Thanks, I was under the impression that the Brimstone was more affordable than the Hellfire for some reason.
Will keep an eye out for the LMM, looks really interesting.
War Against ISIS
- Thread starter spikehades
- Start date
Will keep an eye out for the LMM, looks really interesting.
Radar guided missiles are useless in a LIC/COIN environment. Brimstone is a dual seeker head, the option to choose laser guidance versus radar guidance is it's virtue (among other things) however a dual seeker head is quite a bit more expensive. Why waste a radar seeker in an OE whereby radar guidance can't be used.
I would expect expedited approval of the Iraqi request. The missiles will be well-suited to the upcoming offensive vs. ISIL.
APKWS II: Laser-Guided Hydra Rockets in Production At Last
Nov 12/14: The US DSCA announces the Shi’ite government of Iraq’s official export request for up to 2,000 APKWS rockets, weapon and test support equipment, spare and repair parts, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, transportation, and other forms of US government and contractor support. The estimated cost is up to $97 million.
APKWS II: Laser-Guided Hydra Rockets in Production At Last
Nov 12/14: The US DSCA announces the Shi’ite government of Iraq’s official export request for up to 2,000 APKWS rockets, weapon and test support equipment, spare and repair parts, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, transportation, and other forms of US government and contractor support. The estimated cost is up to $97 million.
Its not cheaper to maintain stocks of 2 separate precision guided weapon systems, to have them integrated, flight tested and certified to operate on these different platforms as well as have ground crews qualified on the differing ordnance types and pilots qualified and trained to employ them. Especially when one is relatively limited in capability compared to the other, budgets are tight and you NEED one of these weapon systems for helicopters already in-service...
Why wouldn't you spend a bit more to certify a new type of ordnance if it will be cheaper to buy and support, result in less collateral damage and allow you to engage from 2-3X the number of targets per sortie. Older weapons may still be used but gradually phased out if need be, existing personnel can be retrained
Brimstone is very good with respect to collateral damage, that's probably one of the best things about it. There was an article going around which claimed that Brimstone was the only air weapon certified for deployment in built up areas in Libya.
If you start going to a smaller warhead you may as well go LMM, Griffin doesn't offer any significant performance differences to make it worthwhile.
In other news, Italy has increased its coalition involvement with a deployment of 4 Tornado aircraft to Kuwait (offered up a 767 tanker and 2 Predators (unarmed) + 280 instructors).
Added to that is weapons heading to the Kurds, an undisclosed number of 80mm AT weapons from Italian stocks, 100 MG42/59 machine guns and 100 M2 .50's. 2000 RPGs and 400,000 'MG' (not mentioned if their 7.62 or .50) rounds.
Defense News Mobile - Italy To Send 4 Tornados for Recon in Iraq
Nice round up of UK strikes in Iraq, courtesy of the UK Govt.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/latest-iraq-air-strikes
If you start going to a smaller warhead you may as well go LMM, Griffin doesn't offer any significant performance differences to make it worthwhile.
In other news, Italy has increased its coalition involvement with a deployment of 4 Tornado aircraft to Kuwait (offered up a 767 tanker and 2 Predators (unarmed) + 280 instructors).
Added to that is weapons heading to the Kurds, an undisclosed number of 80mm AT weapons from Italian stocks, 100 MG42/59 machine guns and 100 M2 .50's. 2000 RPGs and 400,000 'MG' (not mentioned if their 7.62 or .50) rounds.
Defense News Mobile - Italy To Send 4 Tornados for Recon in Iraq
Nice round up of UK strikes in Iraq, courtesy of the UK Govt.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/latest-iraq-air-strikes
Depends on the target and the platform.. for UAVs in particular, the trend is to go to smaller weapons given payload restrictions. As for Griffin specifically, it's effectiveness has been proven in actual combat and continues to be relied upon by the USMC.
Yes, and Brimstone fits the bill just right, it's only a Hellfire with a more effective seeker at the end of the day.
Just as Brimstone has for the RAF.
I'm still failing to see why buying Griffin would be worth the cost for the UK considering Brimstone does everything we need of it and more plus including we have smaller warhead weapons available to be easily integrated should the requirement for an even lower CD weapon (highly unlikely considering Brimstone is huuuugly low in CD) arise in the form of LMM.
In effect, why is a weapon with marginal performance reductions worth the capital cost of purchase and then paying for integration and storage? IMO it's not worth it considering what Brimstone offers.
Because it cost a lot more than just "a bit more" in costs and time to certify a new (to the user or the platform) weapon system for use. Enough in fact that, unless you have a pressing need, the cost and time required tend to have major influence on the decision making process. Any savings will disappear until you have probably fired off several thousand units in this price range.
Looks like the Iraqi army is back in shape. The two pronged attack on Baiji and Ramadi seems to be doing well. Baiji has been cleared of most of the IS fighters, so hopefully this operation in Ramadi will see similar success soon.
