USA Planning 20 Billion $ Arms Sale to Saudi Arabia

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
but i guess you are right AL-qaieda run by Saudis financed by Saudis is a threat to Saudis:eek:nfloorl:
You might want to read up on why and how Al Quaeda was founded. And which nationality Bin-Laden's family is originally.

And you're misinterpreting the House As-Saud with "Saudi-Arabians" there.

To get somewhat back on topic:

Does Saudi-Arabia plan anything on the Arabian peninsula itself with the new equipment? Maybe taking over some of the "assistance" US units currently provide to the Yemeni government or something similar?

And on another note: Does anyone know what happened to those several dozen conventional DF-3A MRBMs Saudi-Arabia purchased from China in the late 80s? Are they still active? Do they play any role in Saudi-Arabia's strategic posture?
 

SaudiArabian

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #142
Does Saudi-Arabia plan anything on the Arabian peninsula itself with the new equipment? Maybe taking over some of the "assistance" US units currently provide to the Yemeni government or something similar?
can you clarify the question please ? i couldn't understand


And on another note: Does anyone know what happened to those several dozen conventional DF-3A MRBMs Saudi-Arabia purchased from China in the late 80s?


:D



Are they still active?
Do they play any role in Saudi-Arabia's strategic posture?
yes
 

cheetah

New Member
San Antonio Express-News

The announcement by the Bush administration that it intends to sell $20 billion of military hardware to Saudi Arabia over the next 10 years is not as surprising as many commentators are leading us to believe.
So what is the truth in all this? Sherlock Holmes' eternal words come to mind: "After eliminating the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth."

The first impossibility is that Saudi Arabia can defend itself. The Saudi defense forces are divided between its national guard and the regular military. The former is far better equipped and trained than the latter. However, the national guard is the primary organ for the defense of the regime, not the state. Hence, it is made up of individuals from tribes loyal to the Al-Saud family.

It is therefore evident that as long as mistrust of the regime remains, it will be unable to defend itself even if it buys 10 times the amount of weapons. Also, if history is an indicator, these new weapons will either remain crated or will be used to train U.S. military forces in the region.

During the Reagan administration, the Saudis spent billions on sophisticated Airborne Warning and Control Systems, or AWACs, and other hardware, as well as infrastructure. They certainly didn't use them, and very few Saudis even know what the inside of an AWAC looks like. American-made Saudi weapon systems were used by U.S. forces for training and later in the first Iraq war. When were they ever used by the Saudis?

This latest deal includes satellite-guided missiles and other smart bombs. Having such weapons might mean a great deal if Saudi Arabia owned satellites, but the Saudis don't, and they will have to rely on U.S. access to satellite technology. In short, the U.S. will have a say on when and where those weapons can be used,:D at least until the Saudis are able to put their own satellites in orbit.

The situation is much worse in the small states of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, also slated to receive new weapons. There are about 300,000 Qataris and less than a million citizens out of a population of 4 million in the UAE. To make matters worse, large chunks of the UAE military are made up of Pakistanis and other nationalities.

In the final analysis, none of these regimes, independently or combined, is any match for Iran militarily, and they will have to continue their reliance on the deterrence power of the United States. The cost will not be cheap, for that $20 billion will mushroom over 10 years to at least twice the amount in spare parts, maintenance, training, replacements, upgrades and so on.

More important, the sale will ensure the long-term presence of the U.S. in the region even if it is forced to leave Iraq next year.

If none of the above is convincing, one can regard it as the administration's departing gift to the military-industrial complex at a time when Europeans, particularly the British, are courting the Saudis in an attempt to sell them advanced Eurofighters in a multibillion-dollar deal.

The Israelis know this is a nonsense deal, and they are fully aware that it would not alter the balance of power in the region. But by not making a fuss, they would come out of the carnival without candy.

Israel will receive $9 billion in additional aid for a total of $30 billion over the next nine years. And unlike other recipients of U.S. aid, Israel can do with it what it desires without any accounting to Washington.

Going back to Sherlock, the deal is a miserable one for the Arabs because it will ensure a perpetual Saudi-Iranian conflict when there is little need for it. The Saudis are taking on President Bush's war and they will be sorry. Bush and most of America don't like them, and in the end they will gain the enmity of Iran.

Second, Saudi Arabia is America's largest creditor after China, but there are better ways to help the U.S. besides wasting money on military hardware destined to rust in a merciless desert.

Third, under the guise of balance, the increased aid to Israel will be used to make life more miserable for the Palestinians by building more settlements and expropriating more Palestinian lands.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The more and more i get to no this more and more Respect i have for Israelies.
 

