US Navy News and updates

[Redlands18]

Final design and technical review of future Constellation-Class FFG 62 frigate for US Navy

Artist rendering of final design and technical review of the Future Constellation Class FFG 62 frigate that is being developed by Fincantieri Marinette Marine for the US Navy.

www.navyrecognition.com

The FFG(X) final design seems to be set. It's also officially call FFG 62 Constellation Class. Seems the design did not change much from previous rendering. 32 Mk41 VLS and 16 SSM, which in the end shown more evolution Frigate from previous OHP Class.

Site Suspended - This site has stepped out for a bit

The 3rd Ship name has been announced as USS Chesapeake, do we start calling them the C Class yet?

 

[Ananda]

The 3rd Ship name has been announced as USS Chesapeake, do we start calling them the C Class yet?

C Class ? But it's so British..So RN..

 

[ngatimozart]

The USN has a flawed shipbuilding plan, so argues this author in the latest Proceedings, and he does have a point. The USN needs ships now, not 2 or 3 decades later, but the navy bureaucracy and Congress drags the process out. The navy also needs to decide on what it can build quickly and in large numbers. If you look at my post earlier in the the US Defence thread, that discusses the US industrial capacity and its ability to surge production of war material, you will see that it doesn't have the capacity to do so. So now the navy is in between a rock and a hard place. And it's just halted delivery of the Freedom Class LCS because of a design flaw in the ships transmission.

A Flawed U.S. Shipbuilding Plan to Counter China

The United States needs a sustainable shipbuilding program that is large enough to survive the inevitable political swings over such a long period in a democracy.

www.usni.org

New pods have been added to the MQ-9 allowing for it to conduct ASW and ASuW missions. Undoubtedly the USMC will be highly interested.

New Pods Will Allow Reaper Drones To Hunt Submarines And Launch Small Weapons And Drones

Recent tests show how the pods will enable MQ-9s to take on anti-submarine missions, but that's just the beginning.

www.thedrive.com

Another Proceedings article that suggests resurrecting an idea from the 1980s for sea launching of the MX ICBM. In this case scaling the pod down so that it can take most missiles in the US arsenal such as NSM, LRASM etc. Definitely worth looking at because its platform agnostic and can be utilised by anything from a patrol boat to a CVN. It doesn't need its own sensors because it ties into sensors from elsewhere, such as ships, aircraft etc.

Hail Hydra! Return of the Sea-Launched Missile

Reviving an old concept could improve the Navy’s long-range strike and antiship capabilities.

www.usni.org

Final Proceedings article from this month which argues for big guns being returned to the fleet. Not so much powder weapons but more EM weapons etc. Worth a read.

Bringing Back the Big Guns

Guns have been a mainstay of warships for almost 700 years. The gun revolutionized naval warfare, and mastery of naval gunnery led to the rise and fall of empires.

www.usni.org

 

[OldTex]

New pods have been added to the MQ-9 allowing for it to conduct ASW and ASuW missions. Undoubtedly the USMC will be highly interested.

New Pods Will Allow Reaper Drones To Hunt Submarines And Launch Small Weapons And Drones

Recent tests show how the pods will enable MQ-9s to take on anti-submarine missions, but that's just the beginning.

www.thedrive.com

With the integration of sonobouy pods and surface search radar (Leonardo Seaspray ) onto MQ-9B Sea Guardian UAS, three of the systems required for an unmanned ASW/ASuW platform are in place. The obvious system(s) that are lacking are those required for the prosecution of identified contacts. It may be that the MQ-9B platform will not have sufficient weight or performance margin for a single airframe to carry both the sensors and the weapons required. The other 'missing' element would be the necessary CONOPS for the employment of an unmanned ASW/ASuW platform.

It is worth noting that the Japanese Coast Guard are investigating the use of MQ-9B (with Raytheon maritime surveillance systems) to prove the concept of unmanned search and rescue, disaster response and maritime law enforcement missions.

