who can kill a modern Main Battle Tank (MBT)?

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Waylander

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Ok I asked my dictionary and the right translation for what I wanted to say is multi-layered.
They normally say it is not steel, it is not chobham, it is not bad. ;)

There have never been non-classified infos about german armor except that it is a mix of some different materials.
 
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Waylander

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I finally found the article of the new active protection system from Diehl (Germany)

"07/21/2006



Diehl's Vehicle Protection System Tested Successfully



In the presence of high-ranking representatives of the Federal Ministry of Defence, the Bundeswehr as well as international armed forces, Diehl BGT Defence´s AWiSS active protection system successfully defeated a rapidly approaching MILAN anti-tank missile.

The autonomously operating demonstrator system, deployed on a Leopard 2 main battle tank, was able to automatically detect the threat in time, to precisely track the missile and to neutralize it through controlled ignition of a fragmentation grenade. The remaining fragments as well as the MILAN´s shaped charge no longer posed any danger to the battle tank.

The trial performed at the test range of the Federal Office´s of Defense Technology and Pro-curement technical agency 91 in Meppen in June demonstrated the successful combination of sensors, battle management computer and directed launcher as the main components of AWiSS. The test represents an important milestone in the development of active systems for enhanced vehicle self-protection. Next to battle tanks, potential applications include particularly military and special vehicles equipped with basic protection against mines, explosives and small calibre projectiles. In this category AWiSS provides additional protection against widespread rocket-propelled grenades and modern missiles. Due to its rapid reaction time, AWiSS is also suited for operation in urban terrain occurring frequently in today´s international missions. AWiSS offers 360° comprehensive protection and is capable of engaging ballistic projectiles as well.

In view of today´s state of activities, currently funded by an R&T-contract of the Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement, the AWiSS system could be available on the market in two to three years ensuring enhanced protection of vehicle and crew."

Source: http://www.diehl-bgt-defence.de/index.php?id=545&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=573&tx_ttnews[backPid]=538&cHash=16169fb8e3&L=1
 
M

merocaine

New Member
Kornet or Metis?

Waylander or Extern,

Gentlemen your expertise please,


"At around 1:40 P.M., an IDF Merkava tank was struck by an explosive device in the village of Aita al-Shaab in the western sector. The tank's four crew members were killed instantly. The IDF is still investigating the source of the explosion. The kind of damage sustained by the tank (its turret was blown off) appears to indicate that the vehicle was hit by a large explosive device, but a senior Northern Command officer told Haaretz on Wednesday night that it was more likely that the Merkava had been hit by an anti-tank missile.

IDF troops in the area reported seeing the missile in flight."

Lifted from Haaretz an Israeli paper this morning. The IDF confirmed that the Hezzbullah have Metis anti tank missles, they also suspected they had Kornets obtained Via syria, do you think a Metis could have caused this damage? or are we looking at a Kornet?
Or just a big IED?

cheers
 
A

andrei

New Member
The Hezbollah

The hezbollah certainly seems to be able to destroy a few tanks every day. EVen the mighty Merkawas are blown up either by hidden explosives or by modified Saggers.
 
E

extern

New Member
merocaine said:
do you think a Metis could have caused this damage? or are we looking at a Kornet?
Or just a big IED?
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Both Kornet and Metis can penetrate Merk3 and Merk4 but with different probability. According to opinion of russian experts, the probability of penetration from frontal direction for Merk4 with Kornet will be about 70%. With Metis it looks to be some less. However it most brobably was Merk3 coz it is from reserve unit.

In any case the Israeli source now speak about Kornet:

Tank destroyed by missile

Four soldiers were killed before noon Wednesday after an antitank missile fired by Hizbullah gunmen hit and destroyed an IDF tank in the village of Aita al-Shaab. The soldiers' families have been notified of their death.

The tank that was struck belonged to the 847 reserve brigade, which has been operating in the sector under the command of the Carmeli reserve brigade. IDF sources reported that immediately after the attack the tank caught fire and soldiers were unable to approach it.