SaudiArabian

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #144
ok Sherlock Holmes , lets see :D ..

The first impossibility is that Saudi Arabia can defend itself. The Saudi defense forces are divided between its national guard and the regular military. The former is far better equipped and trained than the latter.
1. it isn't divided on the gorund but are divided administratively. they are very cooperative and fight together under one command and thats what we saw in the Battle of Khafji in 1991

2. the Saudi Armed Forces (SAF) are far more well-equipped than the Saudi Arabian National Guard (SANG). SAF has all the airpower and all the heavy tanks and missile launchers with huge military air bases and installations while SANG relies on light vehicles.

both have different tasks



During the Reagan administration, the Saudis spent billions on sophisticated Airborne Warning and Control Systems, or AWACs, and other hardware, as well as infrastructure. They certainly didn't use them, and very few Saudis even know what the inside of an AWAC looks like. American-made Saudi weapon systems were used by U.S. forces for training and later in the first Iraq war. When were they ever used by the Saudis?
apart from the previous nonsense , they were used in 1988 to block the Saudi Airspace in Tabuk from any possible israeli attack on Al Sulayyil base

Prince Abdulrahman said there was a royal decree that if any part of the Kingdom is attacked by israel then the Saudi Forces will respond immediately by striking israel with everything

for more information on this incident look to the DVD video (Fahd , the Man , the King) , i have the DVD's here but i don't know how to take clips from it


This latest deal includes satellite-guided missiles and other smart bombs. Having such weapons might mean a great deal if Saudi Arabia owned satellites, but the Saudis don't, and they will have to rely on U.S. access to satellite technology.
currently the Kingdom has 12 Saudi-built Satellites in space and there are plans to launch more than 23 satellites

these satellites are manufactured by Saudi scientists in the Space institution center of King Abdulaziz city of Science and Technology as part of the Saudi Space Program

recently few months ago , 6 Saudi-built satellites were launched to space on a Russian missile and one of these satellites was for remote-sensing


i believe that it will be easy to build a satellite for the satellite-guided missiles and launch it to space within a year or less

http://www.saudiembassy.net/2007News/News/NewsDetail.asp?cIndex=7076
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=78988&d=10&m=3&y=2006
http://english.bna.bh/?ID=56511
http://www.spa.gov.sa/English/print.php?id=337964


now does the source you quoted from , which claims the Kingdom has no satellites , has any credibility now ?


In the final analysis, none of these regimes, independently or combined, is any match for Iran militarily,
now i wonder was the misinformed person who wrote that article is Iranian or israeli ?

the article doesn't say the name of the writer and there is no link


If none of the above is convincing,
:D convincing ?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The more and more i get to no this more and more Respect i have for Israelies.
seek the facts from credible sources and be well-informed first before judging others based on false information :)
 

cheetah

New Member
seek the facts from credible sources and be well-informed first before judging others based on false information
i have the facts from independent sources none owned by house of saud.on the other hand you have absolulty nothing independent.may be you should follow your own advice

Mercenaries Inc.: How a U.S. Company Props Up the House of Saud
by William D. Hartung

We were shocked and saddened to hear about the attacks in Saudi Arabia and the deaths of at least 91 people there, including ten Americans.

But the fact that one of the targets was a U.S. private military corporation called Vinnell raises serious questions about the role of "executive mercenaries," and corporations who profit from war and instability. This is the second time in eight years that Vinnell's operations in Saudi Arabia have been the target of a terrorist attack. In 1995 a car bomb blasted through an Army training program Vinnell was involved with. The following year, Bill Hartung, a Senior Fellow at the World Policy Institute wrote this article for the Progressive magazine.

The sanitized version of American foreign policy asserts that the United States is hard at work promoting democratic values around the world in the face of attacks from totalitarian ideologies ranging from communism during the Cold War to Islamic fundamentalism today. Every once in a while an incident occurs that contradicts this reassuring rhetoric by revealing the secret underside of American policy, which is far more concerned with propping up pliable regimes that serve the interests of U.S. multinational corporations than it is with any meaningful notion of democracy. The November 13, 1995 bombing of the Saudi Arabian National Guard (SANG) headquarters and an adjacent building housing a U.S. military training mission is one such incident.

