Time for a New rifle/Small arms system

[Aussie Digger]

Most military rifle ammunition these days consists of a steel penetrator (core) with a copper jacket around the penetrator. I don't know of any ammo that uses a total copper projectile. Cheers.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Most military rifle ammunition these days consists of a steel penetrator (core) with a copper jacket around the penetrator. I don't know of any ammo that uses a total copper projectile. Cheers.

mate, there's the good old nail gun for carpenters.. you can load that sucker up with copper nails. that would hurt.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Indeed it would, there was a bloke airlifted to a hospital in Brisbane the other day who had been shot through the neck by his (former :eek ) mate with a nail gun... I figured that would upset your day quite badly...

 

[Awang se]

Steel core? I thought they use lead.

7.65mm is a powerfull and rather hard to tame bullet. That's why SLR in Malaysian Army can only fire in semi auto. They even replace the barrel with the heavy type and now they fulfill their role as support weapon instead.

 

[Aussie Digger]

SS109 (ie: NATO standard 5.56mm) rounds these days use a steel core. 7.62mm might still use lead, I'm not really sure.

 

[pezfez]

pak is getting the steyr-aug for the special forces for now, and has license to mass produce it at POF, slowly they will replace the g-3, but its gonna take a long (15 years, to start seeing it regularly) time considering the size of pak army and the training required.

and the type 95 is uses the nato round 5.56

i personally would stick with the ak-47 of ak-74, the nato concept of injuring does not apply in the pak-indo arena as an injured would never get the help from other soldiers or the med units

p.s has ne one seen the swedish ak-5, that thing is just plain slick

 

[Aussie Digger]

Never fear pezfez 5.56mm rounds kill just fine.

 

[Awang se]

i personally would stick with the ak-47 of ak-74, the nato concept of injuring does not apply in the pak-indo arena as an injured would never get the help from other soldiers or the med units

u might as well try it on yourself and see the result, if u survive.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

pak is getting the steyr-aug for the special forces for now, and has license to mass produce it at POF, slowly they will replace the g-3, but its gonna take a long (15 years, to start seeing it regularly) time considering the size of pak army and the training required.

and the type 95 is uses the nato round 5.56

i personally would stick with the ak-47 of ak-74, the nato concept of injuring does not apply in the pak-indo arena as an injured would never get the help from other soldiers or the med units

p.s has ne one seen the swedish ak-5, that thing is just plain slick

Type 95 use 5.8mm rounds developed by china, not 5.56.

AK-47 and 74 is reliable, i'll give you that. But it's also got a long list of con's
-Effective range is only up to 300m
-Bad kick
-Hard to fix when it jams(although very rare)
-Heavy
-The curve on the magazine makes it hard for carrying
-Hard to adjust the sights
-Shell can eject up to 4 meters

 

[Salman78]

G3 still soilders on and if it really needs to be replaced then just get the lighter M-16. We dont need somthing more expensive and fancy. M-16 is light, proven, cheap and reliable.

 

[Deltared075]

Actually a very good move for China to change it ammo to 5.8mm, even if in war, the ammo capture by enemies cannot be use because different size!

 

[Aussie Digger]

I seriously doubt the Steyr AUG would be more expensive than the M-16, for no other reason that if it was, Australia never would have bought it... There's an old Australian Army saying that goes along the lines of, "remember son, that weapon you're relying on to save your life was chosen because it came in as the lowest bid..." :roll

 

[pezfez]

i would think that the aug was pretty expensive just by looking at it, plus we paid for the local production, and no one else was gonna sell ne rifles for tot to us

seriously, i need an answer, what do u guys think of the swedish ak5, a cross between ak47 and m4 and is reliable, and dead sexy, pak should've went for these

 

[Aussie Digger]

Australia too manufacture the Steyr under licence. It was evaluated against and preferred to the M16A2. Can't say much about the AK5. Never heard of it before. Cheers.

 

[Awang se]

Australia too manufacture the Steyr under licence. It was evaluated against and preferred to the M16A2. Can't say much about the AK5. Never heard of it before. Cheers.

Same as Malaysia.

 

[zamrijf50]

ak5 is the swedish version of the FABRIQUE NASIONAL FN FNC ASSAULT RIFLE/CARBINE...chambered for the 5.56mm cartridge. :roll

 

[highsea]

Since no one has mentioned this, I thought I might throw this up here. This is the new US infantry weapon. I understand that at least one batallion in Iraq will be getting this around the last quarter of this year for field trials. So far the reports I've seen have been very positive. Anyone here seen this in person yet?

XM8 Rifle
The new U.S. Assault Rifle, the XM8, is a modular weapon that can be fitted with three different barrels (9", 12.5", 20".)

The 9" barrel is for a very compact weapon for tank crews or commandoes. With the nine inch barrel and the butt stock retracted, the weapon has an overall length of 21 inches.