IDF sources assessed that a Kornet-type missile hit the tank, probably from close range. The fire that had erupted in the tank led officials to believe that the tanks' fire extinguisher system had failed to function. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3288870,00.html

However, no kornets were captured before now. The most AT weapon of Hizballa are Fagot ATGM, RPG-29 and Malyutka (Sager).
About RPG-29 see here: http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl04-e.htm
 
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Waylander

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I did not know that they use Merk 2 for the Lebanese operation. :confused:
Seems stupid to me, because there should be enough 3 and 4 available for a operation of this size and I also just saw 3 and 4 on pictures.
However the Kornet and other ATGMs seem to work well in there. Good terrain for ambushes I think. Hizbollah is said to be well trained and they are definetely motivated.
I really think many countrys give them some new toys for testing.
 
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extern

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Waylander said:
I did not know that they use Merk 2 for the Lebanese operation. :confused:
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The first losed on IED israeli tank in current Lebanon war also was Merk2. The same It blowouted.

Today Hezballah clames 13 destroyed tanks but no confirmation from the Israeli side.

Anyway there are some pics of hitted Merks. Also a pic of captured Hezb's TOW antitank missiles and the pic of probably first documented use of Trophy active protection system.
 
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Waylander

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I think one of the main problems of the Israelis is the raid tactic itself. During a massive conventional tank aussault disabled and seperated tanks would soon be save behind the lines and the attached combat engineers, medics, logistics, etc. are able to reach the tank.
During these raids you are just not able to take cover behind your own lines especially not if you are in the leading position.

I saw that during some maneuvers. While the attacker had many mobility kills, technical failures or wounded personal most of its tanks where not destroyed completely. While during short small scale raid/heavy scout attacks, of not more than platoon size, the leading tank faced a well defended position or ambush. The tanks took hits and there was no tank line coming to roll over this spotted position so they were easy prey for the enemy while retreating under fire.
There is not always artillery or air support available as fast as you need it during such an occassion.
 
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merocaine

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However the Kornet and other ATGMs seem to work well in there. Good terrain for ambushes I think. Hizbollah is said to be well trained and they are definetely motivated.
I really think many countrys give them some new toys for testing.
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This is great advertising for the Russians, those Kornets are going to be selling like hot cakes.
 
B

B.Smitty

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Zaphael said:
One wonders how exactly Hezbollah gets their hands on Tow Missiles huh?
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They were sold to Iran back in the day and Iran gave them to Hezbollah.
 
G

Grand Danois

Entertainer
B.Smitty said:
Excellent point.

Are we sure these are captured rounds and not just photos of Israeli warstocks?
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My first thought certainly was that it is Israeli warstock... the picture simply does not show captured hezbollah kit.
 
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Waylander

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merocaine said:
This is great advertising for the Russians, those Kornets are going to be selling like hot cakes.
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Is there a country out there which is able to pay for Kornets or other modern ATGMs and don't has them? (Despite of germany :mad: :( :) )
 
B

Boolag

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Waylander said:
Is there a country out there which is able to pay for Kornets or other modern ATGMs and don't has them? (Despite of germany :mad: :( :) )
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Heh NewZealand recently ordered a number of javerlin ATGW's + launchers from the states to provide a credible anti-tank defence in peace-keeping situations..We probably woulda got more gear for the same price if the govt had bought russian..But the Aussies bought the same weapon + our countries try to achive commonality of gear most of the time..+ we're on a buy USA/Aussie binge at the mo..Pity we aint gettin MBTs like them..It'd be nice to see Abhrams trundling out of burnham on a regular basis : )But utterly unlikely, i know.
 
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merocaine

New Member
Heh NewZealand recently ordered a number of javerlin ATGW's + launchers from the states to provide a credible anti-tank defence in peace-keeping situations..We probably woulda got more gear for the same price if the govt had bought russian..But the Aussies bought the same weapon + our countries try to achive commonality of gear most of the time..+ we're on a buy USA/Aussie binge at the mo..Pity we aint gettin MBTs like them..It'd be nice to see Abhrams trundling out of burnham on a regular basis : )But utterly unlikely, i know.
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who's going to attack peace keepers with tanks!!!

I looove anti tank tank weapons though, for the price of a second hand volkwagon golf I have just totalled your multi million pound state of the art tank!!!

Its interesting though, offensive weapons always cost so much more than defensive systems.
 
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