President Clinton tried to paint the bombing as just another senseless act of terrorism perpetrated by armed Islamic extremists, but the target was chosen much too carefully to support that simple explanation. The Saudi National Guard is a 55,000 man military force whose main job is to protect the Saudi monarchy from its own people, using arms from the United States and training supplied by roughly 750 retired U.S. military and intelligence personnel employed by the Vinnell Corporation of Fairfax, Virginia. A January 1996 article in Jane's Defence Weekly describes the SANG as "a kind of Praetorian Guard for the House of Saud, the royal family's defence of last resort against internal opposition." The November bombing -- which killed five Americans and wounded thirty more -- was certainly brutal, but it was far from senseless. As a retired American military officer familiar with Vinnell's operations put it,

"I don't think it was an accident that it was that office that got bombed. If you wanted to make a political statement about the Saudi regime you'd single out the National Guard, and if you wanted to make a statement about American involvement you'd pick the only American contractor involved in training the guard: Vinnell."

The story of how an obscure American company ended up becoming the Saudi monarchy's personal protection service is a case study in how the United States government has come to rely on unaccountable private companies and unrepresentative foreign governments to do its dirty work on the world stage, short-circuiting democracy at home and abroad in the process. In the wake of the Iran/contra scandal and the end of the Cold War, many observers of U.S. foreign policy have assumed that this penchant for covert policymaking has been put aside, but Vinnell's role in Saudi Arabia puts the lie to that comforting assumption.

Vinnell's Asian adventures served as a springboard for its emergence as a global company that was more than willing to do a little intelligence work on the side if the opportunity presented itself. In his memoir Ropes of Sand, former CIA operative Wilbur Crane Eveland describes how he used his Vinnell connection as a cover during his tours of duty in Africa and the Middle East in the early 1960s, noting that company founder Albert Vinnell expressed his willingness to help the agency do whatever it needed to do (for a fee, of course). Eveland returned the favor by negotiating contracts for Vinnell to do construction services on oil fields in Iran and Libya, bribing the appropriate officials along the way.

February 1975 contract for $77 million to train the Saudi National Guard brought Vinnell back from the brink of bankruptcy.

The Vinnell/Saudi training deal drew considerable fire, both in the press and on Capitol Hill. On February 9, 1975 Peter Arnett filed a piece for the Associated Press that raised questions about the propriety of a private U.S. company serving as a hired protection service for an undemocratic regime. When Maas asked one of Vinnell's men in Riyadh whether he viewed himself as a mercenary, the question drew a classic bureaucratic response: "We are not mercenaries because we are not pulling the triggers. We train people to pull the triggers. Maybe that makes us executive mercenaries."

This setup was a bit too blatant even for the more hawkish members of Congress. Senators Henry ("the Senator from Boeing") Jackson and Armed Services Committee Chairman John Stennis of Mississippi demanded hearings on the contract, which Jackson purported to find "completely baffling." Meanwhile, a reform-minded young Congressman from Wisconsin named Les Aspin aired charges that the $77 million Saudi contract may have been greased with a $4.5 million payment to middleman Ghassn Shaker, the very same Lebanese businessman that Vinnell was trying to give a controlling interest in the company at a cut rate price. The hearings were held and Shaker was dissuaded from buying a controlling interest in Vinnell, but the contract to train the Saudi National Guard was allowed to stand.

By 1979, when a rebellion rocked the Saudi regime and opposition forces occupied the Grand Mosque at Mecca, Vinnell's "executive mercenaries" were called out from behind the scenes onto the front lines. The Washington Post reported at the time that in the final stages of the storming of the mosque, the Saudi princes who were running the military operation relied on "advice from the large U.S. military training mission" (including Vinnell contract employees) and were "in frequent telephone contact with U.S. officials." Counterspy magazine further reported that when the initial National Guard assault failed, Vinnell personnel were brought to Mecca to "provide the tactical support needed to capture the Mosque."

During the 1980s, things returned to "normal" in Saudi Arabia, with strict controls on freedom of expression, harsh repression of the rights of women, public beheadings of common criminals, and the maintenance of a fiercely anti-communist, pro-U.S. foreign policy. (These same practices continue to this day). Vinnell's role as the regime's principal security "prop" was barely discussed in the U.S. media, but the company did figure indirectly in the biggest intelligence scandal of the decade, Iran/contra. Lt. Col. Richard Gadd, who went on to become the chief operations officer for Ollie North and Richard Secord's private weapons air drop service for the contras, was hired by Vinnell for his first job out of the Air Force. According to Steven Emerson's 1988 book Secret Warriors, Gadd's work at Vinnell involved setting up a private, "black" air transport service called Sumairco which was to be dedicated solely to secret U.S. army operations. Gadd left Vinnell after a few months, taking Sumairco with him. He also used his brief stopover at Vinnell to get started on two other "special services" companies, American National Management and Eagle Aviation Services, which were secretly involved in such major operations as the 1983 U.S. invasion of Grenada.

