US Navy News and updates

TScott

Member
ngatimozart is really becoming annoying.. m enjoying readying people’s thoughts and discussions on SSN.. people are generally excited by the outcome and want to immerse themselves in conversation with like minded people on this forum. To have the Australian away thread locked sounds like the power has gone to his head.
Lighten up I say!
ps… still think we are getting refuelled Los Angeles class subs till we build the ssnr… and I’m happy to say it again! X

@Tbone

You have been warned about this. I accept the situation is not helped by the press having flights of fantasy (the Idea the Australia would operate two classes of SSN each for a different country is exceptionally unlikely).

However, My gripe is not with that but the manner in which you approach the suspension of the thread and polluting this thread,

You are banned for three months as you have been warned repeatedly.

alexsa
I agree with your decision on his post, but you are way off with the “flight of fantasy” stuff.

Major, respectable publications in 3 countries is certainly enough of a basis for reasoned discussion. Posters aren’t fabricating this out of thin air.

Sounds like you are letting personal opinion get in the way here.
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
Discussion on the RAN thread about AUKUS delivering several older Virginia to the RAN while waiting for new subs to be built in Australia. Australia possibly stumping up/ contributing to infrastructure to assist the USN get 3 boats delivered per year. Wondering which of the existing boats might be slated for transfer?
At the time of the above post the RANV2 thread was not locked.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I agree with your decision on his post, but you are way off with the “flight of fantasy” stuff.

Major, respectable publications in 3 countries is certainly enough of a basis for reasoned discussion. Posters aren’t fabricating this out of thin air.

Sounds like you are letting personal opinion get in the way here.
True but over the last few weeks we have seen suggestions that:
1. Australia wil build Astutes in SA with a US reactor
2. Australia will buy the last two Astutes off the UK
3. Australia may look and refuelled LA's
4. Australia is getting Virginia Block IV ... and
5. A combination of the above.
A lot of this is from mainstream media as you note. Individually these suggestions may be reasonable but in combination they are contradictory or do not make any sense (i.e having both US and UK built platforms).

The leaking has not helped, in fact it makes the whole process look poor. I remember when the Hunter class was announced. Prior to that press oulets were reporting that the FREMM had it in the bag (have a look at the RAN thread ver 1.0).

The banning was for poor behaviour, the comment about press spectualtion was provided as mitigation of the behaviour (and was the reason the ban was only 3 months).

Hope that clarifies things
 

knightrider4

Active Member
Havent been on here for a long time. I think we all understand this is a professional level forum and there are rules to maintain the integrity of the forum. I remember quite clearly that not so long ago the mere mention of SSN'S for the RAN would be howled down by the very same people who have in the past and continue to moderate this forum. I have a simple solution why don't you ban all members except those with verified professional defence qualifications, end of the problem. I await Monday's announcement with a degree of excitement.
 

jack412

Active Member
Havent been on here for a long time. I think we all understand this is a professional level forum and there are rules to maintain the integrity of the forum. I remember quite clearly that not so long ago the mere mention of SSN'S for the RAN would be howled down by the very same people who have in the past and continue to moderate this forum. I have a simple solution why don't you ban all members except those with verified professional defence qualifications, end of the problem. I await Monday's announcement with a degree of excitement.
Early in my 14 year membership, I posted often. For many years this has been reduced to a few posts. Some, including myself, think this site is over moderated. Sometimes it's even hard just to read the forum and watch the action taken. Those moderating obviously disagree. I believe there is a professional, hidden section, where they can talk at a higher level. That standard on knowledge isn't available to most. I think the open forum, should be more open and tolerant of uninformed opinions. I agree that things said as fact, should be supported.
 
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HotCopper

New Member
12-year member here. I read the forums but don't post due to the heavy-handed moderation process. Imagine the amount of constructive discussion that could be generated if everyone felt comfortable posting on this site.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
12-year member here. I read the forums but don't post due to the heavy-handed moderation process. Imagine the amount of constructive discussion that could be generated if everyone felt comfortable posting on this site.
Plenty of other forum out there !
Begs the question, if it is so bad, why have you been here 12 years just reading ?
 

knightrider4

Active Member
I certainly don't want to speak for him but what I think he's alluding to, is its a good forum to gain information on a range of defence related issues but may not feel comfortable posting due to the level of moderation and the way that moderation is wielded.
 

RubiconNZ

The Wanderer
I’ve been a member of this forum for 17 years, the reason I keep coming back compared to other forums is the quality of posting and moderation. It makes it possible to read threads without having it feel like my eyes are bleeding. I appreciate the thankless task of “herding cats” the mods do.
I spend most of my time on this forum, just reading, and I’ve learnt a heck of a lot.

I too am very much looking forward to the submarine announcement.
 

TScott

Member
alexsa said:
You have been warned about this. I accept the situation is not helped by the press having flights of fantasy (the Idea the Australia would operate two classes of SSN each for a different country is exceptionally unlikely).

alexsa
I think in the near future the moderators need to accept the fact almost everyone posting on this forum hasn't experienced global geo-political issues like we are currently experiencing, certified defence pro or no certified defence pro...

Whatever your preconceived idea's of "fantasy" are now well and truly out the window.