The 12.5" barrel is the standard, for use with the assault rifle or, with the butt stock retracted, it serves as a carbine. The 20 inch barrel is thicker as well and used for the light machine-gun version. There is also a lighter 20 inch barrel for use by snipers.

The assault rifle can be equipped with the new M320 40mm grenade launcher.

The U.S. Army is happy with the initial field testing of it's new M-8 (or XM-8) Assault Rifle. One of the major design features of the M-8 that makes it superior to the M-16 is the way it handles propellant gasses. The M-16 has these gasses going into the receiver, depositing layers of crud from propellant that did not completely burn. The M-8 keeps the propellant gasses out of the receiver and this reduces the cleaning time by about 70 percent. The troops appreciate this. More importantly, the reduced amount of crud in the receiver greatly increases reliability (far fewer rounds getting stuck.) In fact, the M-8 is designed to fire 15,000 rounds without cleaning or lubrication, even in a dirty (like a desert) environment. Troops are not allowed to let their weapons go like that, but this degree of reliability makes it less likely that rifles won't jam in a sandstorm or after getting dropped in the mud. The M-8 barrel and receiver is also of more sturdy construction, making it less likely that the user will get injured if there's something in the barrel when a round is fired. This is not unusual in combat. All you have to do is accidentally jam the barrel into the dirt while hitting the ground or otherwise avoiding enemy fire, and then have to return fire. On an M-16, this can often cause the rifle to, well, blow up in your face. This unfortunate event is much less likely with the M-8.

The M-8 comes with a battery powered sight that includes a red-dot, close-combat capability, plus infrared laser aimer and laser illuminator with a backup etched reticule. The sights on the M-8, similar to those which have been showing up on M-16s over the past decade, make it much easier to hit something. The M-8 is better designed for "ease of use" and support troops who don't handle their weapons frequently will find that they can more easily hit something with an M-8. Tests, using people who have not handled a rifle frequently, have demonstrated this.

Because the attachment points for rail mounted devices are built into the M-8, the sight can be factory zeroed. The M-16, because it has rail mounting hardware mounted on it, requires frequent re-zeroing in the field. This is a feature very much appreciated by the troops. The attachment points allow additional sighting devices to be quickly added to the weapon. A new 40mm, single shot grenade launcher (the M320) will be available for the M-8 and can be quickly installed by troops, without special tools. The M-8 is designed for easy left or right handed operation.

Testing will increase, as more M-8s are available, and the plan is that by early 2007, the first of over a million M-8s will begin distribution to all troops in active and reserve army units. One thing that may slow this down is the army research on the use of a new caliber (6.8mm). The new bullet has shown to have better accuracy and stopping power. While troops would be carrying less ammo with the larger round (25 rounds in the current 30 round magazine), they would require fewer shots to take down enemy troops. American troops today are much better trained in the use of their rifles than they were four decades ago. Automatic fire is not often used, with accurate, individual shots being the norm. The M-8 rifle, and possibly a new caliber, are a reflection of that.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/XM8_Rifle.asp

-CM

 

[gf0012-aust]

So far the reports I've seen have been very positive. Anyone here seen this in person yet?

-CM

I'm attending a Land Warfare Conference at the end of September. There are rumours that it will be there. They generally do have gear like this available - especially the future weapons like personal and squad weapons.

Unfortunately no cameras are allowed in the venue except official photograpgers, so I won't be able to shoot anything inside the conf.

If there are static displays in an outside area I'll see what I can do. But this year everything is inside a huge exhibition centre due to security reasons, so I doubt that external displays will be there.

 

[highsea]

GF, I first came across this when I was reading about the M-25 and the new computerized airburst rounds.

This looks like a very nice weapon, and the 6.8mm round (.270) should be excellent, especially in a sniper role. I read a report from a reporter that was in Afghanistan. He commented that (from a distance) he could identify the US troops from the Al-qaeda by the fire. We were firing single shots, and they were firing full auto.

The US is becoming an army of marksmen, so the larger caliber makes a lot of sense, as it doesn't have the distance limitations of the 5.56. I think the loss of ammo will be more than compensated for by the more effective larger caliber, especially at ranges of 300m +.

I think the sniper version is to be fitted with an advanced telescopic sight. I don't recall who manufactures it, but it is supposed to be range and wind compensating. Next generation sights are expected to have the rangefinder built in (laser, IIRC), and will also compensate for the angle of the rifle to the target. This should reduce the need for a spotter, and eliminate the math on more difficult shots.

All in all, it sounds like some pretty sporty stuff!

-CM

 

[Gremlin29]

I had a Roberts .270 some years ago and I will say this, that was a very very flat trajectory round. I used it to bag woodchucks, and 600 to 700 meter shots were the norm. It appears that the version with snail drum and bipod will be utilized as a squad weapon?