That's not a credible source. It's a conspiracy theorist site with a very strong anti-western agenda. Everything that's wrong in the world is a result of plots by the USA, its allies, capitalists, western media, etc. If there's a quarrel between Russia & a western ally, it automatically backs Russia.
War Against ISIS
- Thread starter spikehades
- Start date
wittmanace
Active Member
In this instance I would add to that, that the specific terrain in those videos meant the hinds were not visible from very far at all, due to the hills, heights, etc there. Firing flares and chaff and flying so low they can't be seen from far, or seen for very long from any angle. Looked like quite well controlled use of the terrain and like they had a good idea of what was on the ground, rather than opportunism. I wouldn't have the slightest idea yet whether that attack profile is representative of their use in Syria (by Russia).
wittmanace
Active Member
Just to keep it here, in case it isn't accessible on the news pages in future or not to all countries, the footage is here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VJYeG09Npj0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VJYeG09Npj0
wittmanace
Active Member
Other footage uploaded the day after the link above, but composite footage, is here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQRzF2SKt5Q
Includes some other angles also.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQRzF2SKt5Q
Includes some other angles also.
alexkvaskov
New Member
Which, if any, targeting and jamming pods does Russia have deployed in Syria?
Russia has no targetting pods currently in service. They have deployed various variants of the Khibiny EW pods on Su-30SM and Su-34s.
Agreed, not bad use of terrain. The constant Chaffe makes me wonder what level of Intel they actually have on any MANPADS.
I think it will get more interesting when the first Russian aircraft is actually downed
wittmanace
Active Member
Depending on Russian aircraft use, I imagine it is an if not when question specifically being shot down. If they are using Russian aircraft on munitions dumps, command control, supply routes, etc and at range, it isn't a given that they'll have a shoot down.
It might be that the Russians are very limited in what they'll do from the air, whereas the Syrians will do the work that is more likely to see a shoot down. The Russians have also demonstrated a willingness to use cruise missiles. It might be that the Russians have been instructed they cannot afford a shoot down for other reasons.
It might be that the Russians are very limited in what they'll do from the air, whereas the Syrians will do the work that is more likely to see a shoot down. The Russians have also demonstrated a willingness to use cruise missiles. It might be that the Russians have been instructed they cannot afford a shoot down for other reasons.
The low flying russian coffins are manpadfood like in good old days Afghanistan.
Putin wants to Play soviet games, so he will suffer same end as the soviets.
Saudis just waiting for aproove of manpad delivery from Washington.
If Pentagon analysts say "ok, pull the plug of ivan" than russkys will run away from syria like soviets run away from Afghanistan.
Putin wants to Play soviet games, so he will suffer same end as the soviets.
Saudis just waiting for aproove of manpad delivery from Washington.
If Pentagon analysts say "ok, pull the plug of ivan" than russkys will run away from syria like soviets run away from Afghanistan.
wittmanace
Active Member
Not entirely sure why I am replying to that post, but let me ask you to clarify:
You are saying the Russian military contingent in Syria is the same technological level as the soviet presence in Afghanistan, and also that their aircraft are highly vulnerable fodder for manpads? And that the Saudis are supplying said manpads with American approval, and that they will be shooting down a lot of Russian aircraft, and that this will result in a Russian withdrawal? And this is at US say-so?
I'm not going to ask what "good old days" of Afghanistan implies really.
You are correct with your assumptions. Russians are still at the same technological level of the early 90 ´s, when soviets colapsed.
Proove me wrong. Russia can´t even design electro optics, Ship Propulsion or UAV technology. And now they are broke and can´t buy anything anymore. Saudi Kingdom and OPEC cripples Russian oil income.
USA has two big enemies. And neither of them are Islam or Islamic Countries. Russia and China are opponents to US world hegemony. US will not tolerate them any longer. Obama is finished with his incompetency and apprehension.
wittmanace
Active Member
Well, considering they are using su-24m Gefest, su-34, kalibr, etc they clearly aren't using what they used in soviet times in Afghanistan. As for things Russia can't produce, I suggest you get a more recent book to read, no offence meant.
America doesn't get to decide what is tolerated in the world in the real world. Just doesn't work like that. It's an interesting view of the world, to say the least. Out of curiosity, is America currently tolerating the Ukraine situation, the Iraq situation, the Syria situation, the Russian role in Syria situation, the Hezbollah in Syria situation, the current Israeli Palestinian situation, etc etc etc?