That someone like Gadd would use Vinnell as his transition from serving in the armed forces to joining the netherworld of private companies involved in covert operations on behalf of the U.S. government is not surprising. Although Vinnell is one of literally hundreds of companies that do work for the CIA and military intelligence agencies, its strong ties to Saudi Arabia and its experience in military training and logistics make it a central players in this still burgeoning field.

Today, the biggest question regarding Vinnell's ongoing operations is the same one that was posed twenty years ago: why is a U.S. company using retired U.S. military and intelligence personnel to defend a corrupt monarchy in Saudi Arabia? It's obvious what's in it for the monarchy: protection from rebels and democrats who might want to change the kingdom's form of government. On this front, Vinnell must be busier than ever: Human Rights Watch reported that in 1994, "Saudi Arabia witnessed the largest roundup in recent history of opposition activists and a new low in the dismal human rights record of the Kingdom." The organization's report for 1995 cited "further deterioration in human rights observance," including a harsh crackdown on peaceful Islamist organizations. Political parties and demonstrations are outlawed, there is no independent free press, and there has been a systematic crackdown on peaceful Islamic dissenters.

The lengths to which the Saudi regime will go to prevent critical information from reaching its subjects were underscored in January of 1996 when Saudi officials tried to get Britain to deport Mohammed al-Mas'ari, whose Committee for the Defense of Legitimate Rights has been faxing critical reports about the Riyadh government to contacts within Saudi Arabia from its offices in London. The none to subtle message conveyed to Conservative Prime Minister John Major's government was that if Mas'ari was allowed to continue operating from Britain, Britain's future arms sales and other commercial contracts with Saudi Arabia might suffer. While Mas'ari's democratic credentials have been questioned in some U.S. media assessments of the case, his message is clear enough -- he told the New York Times in late January that "The Saudi regime is a mafia that has enormous wealth under its control and doesn't want to give it up. We want to have an elected, accountable government with a real rule of law and an independent judiciary."

The Saudi government obviously feels threatened enough by statements of this sort to make Mr. Mas'ari's presence in London into an international incident. Supporters of Mr. Mas'ari's organization operating within Saudi Arabia are treated even more harshly. On August 11, 1995, the Saudi government beheaded Abdalla al-Hudhaif, a supporter of CDLR who was convicted by a secret tribunal of offenses ranging from firearms possession to distributing critical leaflets to allegedly throwing acid at a security officer. Human Rights Watch notes that this last allegation against Mr. al-Haif is the only violent incident alleged against the peaceful Islamist opposition in Saudi Arabia during the government's ongoing crackdown on their activities. With peaceful means of expressing disagreement with the current Saudi ruling circle so systematically blocked, violent outbursts like the bombing of the Saudi National Guard headquarters are more likely to occur, and to be met in turn by violent repression by Saudi Arabia's Vinnell-trained internal security forces.

As for Vinnell and its employees, their main interest in Saudi Arabia is undoubtedly the money. A retired Marine officer who did five years with Vinnell in Saudi Arabia reports that he was able to save up several hundred thousand dollars to buy a retirement home in cash. An official familiar with the work of another U.S. firm that recently got a contract to train the Saudi Navy says that employees at the firm "feel like they've died and gone to heaven, because the Saudis will never run out of money." The myth of Saudi Arabia as a bottomless source of cash has worn thin lately as tens of billions of weapons purchases from the United States plus the cost of the 1991 Gulf War have driven the Saudi budget into deficit for the first time ever, but Vinnell's contract is safe as long as the current Saudi ruling clique stays in power (it was recently renewed through 1998). If anything, Vinnell's fortunes may improve in the short-term, now that King Fahd has stepped aside for health reasons, leaving the reins of government in the hands of his brother, Crown Prince Abdullah ibn Abdulaziz, who also happens to run the National Guard. Jane's Defense Weekly has speculated that the guard may be built up even faster now as a way of enhancing Crown Prince Abdullah's personal power base, which will no doubt mean bigger contracts for Vinnell as well.

But is what's good for the Saudi monarchy and its chosen protection service good for the people of the United States or Saudi Arabia? The short answer is no, but the U.S. government has exerted considerable energy trying to convince us that we're all in this mess together and that Americans have no choice but to support the Saudi monarchy.