There were dozens upon dozens of locked and deleted posts, relating to SSN's in Australia in the last few years, locked and banned posters regarding Australian Virginia Class subs and then banned posters regarding a dual class submarine fleet in Aus. You can add Australia and corvettes to this conversation as well.

I'm looking forward to a few retractions.

As per the below, Australia will be operating two classes of SSN (subject to congressional approval of the sale of the Virginia's). The USA Virginia Class and the SSN-AUKUS UK/AUS SSN(R) next generation submarine.

Official.

 
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aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I think in the near future the moderators need to accept the fact almost everyone posting on this forum hasn't experienced global geo-political issues like we are currently experiencing, certified defence pro or no certified defence pro...

Whatever your preconceived idea's of "fantasy" are now well and truly out the window.

There were dozens upon dozens of locked and deleted posts, relating to SSN's in Australia in the last few years, locked and banned posters regarding Australian Virginia Class subs and then banned posters regarding a dual class submarine fleet in Aus. You can add Australia and corvettes to this conversation as well.

I'm looking forward to a few retractions.

As per the below, Australia will be operating two classes of SSN. The USA Virginia Class and the SSN-AUKUS UK/AUS SSN(R) next generation submarine.

Official.

Seriously mate, you are making a fool of yourself. What was the media reporting 2 days prior to that as fact ?
This forum is moderated in the way it is for a reason, we deal with fact, and until officially announced it is all speculation.

If you want to endelesly speculate on Defence matters there are literally hundres of forum out there that do just that.

This forum does not, and for very good reason, if you do not like it, leave.

Another patheticaly childish post
 

TScott

Member
Seriously mate, you are making a fool of yourself. What was the media reporting 2 days prior to that as fact ?
This forum is moderated in the way it is for a reason, we deal with fact, and until officially announced it is all speculation.

If you want to endelesly speculate on Defence matters there are literally hundres of forum out there that do just that.

This forum does not, and for very good reason, if you do not like it, leave.

Another patheticaly childish post
Quit with the personal attacks, thanks.

Def Pro's on this site don't speculate when it suits you. 80% of every other thread on this website is pure speculation.

Here was the leaks from 5 days ago, all spot on.

 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
Perhaps this detail has not been announced yet but with the possible sale of up to five Virginia class submarines to Australia it would leave the U.S.N short unless production was dramatically increased ,I understand there is to be more investment in such facilities but not on the outcome for such in quantities, still devils in the detail await more details
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Quit with the personal attacks, thanks.

Def Pro's on this site don't speculate when it suits you. 80% of every other thread on this website is pure speculation.

Here was the leaks from 5 days ago, all spot on.

No personal attack at all, you are being childish, that is not speculation ;)

And other "leaks" in the same period said we would be getting the last 2 Astute's on the UK line, blah blah blah !

Like I said, you want to speculate endelesly, plenty of other sites around.

Now that it is confirmed you will no doubt be able to discuss to your hearts content based on what we now know as fact. That is the little key word you don;t seem to get "fact"
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Perhaps this detail has not been announced yet but with the possible sale of up to five Virginia class submarines to Australia it would leave the U.S.N short unless production was dramatically increased ,I understand there is to be more investment in such facilities but not on the outcome for such in quantities, still devils in the detail await more details
3 with a possible backstop sale of 5 in case the new subs take longer than expected. This is good risk mitigation.

US industry is likely to get an injection, also Australia is likely to play a role in those 3 US built subs. Australia has a whole submarine workforce not particularly busy, and this may mean the cancellation of the Collins LOTE. So some of the Australian workforce may go to the US to work on rotation. The UK may also be assisting in this, particularly in bottleneck situations.

The details are still forthcoming and there is interplay between AUKUS and other defence projects in the US and Australia and the UK. I don't think the US will be short anything. That isn't how the US operates.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It's good to see our stated concerns, being taken seriously.
Who says they are not ? But posting so called "I told you so" got ya comments and demanding the thread be opened because "I was right and you were wrong" is childish to say the very least !
Mods have a job to do, this forum is different to most others, and for reason. If you want to take part in endless circular speculation there are plenty out there that cater for that style, no one is forcing you to stay here.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
There a number of forums I no longer even visit because of poor moderation. I'm not referring to heavy handed mods, I'm referring to an anything goes lack of moderation.

Having to pick through page after page of excrement to find something worth reading just sucks the life out of most people, including me.

The other issue is sometimes because something untrue, or unsubstantiated, is not moderated, the lack of contest is taken as an acceptance of its validity. This is then referenced on other forums, maybe even picked up by an interested party and used as proof.

There are projects I've worked on that people are confidently stating things, that sound wrong to me, as if they are fact. It's been several/ten/twenty years so I need to think, check, refresh my memory, but then when I come back and say "hey that was not the case", "here are the facts, the references" I am often shouted down and told to suck eggs.

This site tries very hard to avoid that sort of thing. Even the defence pros and mods occasionally are asked to pull their heads in, egos, attitudes, things too close to the bone. This difference is, they listen, they tone it down, maybe take a break, that's what adults do, that's what professionals do, and that's precisely what regular members are given the opportunity to do.

Bans and suspensions happen for a reason, its never because the mods disagree with what is being said, it's how it's being said, and when a topic has been flagged and member requested to leave it be until further facts are available.
 
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