The gulf between what any one person would want to be the case and what is the case is rather large here. Pie in the sky ideas don't address reality, regardless of what outcome one seeks.
I would remind you to remain civil in your discourse here, and not blatantly fish for angry responses based on troll-like commentary like the "good old days of Afghanistan" and the Russians "running away" at America's behest. This may not have been your intent but it can certainly be construed as a deliberate attempt at antagonism. So take what I've said on board, thankyou.
Out of all the things you could've said, electro-optics is a funny one given that Russia does actively produce them in fairly large quantities. Instead of troll-baiting, I suggest you do your research before commenting.
From what I gather, Russian aircraft during the Afghan War found realatively effective means of dealing with Stingers. Obviously many were shot down but by 1987-89, it was actually becoming quite dangerous to fire on Hinds. Even if attrition was high, the Russian use of helicopters could be quite devastating, not least for morale. Ahmad Shah Massoud once said: 'We are not afraid of the Russians - just their helicopters." I would imagine that just as portable AA systems have improved a lot since then, so have the various counter-measures against them.
wittmanace
Active Member
I imagine satellite Intel sharing with those same rebels near the Russian bases, along with the means for targeting the bases (much like 120mm mortars and sat info, guided arty, during the Afghan war) would still be a way to go about this process of increasing military cost. I dont think the U.S. has this cost escalation for Russia as the priority though. Even if this were the case, and I don't think it is, this would entail militarily helping Al Qaeda affiliated groups, or eventually ISIS. I just don't see that happening in any way shape or form.
Sending advanced or modern manpads into Syria for rebel use might just be the most assured way of blowback and escalation. One must wonder what the Russians might do in response.
Back to the topic, I see the bbc is reporting Assad is making gains after the Russian air strikes. I keep getting logged out when I go to another window, but I'll try post the link again.
I see the U.S. Has started to drop ammo to rebels, in lieu of the previous methodology. The note on a fighter escort is interesting. More detail in the story:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34509793
Sending advanced or modern manpads into Syria for rebel use might just be the most assured way of blowback and escalation. One must wonder what the Russians might do in response.
Back to the topic, I see the bbc is reporting Assad is making gains after the Russian air strikes. I keep getting logged out when I go to another window, but I'll try post the link again.
I see the U.S. Has started to drop ammo to rebels, in lieu of the previous methodology. The note on a fighter escort is interesting. More detail in the story:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34509793
Last edited:
Well at this point one of the directions the offensive is taking is pushing what few rebels there are in Latakia province. I think the idea is to secure the area where the Russian military is operating from any serious rebel attacks, and then proceed to push the rebels out of the more populous areas.
Russia is focusing on interdiction and from the looks of it CAS. This kind of close coordination with Syrian and Iranian efforts on the ground is having effect.
It's a relief to get balanced discussion in here.
A colleague send me some material where some very rabid asia minor/sub continental posters were talking about the russians committing 150k men into syria.....
I kid you not
A colleague send me some material where some very rabid asia minor/sub continental posters were talking about the russians committing 150k men into syria.....
I kid you not
wittmanace
Active Member
Is the CAS observation based on the hind videos? I ask as I had not seen anything to confirm they were Russian as opposed to Syrian (whether or not the latter would be piloted by Syrians or mercs as in other conflicts at this stage, I don't know).
They're Mi-24Ps, and the tactics are highly atypical. We can be almost 100% certain that they're Russian. There seems to be little doubt of this around the more intelligent rumor mills, and while I agree that their use there seems a little risky, on the other hand it seems that they're using them against rebel groups that known not to have MANPADS of any kind. Remember, the reality is that shooting down a heavily armored attack helicopter, as it's zipping around over head and dropping death on everything around you, is no easy task. Especially when the pilots are competent and the people trying to shoot them down aren't.
Yes. And they would use giant ground effect vehicles to deliver them to the Syrian shores.It's a relief to get balanced discussion in here.
A colleague send me some material where some very rabid asia minor/sub continental posters were talking about the russians committing 150k men into syria.....
I kid you not
Beriev Aircraft Company - Be-2500 amphibious aircraft
It'll be just like Red Alert 3. Armored bears, and people-cannons.