It's true that the Saudi regime provides a wide array of economic and political services to the U.S. government and U.S. corporations, but most of these services have little to do with promoting either democracy or prosperity for the citizens of the United States or Saudi Arabia. The Saudis provide access to their oil resources to U.S. firms on extremely favorable terms, and adjust their pricing policies within OPEC in ways that support U.S. interests. For years, a significant portion of Saudi "petrodollar" revenues have been invested in U.S. government bonds, helping ease the burden of the growing U.S. budget deficit (the tradeoff is that taxpayers have been asked to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to build a U.S. military force that can get to the Middle East on short notice to defend regimes such as the Saudi monarchy from threats from without or within).

In the realm of secret wheeling and dealing, the Saudis have not shied from putting up money for joint covert operations with the U.S., from arming the Afghan rebels to providing funds to Oliver North's Iran/contra "enterprise." According to the Washington Post, the latest U.S.-Saudi joint venture has been a secret initiative to provide over $300 million for covert weapons supplies to the Bosnian government during the period of the UN embargo on that nation. Although Clinton Administration officials have denied involvement in this scheme, it would be consistent with other U.S. actions of the past several years, such as looking the other way as planeloads of weapons were dropped in the area. What is certain is that Saudi Arabia will be approached about providing funds to train Bosnian Muslim forces in the context of the current NATO intervention to police the Dayton accords. A source with contacts within the Vinnell Corporation has indicated that the State Department has encouraged Vinnell to bid on the contract to train the Bosnian forces. Vinnell's parent company, BDM, which bought the firm in 1993 to expand its market niche in military training services, already has a contract to provide 500 translators for NATO peacekeeping forces in Bosnia.

The Cold War is over, and the culture of deception and covert dealing represented by the Vinnell Corporation's role in Saudi Arabia should be brought to and end with it. Nothing of value can come from sustaining the secretive network of companies and relationships that has fueled scandal after scandal and cost thousands of innocent lives. Even advocates of a U.S. military role in Bosnia have to take pause at the recent revelations of covert activities on the part of the U.S. and its ally, Saudi Arabia, in arming Bosnian forces. If true, the secret violation of the arms embargo on Bosnia will take its place alongside a long line of examples of U.S. government hypocrisy, from the secret arming of Iran and Iraq in the 1980s to the cover-up of the U.S. role in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Guatemalans by Pentagon backed military forces and CIA-backed death squads from the 1960s through the 1990s. The common thread uniting these operations is the use of private companies and shadowy intelligence operatives to subvert the publicly stated objectives of U.S. policy, undermining democratic accountability in the process.

The policy of using Vinnell trainers and U.S. arms supplies to keep the Saudi monarchy in power can not be sustained indefinitely. For one thing, the money's running out. The lavish social programs that have been used to buy off dissent are being cut sharply to make room for continuing expenditures on advanced American, French, and British weaponry. A number of security analysts are beginning the speak of Saudi Arabia as the "next Iran," -- a top-heavy, corrupt monarchy that is in danger of being overthrown by its own people if it fails to implement major reforms soon. And as one confidential financial advisor to the Saudis told the New York Times, the U.S. policy of pushing weapons and military solutions over democratization and social reform may be the greatest single threat to the survival of the House of Saud:

"People think we have this great gold mine in Saudi Arabia . . . I don't think the U.S. government realizes what it is doing by shoving weapons down the Saudi's throats. They're forgetting that what they're doing is creating instability in Saudi Arabia. That could be the greatest risk to Saudi security."

The people of Saudi Arabia will eventually demand and receive a measure of input into how their government is run and how their resources are utilized. Whether that change comes about through a revolution led by Islamic fundamentalists or an evolution towards democracy will depend in significant part on whether U.S. policy continues to back the monarchy to the hilt or press for a political opening that allows for peaceful change.

If the Saudi monarchy is overthrown, will Vinnell be put in charge of "cleaning up" all the sensitive U.S.-built military and intelligence facilities in Saudi Arabia as it was during the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam? Or will the American public head off that day by demanding that our government get out of the dictator protection racket and allow the possibility of genuine democratic development in Saudi Arabia?

William D. Hartung is a Senior Fellow at the World Policy Institute at the New School for Social Research in New York City and the author of And Weapons for All (HarperCollins, 1995). The author would like to thank his colleague Jennifer Washburn for providing research assistance in the preparation of this article.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0513-06.htm
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
can you clarify the question please ? i couldn't understand
The US is currently "rendering assistance" to the government of Yemen as part of the War against Terror - mostly by UAV overflights and fighter patrols, including also armed Predator missions and such; there are also military advisors for the army. These US troops are mostly based out of Djibouti, just across the Red Sea.

