds this could be a devastating round for field fortifications.
what about COLD rounds??? HEAT rounds melt tank armour thus allowing for it to pentrate...temperature must be really high though....but has the designers given thought to extreme low temperature??? if you get it cold enough it becomes brittle and then heck you can use a hammer to smash through the armour (hypothetical)
Particularly man-portable ATGM's have too small warhead to be effective against tanks with anything but HEAT and EFP loadout.
For artillery using HESH have very little sense as artillery usually have little problem changing to more specialized, more effective against particular target type rounds.
Against fortifications HE or thermobaric usually more effective.
Hey - how about the gun type used by Dr Freeze from the Batman movie, we could just freeze the tank with crew in its tracks.:unknown
Chrom - I agree with you that with what is currentely out there and what is being tested there really isn`t any type of gain to justify cost in producing such a round. Again - the British designed a ATGM in the late 60`s with a Hesh type warhead that did not stay in it`s inventory for too long. I would not use the man portables offer too small of a diameter for projectiles argument, you can design smaller projectiles that will give you satisfactory penetration or performance results, some of the key hang up is the actual cost of such a projectile.
I have already discussed with you in past threads on the use of Thermobaric projectiles, excellent for clearing out urbanized built up area`s, but doesn`t ambient temperature play as a possible down fall for this type of projectile, could be some of the reason why there are countries that are reluctant to field it.
It is more about weather conditions than temperature. TB work much worse in rainy and very windy weather.
I`ll buy the rain conditions due to moisture issue`s, but also this type of round is very unpredictable when exposed to extreme cold conditions. Think for example what happens to aluminized powder when it goes from a cold condition to a warm condition, it will begin a sweating effect.
I didnt heard of any problems in cold conditions - and at least in russia, you know, 2/3 year is cold
Well, may be there is problem in extreme cold conditions like by -50 C, but then again such temperature is very rare and most weapons will have problems by that anyway.
Besides, by such temperatures one need special equipment. There is no doubt special thermobaric mix for extreme low temperature can be fielded if general one have problems.
While I really like the HESH and think it is a nice multipurpose round I also think that modern HEs for MBTs made a good step forward.
Actually I am not sure if I would still favorite the usual HESH round like used for the british L30 when I could also get a modern HE round which can be fuzed for best effect (be it detonation at impact, after impact or airburst).
Actually I am not sure if I would still favorite the usual HESH round like used for the british L30 when I could also get a modern HE round which can be fuzed for best effect (be it detonation at impact, after impact or airburst).
While I do agree with your post, Hesh still seems quite popular with countries like India and Iran who still manufacture them. Have you seen the average muzzle velocity on a Hesh round, you really do not even need a tracer element.
I didnt heard of any problems in cold conditions - and at least in russia, you know, 2/3 year is cold
Well, may be there is problem in extreme cold conditions like by -50 C, but then again such temperature is very rare and most weapons will have problems by that anyway.
Besides, by such temperatures one need special equipment. There is no doubt special thermobaric mix for extreme low temperature can be fielded if general one have problems.
It doesn`t have to get that cold for the round to start having issues.
Also it may not be that easy to design a batch for cold weather purposes, all it takes is a little moisture.- Status