Iraq troops battle IS in Ramadi BBC News - Iraq troops battle Islamic State in Ramadi, Anbar province
I do wonder, presently is the Iraqi Army fighting as a combined-arms force, or are their divisions still service-specific?
Iraq troops battle IS in Ramadi BBC News - Iraq troops battle Islamic State in Ramadi, Anbar province
I do wonder, presently is the Iraqi Army fighting as a combined-arms force, or are their divisions still service-specific?
Because integration of modern precision guided weapons is an extremely expensive, time consuming activity. It's very easy to just suggest chucking new weapons on new platforms. It's very difficult o make it happen.
When Australia integrated the AGM-142 onto F-111 years back, it tok 10 years and cost $600 odd million. There were calls to put them on to the Hornets, because how cheap it would be given we already had them...
Except the cost of doing so isn't ever considered. Except by the professionals who will actually have to do the work and pay for it of course...
The French are really getting stuck in, their 9 Rafales are taking part in IS strikes and now they're deploying another 6 Mirage 2000's (D's, presumably). Although differently to the Rafales which are UAE-based, these will be based in Jordan.
France To Send 6 Mirage Jets To Jordan Against Islamic State | Defense News | defensenews.com
Geographically it's knocked off half the distance, roughly.
France To Send 6 Mirage Jets To Jordan Against Islamic State | Defense News | defensenews.com
Geographically it's knocked off half the distance, roughly.
Nick underscore
Member
Reported a day or so back but Iranian F-4's have been carrying out recent strikes against ISIS positions in the Iraqi province of Diyala, in support of Iraqi ground forces.
Iran denying use, but only Turkey is the other F-4 current operator within the region.. Is there behind scenes co-operation with coalition air command & control? Why a direct strike and not through the Iraqi AF with their recently donated Su-25's?
Iranian Phantom jet strikes the Islamic State in Iraq - IHS Jane's 360
Iran denying use, but only Turkey is the other F-4 current operator within the region.. Is there behind scenes co-operation with coalition air command & control? Why a direct strike and not through the Iraqi AF with their recently donated Su-25's?
Iranian Phantom jet strikes the Islamic State in Iraq - IHS Jane's 360
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Given the performance of the Iraqi army why should there be any confidence in the Iraqi AF? How would coalition pilots feel about having these guys on their six?
Well, who cares how the pilots feel, they aren't paid to offer their opinions, their paid to obey orders. And it's the Iranian AF at play here, not the Iraqi AF.
If Iran did try anything against a coalition aircraft, they would regret the move quickly.
Guess that's why there are F-22s in theatre. Iranian F-4s have encountered USAF F-22s before, and we all know how it ended.
Why would Iranian aircraft attempt to engage coalition aircraft; given that Iran and the West share the same enemy [the West also shares the same enemy as Assad but we won't get into that] and the same geopotical concerns? It might not be mentioned openly, but the West is more than happy for Iran to get involved in helping Iraq battle ISIS. Notice how there were no statements by the State Department or the White House spokesman which expressed ''concern'' when reports emerged that Pasdaran elements had entered Iraq to assist their Shiia brethren?
Given that Iran is a major player in the region, continuing to isolate Iran, to keep it out of Iraq [as was the previous case] and not to engage with it over matters of shared concerns, would be toomfoolery.
The US has a new friend in the region: Iran - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
http://www.defensenews.com/article/...ces-Operate-Separate-Areas-Iraq-Officials-Say
And if it hadn't been for a loan by the Shah, to Grumman at a time when Congress had cut funding, the F-14 might never have entered production. Ironic isn't it, given how relations between the post-Shah Iran and the U.S later turned out.
When it comes to dealing with the threat posed by Sunni groups like ISIS; does the West need ''behind the scenes diplomacy/cooperation'' with Iran more or vice versa?
Who's actually turning out to be more of a ''ally'' in the war against ISIS and groups like it: Western ''allies'' like Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, etc. or Iran?
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It would be safe to assume that they're not happy but there's really not much they can do about it; especially given that there are no troops from the Sunni Gulf countries assisting the Iraqis and that we hardly hear of RSAF F-15s in the skies of northern Iraq hunting for ISIS targets or UAE C-17s dropping aid to refugees.
With Western support, Saudi policy has long been to isolate and weaken Iran - this is part of the ''cold war'' fought between Saudi and the Gulf states [involving off countries such as Pakistan] with Iran. It was for this reason that the West and the Gulf states supported Saddam in his 8 year war against Iran, off course Iranian rhetoric about spreading the revolution westwards across the Gulf didn't help. Support given to anti-Assad rebel groups by the Gulf states are mainly intended to weaken Iran as Assad is the only Arab ally Iran has - this bilateral realtionship goes back to the Iran/Iraq war when Syria was the only Arab country supporting to Iran.