Oman - with the Straits of Hormuz - plays a similar strategic role for US and other Allied forces, and has problems with "rebels" in their South-Western desert.

I'm wondering if maybe there are some plans by Saudi Arabia to take a more active role in e.g. these two nations (Yemen and Oman), partly taking over roles from US forces there (and relieving them thus).

I could see the US suggesting an action like this, despite the obvious (history-related) problems both nations have with the Saudis..
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Oh man this is classic.

just for your information even the Americans have openly admitted that all terrorist coming to Iraq are of Saudi descend all suicide bombers are Saudi.
...
Nonsense! Some are Saudis, but certainly not all, & there has never been any such US claim. Any US official who made such a claim would immediately be sacked as incompetent, & his or her claim denied by Washington. Terrorists killed in Iraq include Egyptians, Jordanians, Yemenis & many others.

Do a little basic research, please.

Saudi Arabian,

while you're correct to point out the error in the report about Saudi satellites (i.e. the mistaken statement that there are none), the 12 satellites you refer to are scientific, communications, & earth observation. There's no Saudi equivalent of the Navstar, Glonass, or planned Galileo GPS satellites, & no prospect of one. Any Saudi satellite-guided missiles will have to rely on foreign GPS, whether US, Russian, or perhaps European or Chinese in the future.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
There's no Saudi equivalent of the Navstar, Glonass, or planned Galileo GPS satellites, & no prospect of one.
There aren't any other systems comparable to these three, worldwide, actually. And seriously, no one except the operators of these three (USA, Russia, EU/ESA) has the financial means to actually install and support such a system, to similar quality standards at least.

Both Israel and Saudi Arabia have joined the Galileo project in an attempt to get away from dependance on Navstar/GPS (ie the USA).

Galileo has the big advantage that even the Open Band (Public), with a multiband receiver, will be almost accurate enough for missile guidance (the Commercial and Military Services definitely are) and that - in the military applications - it'll supposedly be less prone to jamming.

Due to the above, we'll definitely not see independant navigation/positioning satellite systems from either Saudi Arabia or Israel. Both of these however employ remote-sensing and earth-observation satellites for recon.
 

kams

New Member
currently the Kingdom has 12 Saudi-built Satellites in space and there are plans to launch more than 23 satellites

these satellites are manufactured by Saudi scientists in the Space institution center of King Abdulaziz city of Science and Technology as part of the Saudi Space Program

recently few months ago , 6 Saudi-built satellites were launched to space on a Russian missile and one of these satellites was for remote-sensing
Err..I am not trying to put down Saudi Space capability, however I would like to point out that all the Saudi built satellites are basically what are called 'Micro Satellites'. Most of these basically fall in to Amateur Radio Satellite category. (Saudi sat 1A, Saudisat1B, Saudisat 1C launched in 2000-2002 using launchers from Ukraine and Russia)

Of the Six microsatellites launched recently (each weighing 12 kg) one is meant for Earth observations and was built by SunSpace of Stellenbosch University, South Africa for KAST. Other 5 satellites although called SaudiComsat (3 to 7) fall under Amateur Radio satellite.

All mainstream communication satellites Saudi Arabia uses (Arabsats) are built by European/ American companies and are financed by 22 Arab nations.

However it is a good begining. Saudi Arabia is making effective use of communication and Remore sensing satellites.

Refernce 1
Reference 2
 

kams

New Member
Nonsense! Some are Saudis, but certainly not all, & there has never been any such US claim. Any US official who made such a claim would immediately be sacked as incompetent, & his or her claim denied by Washington. Terrorists killed in Iraq include Egyptians, Jordanians, Yemenis & many others.

Do a little basic research, please.

Saudi Arabian,

while you're correct to point out the error in the report about Saudi satellites (i.e. the mistaken statement that there are none), the 12 satellites you refer to are scientific, communications, & earth observation. There's no Saudi equivalent of the Navstar, Glonass, or planned Galileo GPS satellites, & no prospect of one. Any Saudi satellite-guided missiles will have to rely on foreign GPS, whether US, Russian, or perhaps European or Chinese in the future.

I believe it was a Rand publication that put the Saudi born suicide bombers at 50% of all Suicide attacks in Iraq.
 

SaudiArabian

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #151
Cheetah , there are other non-Saudi sources especially Russian sources (one of the sources i gave is Bahraini not Saudi , plus that there are many pictures on that or you can even visit KACST website for information).