It will be very interesting to see if this combination of systems progresses beyond the realm of good ideas. It won't replace manned ASW/ASuW platforms like the P-8, but it may just be one way of freeing up the high end platforms from lower end taskings or lower risk locations.

 

[ngatimozart]

With the integration of sonobouy pods and surface search radar (Leonardo Seaspray ) onto MQ-9B Sea Guardian UAS, three of the systems required for an unmanned ASW/ASuW platform are in place. The obvious system(s) that are lacking are those required for the prosecution of identified contacts. It may be that the MQ-9B platform will not have sufficient weight or performance margin for a single airframe to carry both the sensors and the weapons required. The other 'missing' element would be the necessary CONOPS for the employment of an unmanned ASW/ASuW platform.

It is worth noting that the Japanese Coast Guard are investigating the use of MQ-9B (with Raytheon maritime surveillance systems) to prove the concept of unmanned search and rescue, disaster response and maritime law enforcement missions.

It will be very interesting to see if this combination of systems progresses beyond the realm of good ideas. It won't replace manned ASW/ASuW platforms like the P-8, but it may just be one way of freeing up the high end platforms from lower end taskings or lower risk locations.

That's the interesting point. What happens when the satellite links go down due to enemy action? You can't process the data or prosecute an attack remotely via satellite. Will it be possible to control the platform from another platform such as an aircraft, bypassing satellites all together?

I also noticed that the Leonardo Seaspray 7500 Maritime Radar is to be integrated onto to the MQ-9B SeaGuardian. This is a widely used radar so will be a good addition to the platform.

 

[OldTex]

What happens when the satellite links go down due to enemy action? You can't process the data or prosecute an attack remotely via satellite. Will it be possible to control the platform from another platform such as an aircraft, bypassing satellites all together?

That is the 'fly in the ointment' for any UAS operating BLOS (with the exception of those which have an autonomous operation mode although that is limited to flight operation only). You have identified one area that is requiring further innovation and development. From an engineering and communications perspective this will be interesting to watch.

 

[ASSAIL]

That is the 'fly in the ointment' for any UAS operating BLOS (with the exception of those which have an autonomous operation mode although that is limited to flight operation only). You have identified one area that is requiring further innovation and development. From an engineering and communications perspective this will be interesting to watch.

I would have thought a contingency programme could be installed.
When links go down for any reason, vehicle returns to base using internal data?

 

[OldTex]

I would have thought a contingency programme could be installed.
When links go down for any reason, vehicle returns to base using internal data?

I would think an autonomous RTB facility would be included in the flight control system. The possible sticking point is that the platform would have to be certified for autonomous flight in controlled airspace (which is how I believe the MQ-9 is certified).
The US has already proven a SATCOM-esque communications capability in the BACN (Battlefield Airborne Communications Node) on the RQ-4 Block 20 and the E-11A. What I haven't been able to find is whether this alternative to SATCOM is narrowband (i.e. TACSAT) or wideband (i.e SATCOM). If it is narrowband only then BACN would not be viable as a SATCOM alternative to support MQ-9B operations. It would not have the bandwidth to support the flight control (bi-directional) and the backhaul of sensor data from the EO, radar or sonobouys. Again this is an area where the innovation and development will be interesting.

 

[John Fedup]

The Biden administration will no doubt make some changes to current navy plans going ahead. One area that should be protected and expanded is SSN/SSBN and consideration for new SSGNs given emerging technology threatening surface ships.

General Dynamics CEO Says Electric Boat Ready To Meet ‘Increased Demand’ for Submarines - USNI News

General Dynamics is equipped to meet the Navy’s “increased demand” for submarines, the company’s chief executive officer told investors on Wednesday. With a multi-billion dollar contract for the Virginia Block V program, the company’s Marine Systems business hit revenue records in Fiscal Year...

news.usni.org

 

[CB90]

The USN has a flawed shipbuilding plan, so argues this author in the latest Proceedings, and he does have a point. The USN needs ships now, not 2 or 3 decades later, but the navy bureaucracy and Congress drags the process out. The navy also needs to decide on what it can build quickly and in large numbers. If you look at my post earlier in the the US Defence thread, that discusses the US industrial capacity and its ability to surge production of war material, you will see that it doesn't have the capacity to do so. So now the navy is in between a rock and a hard place. And it's just halted delivery of the Freedom Class LCS because of a design flaw in the ships transmission.

A Flawed U.S. Shipbuilding Plan to Counter China

The United States needs a sustainable shipbuilding program that is large enough to survive the inevitable political swings over such a long period in a democracy.

www.usni.org

New pods have been added to the MQ-9 allowing for it to conduct ASW and ASuW missions. Undoubtedly the USMC will be highly interested.

New Pods Will Allow Reaper Drones To Hunt Submarines And Launch Small Weapons And Drones

Recent tests show how the pods will enable MQ-9s to take on anti-submarine missions, but that's just the beginning.

www.thedrive.com

Another Proceedings article that suggests resurrecting an idea from the 1980s for sea launching of the MX ICBM. In this case scaling the pod down so that it can take most missiles in the US arsenal such as NSM, LRASM etc. Definitely worth looking at because its platform agnostic and can be utilised by anything from a patrol boat to a CVN. It doesn't need its own sensors because it ties into sensors from elsewhere, such as ships, aircraft etc.

Hail Hydra! Return of the Sea-Launched Missile

Reviving an old concept could improve the Navy’s long-range strike and antiship capabilities.

www.usni.org

Final Proceedings article from this month which argues for big guns being returned to the fleet. Not so much powder weapons but more EM weapons etc. Worth a read.

Bringing Back the Big Guns

Guns have been a mainstay of warships for almost 700 years. The gun revolutionized naval warfare, and mastery of naval gunnery led to the rise and fall of empires.

www.usni.org

Been meaning to get to this one when I had a decent amount of time back.

The shipbuilding critique has some merits, but it's not really clear what the author is proposing as a solution. I'm entirely OK with the LCS freeze. Why we have both classes in service is porkbarrel defense spending at its worst. The main good thing to come out of it is the Marinette yard which can then be leveraged as an alternate shipyard for FFGs from the previous 2 main yards (Bath/Ingalls). Bottom line, yes, it's a problem, but the author isn't offering any insights to elegantly solve the problem. Probably because it's not an elegant solution, you don't regain industrial capacity without investment in infrastructure and people. He also doesn't give much consideration to Unmanned vessels either, as I see it, any rapid expansion in Western/Allied navies will absolutely require USV/UUV development. Getting enough qualified personnel is a challenge for every navy to fund.

MQ-9s for Sea Control is fascinating. Staging a whole bunch of those to cover littorals and straits would be an excellent way to free up valuable dedicated platforms like the P-8 and MH-60Rs to focus on prosecuting contacts that have firmed up in confidence as real submarines or threats. It would be a great way for the Army/AF/Marines to figure out how they can better contribute in the Pacific. As for the C2 problems, staging them in those littoral areas near shore based faciltiies could be a good way to mitigate the vulnerability of SATCOM links.

As for bringing back big guns...I don't think anybody has any real objections to the idea. The concept of an EM rail gun that increases gun range by an order of magnitude, goes hypervelocity, guided projectiles that can survive the stresses of doing all that....pretty much all good stuff. If you can make it work, which is where all the struggles have been so far. But once you can make it work, heck yeah why not?

 

[Boagrius]

As for bringing back big guns...I don't think anybody has any real objections to the idea. The concept of an EM rail gun that increases gun range by an order of magnitude, goes hypervelocity, guided projectiles that can survive the stresses of doing all that....pretty much all good stuff. If you can make it work, which is where all the struggles have been so far. But once you can make it work, heck yeah why not?

I've noticed a distinct silence emanating from US EMRG efforts in the last few years. IIRC barrel wear was a real stumbling block. Possibly not an encouraging sign?