I don't understand why don't you realize the facts first and do a little search before calling what i said as "propaganda" and believe misinformation


kato said:
The US is currently "rendering assistance" to the government of Yemen as part of the War against Terror - mostly by UAV overflights and fighter patrols, including also armed Predator missions and such; there are also military advisors for the army. These US troops are mostly based out of Djibouti, just across the Red Sea.

Oman - with the Straits of Hormuz - plays a similar strategic role for US and other Allied forces, and has problems with "rebels" in their South-Western desert.

I'm wondering if maybe there are some plans by Saudi Arabia to take a more active role in e.g. these two nations (Yemen and Oman), partly taking over roles from US forces there (and relieving them thus).

I could see the US suggesting an action like this, despite the obvious (history-related) problems both nations have with the Saudis..
i see what you mean

i never heard that Oman had any internal problems , its a very peaceful state and it always keep away from problems as much as possible

however , Oman is a member of the GCC , and all the GCC states are bonded by Joint Defense agreement with Saudi Arabia and thus there wouldn't be any problem. the only problem thing is that Oman is the only GCC member that has military relation with Iran.

regarding Yemen , they heavily rely on KSA for their economy and now there are discussions to add Yemen as the 7th member of the GCC in exchange for giving Saudi Arabia a major port on the Arab sea

the problems are becoming a past and as you said ("History") , all what i see in the future is strong union

who knows ? .. perhaps after 10 years , the current GCC will be the GU (Gulf Union)



swerve said:
Saudi Arabian,

while you're correct to point out the error in the report about Saudi satellites (i.e. the mistaken statement that there are none), the 12 satellites you refer to are scientific, communications, & earth observation. There's no Saudi equivalent of the Navstar, Glonass, or planned Galileo GPS satellites, & no prospect of one. Any Saudi satellite-guided missiles will have to rely on foreign GPS, whether US, Russian, or perhaps European or Chinese in the future.
i know that already and thats why i said the scientists will face no problem in building a satellite because they have several years of experience with building satellites for that purpose within a year or maybe less if the government wants it quick and launch it through Russia as usuall.

all what they'll need is transfer of technology (<< i hope they can get it though). (few of the communication satellites are not commercial and belong to MODA for military communication)


one is meant for Earth observations and was built by SunSpace of Stellenbosch University, South Africa for KAST.
whats the refference for that information ? :)
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
i see what you mean

i never heard that Oman had any internal problems , its a very peaceful state and it always keep away from problems as much as possible
Yes, nowadays it's pretty peaceful. However, the Jabhah al-Sha'biyah al-Dimuqratiyah al-'Umaniyah opposition party is still around, along with its supporters against the Sultan. What's left of their organization anyway, after their 10-year rebellion in Dhofar was beaten down in 1976.

In the early/mid 70s, a certain Saudi prince (the current King, then iirc the Defense Minister or something like that) entertained invading Yemen as well, in order to gain a southern port for Saudi Arabia. Iirc his father denied him that back then.

This history is just that in the current situation, history. The GCC adds a lot of stability to the peninsula - but it has yet to prove itself in its joint-defense capacity really.
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
... - but it has yet to prove itself in its joint-defense capacity really.

Agreed. The much expected and lavishly funded "Peninsular Shield" force should have paved the way to further inter-GCC co-operation.

Since its deactivation however, its now just another footnote in history.
 

kenhew7

New Member
I thought Bush could only veto stuff as in, not allow it to be passed. I didn't know he could bypass Congress and just make stuff law.
whether Bush vetos or not makes no difference as and when Congress decides to withdraw troops from Iraq, the Iranians will march in and saves the day and if the day comes the israelis will not sit around and watch its biggest enemy at its back door and do nothing about it. the reason for the sale of weapons to the saudis is to let them counter the Iranians first before the israelis makes a calculative move without consulting the Americans like what they did way back in 1981 when they attacked the Osirak nuclear reactor
 

metro

New Member
Wow, I just saw this. I can't believe it still hasn't gone through!? Come to Annapolis! ;) I'll bet that does wonders... Otherwise Bush will put it through when congress is out of town.

World Tribune
Monday, November 19, 2007

White House faces battle over arms sales to Saudis for first time in 17 years

WASHINGTON — President George Bush has decided to send a proposed $20 billion arms package for Saudi Arabia to Congress over the next few weeks amid warning signals from several members of Congress.
"We have the support of most of the congressional leadership," an official said. But opposition is brewing, both privately and openly.

This would mark Congress' first battle with the White House over a Saudi arms deal since 1990. In that year, the House persuaded the administration of then-President George H.W. Bush to reduce a $20 billion defense package to $7.3 billion and remove the airborne early-warning and control aircraft and the KE-3 tanker aircraft.

Officials said the Bush administration has sent an initial notice that the proposed Saudi sale would be formally relayed to Congress soon, Middle East Newsline reported. They said the project would amount to billions of dollars worth of missiles, munitions and air defense systems.

"People of all political stripes have come out against this deal," a New York Democrat said. "It's mind-bogglingly bad policy because the Saudi's at every turn have been uncooperative. The idea that we are going to reward the Saudi's with precision weaponry is a stunningly bad idea, and clearly deserves the full review of Congress."
Officials said prenotification of the Saudi arms deal was relayed to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Nov. 13. They said Congress would consider the Saudi deal during the brief period before the House and Senate's Christmas recess.

"This week the Department of Defense provided Speaker Nancy Pelosi with an informal notification of its intent to move forward with a proposed $20 billion sale of high technology armaments to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia."
"This notice clears the way for formal notification to Congress from the Bush administration on or after December 4 of this year, or just as the current Congressional session comes to a close."

On Nov. 16, Congress obtained signatures from Democrats and Republicans to a letter that urged Bush to delay formal sale notification until at least Jan. 15, 2008. The letter said the extension would grant Congress the 30 days stipulated by the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 to "thoroughly review the sale."

Opponents of the Saudi arms deal have focused on the White House agreement to sell the Joint Direct Attack Munitions. A letter signed by nearly a third of the 535 members of Congress warned the administration that the JDAM sale was very dangerous.

Other components of the Saudi deal were expected to include the PAC-3 missile defense system or upgrades, the Littoral Combat Ship and advanced aircraft systems. Officials said Riyad was considering the purchase of 12 LCS platforms.

In July 2007, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the United States had begun negotiations with Riyad on a multi-billion-dollar arms sale package. Officials said the package would provide Saudi Arabia with new capabilities.
 
Last edited:

Incognito129

Banned Member
whether Bush vetos or not makes no difference as and when Congress decides to withdraw troops from Iraq, the Iranians will march in and saves the day and if the day comes the israelis will not sit around and watch its biggest enemy at its back door and do nothing about it. the reason for the sale of weapons to the saudis is to let them counter the Iranians first before the israelis makes a calculative move without consulting the Americans like what they did way back in 1981 when they attacked the Osirak nuclear reactor
Israel wont be making any sort of moves. They dont have the air power or missiles to do any sort of significant damage nor do they have the institutions capable of carrying out the logistics of an attack on Iran.

This has almost nothing to do with Israel but more the Saudi lobby and their trillion dollars.
 

Rossiman

Banned Member
Israel wont be making any sort of moves. They dont have the air power or missiles to do any sort of significant damage nor do they have the institutions capable of carrying out the logistics of an attack on Iran.
I beg a differ. Israel pilots are some of the best trained pilots in the world. They have more experience than most American pilots. They use what they got, and they use it good. Israel has been in neighboring wars for decades. The "6 day war", was a key example of there air power, or the fact that they destroyed Saddam's nuclear facility.
Israel could hold its own with Iran. I ain't even going to get into that. But Israels has thousands of bombs. They are aided with money left and right... it may not be billions of dollars. But it's enough money/equipment to make a stand.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Oh man.

You did not even try to address the problems Israel faces when it wants to hit a countable number of Irans nuclear program.

BTW, they get billions of military aid. And they have for sure thousands of bombs. And nobody denies the quality of their pilots and ground crews. But what does this has to do with their ability to hit Iran?

One last question.

How does it feel to use Aussie Diggers name and Avatar over at Tank-Net? :rolleyes:
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I beg a differ. Israel pilots are some of the best trained pilots in the world. They have more experience than most American pilots. They use what they got, and they use it good. Israel has been in neighboring wars for decades. The "6 day war", was a key example of there air power, or the fact that they destroyed Saddam's nuclear facility.
Israel could hold its own with Iran. I ain't even going to get into that. But Israels has thousands of bombs. They are aided with money left and right... it may not be billions of dollars. But it's enough money/equipment to make a stand.
Have you ever looked at a map? Or looked up Israels air-air refuelling capabilities? Or considered the difference between attacking Iraqs (then) single facility in the nearest part of Iraq, with surprise, & Irans much more distant & widely dispersed facilities, with alert defenders, & no safe route there & back?

It doesn't matter how many bombs you have if you can't get them there to drop them.
 
Top