 

[John Fedup]

I've noticed a distinct silence emanating from US EMRG efforts in the last few years. IIRC barrel wear was a real stumbling block. Possibly not an encouraging sign?

One positive from the EMRG program is the current development of the hypersonic projectile for powder guns, albeit at lower velocities.

 

[CB90]

I've noticed a distinct silence emanating from US EMRG efforts in the last few years. IIRC barrel wear was a real stumbling block. Possibly not an encouraging sign?

IIRC (and I'd seen open source stuff supporting it), long term barrel wear had been solved.
Short term wear (ie rapid fire) was the next unknown they were supposed to move on to in testing, but they were also getting slashed around that time.

It has been interesting to see lasers get more love lately when it was the other way around several years back.

 

[cdxbow]

Been meaning to get to this one when I had a decent amount of time back.

The shipbuilding critique has some merits, but it's not really clear what the author is proposing as a solution. I'm entirely OK with the LCS freeze. Why we have both classes in service is porkbarrel defense spending at its worst. The main good thing to come out of it is the Marinette yard which can then be leveraged as an alternate shipyard for FFGs from the previous 2 main yards (Bath/Ingalls). Bottom line, yes, it's a problem, but the author isn't offering any insights to elegantly solve the problem. Probably because it's not an elegant solution, you don't regain industrial capacity without investment in infrastructure and people. He also doesn't give much consideration to Unmanned vessels either, as I see it, any rapid expansion in Western/Allied navies will absolutely require USV/UUV development. Getting enough qualified personnel is a challenge for every navy to fund.

MQ-9s for Sea Control is fascinating. Staging a whole bunch of those to cover littorals and straits would be an excellent way to free up valuable dedicated platforms like the P-8 and MH-60Rs to focus on prosecuting contacts that have firmed up in confidence as real submarines or threats. It would be a great way for the Army/AF/Marines to figure out how they can better contribute in the Pacific. As for the C2 problems, staging them in those littoral areas near shore based faciltiies could be a good way to mitigate the vulnerability of SATCOM links.

As for bringing back big guns...I don't think anybody has any real objections to the idea. The concept of an EM rail gun that increases gun range by an order of magnitude, goes hypervelocity, guided projectiles that can survive the stresses of doing all that....pretty much all good stuff. If you can make it work, which is where all the struggles have been so far. But once you can make it work, heck yeah why not?

An article from ASPI about USN ship building The US Navy needs to admit it can’t outbuild China | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au)

 

[ngatimozart]

An article from ASPI about USN ship building The US Navy needs to admit it can’t outbuild China | The Strategist (aspistrategist.org.au)

That has been a problem for years, plus the lack of shipyards and qualified ship workers.

 

[SolarWind]

We shouldn't try to outbuild China. We should make advanced technology and strategy to outsmart and outgun them.

 

[76mmGuns]

I've noticed a distinct silence emanating from US EMRG efforts in the last few years. IIRC barrel wear was a real stumbling block. Possibly not an encouraging sign?

I don't think rail guns are needed for this. Current extended range shells have fins and guidance. 5 inch can go up to 80-100km. if they went to an 8 inch gun, with approx 100kg shells, the range with current technology would be, pro rata, 150-200km, no?

 

[ngatimozart]

We shouldn't try to outbuild China. We should make advanced technology and strategy to outsmart and outgun them.

Quantity has a quality of its own and technologically advanced ships take lots of time and treasure to prototype, and deliver in any numbers to the fleet. The USN has neither in abundance.

 

[swerve]

And sometimes trying to be cutting edge doesn't work, so if there's no less ambitious alternative underway you run onto the rocks. Zumwalt, anyone?

 

[John Fedup]

Zumwalt could still be a great ship with a big missile load and perhaps some lasers. The 78 MW IEP system has been debugged and is the future for naval propulsion and directed energy weapons. Zumwalt was a mission mistake.