The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Forgot to add… and do you know how this public debate and the scandal about the missile transfer began in Poland? “Winston Churchill” publicly thanked the Polish people a few days ago for these missiles that were transferred months ago, clearly on the down-low side, out of public space and very discretely. The genius of these people is beyond understanding by us, regular mortals.
 

Redshift

Active Member
I could be wrong, but I do not recall anyone suggesting that the Russian view is the only one that should be considered. I think the point is that it should be considered as a real view. I also think the point is that it has been considered as nonsense or bullshit for decades now and look where we are. I don’t think the EU or Ukraine were claimed to be existential threats to Russia either.

It should also be considered that their view may be:

[…]this weird desire to swallow the bullshit that “the west” spouts about NATO not being an existential threat to Russia, I can't begin to imagine how utterly stupid these people would need to be to believe that.... It is propaganda, an excuse nothing more.

No?
You are wrong and you either don't read rsemmes posts, or rather perhaps , you don't read the subtext that threads through almost everything that he says.

Also I don't believe for one second that it is. REAL view, it is an excuse to do what Russia are doing nothing more.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
An addition to what I said yesterday and the day prior. Today’s thoughts from Stanovaya, who knows some about Russia.

Some thoughts on the current situation around the war:

- Putin appears to believe that Russia is winning and will ultimately win the war. In his view, taking Donbas is only a matter of time. He seems ready to pay almost any price to achieve that goal because he sees it as an existential issue for Russia. Those who expect that increasing pressure on Putin will create more room for negotiations are likely to be disappointed. More pressure is more likely to lead to further radicalisation in Moscow and a stronger military response.

- Economic difficulties, which are becoming more serious, together with battlefield losses and the fuel crisis, are unlikely to make Putin reconsider his approach to the war. Instead, they are more likely to harden his position, encourage further escalation, and increase the risk of scenarios that many have previously dismissed as bluff.

- There is a growing gap between the political leadership and the rest of the country, particularly the business community, which increasingly wants the war to end. At present, there is little room for internal debate or for questioning Putin’s course. Instead, the leadership appears committed to further escalation, with no clear limits. This is likely to make these internal contradictions more acute over time.

- Ukrainian strikes inside Russia are strengthening anti-Ukrainian and anti-Western sentiment, making it easier for the Kremlin to justify further escalation. At the same time, Russian public opinion is divided. Some argue that the war should end roughly along the current front line, while others call for far more extreme measures, including the destruction of Kyiv, the use of nuclear weapons, and mass violence against Ukrainians. A prolonged war of attrition will further strengthen both camps.

- The year 2026 appears to be a particularly important stage in the war. For the first time, the cumulative effects of the conflict are having a visible impact on Russia’s domestic situation, raising questions about the state’s ability to continue functioning in the same way. This weakens Putin politically, but it also appears to make him more radical, contributing to a growing sense among parts of the Moscow elite that a catastrophe may be approaching.

- There is a strong and growing expectation that significant changes lie ahead. There is little understanding on what form they will take, who will drive them, or how fast they may begin. However, there is an increasingly widespread belief that, if the current war of attrition continues, Russia’s resources will come under growing strain, while the economy remains constrained and growing numbers of businesses become unviable. The overall conclusion is that two processes are unfolding at the same time: increasing external escalation and deepening internal contradictions. The West should be prepared for unexpected developments.

From her twitter: Tatiana Stanovaya (@Stanovaya) on X


Edit: Zelensky says the US is to send an emergency Patriot missiles package:

 
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rsemmes

Active Member
you don't read the subtext
"Yet it remains heavily dependent on Western financial assistance, military equipment and technological support while facing mounting domestic pressures of its own." Zalushnii.

"The civilian part of Ukraine’s budget for next year is entirely dependent on foreign support. Unlike the 2025 budget, however, there is no certainty regarding the sources of financing for the full range of needs. It is unclear what portion of the required external financing of $49.3 billion (43% of expenditure) the country can currently count on, and the situation is further complicated by the likely increase in spending during the year, as occurred in previous years."

Earlier this year, Ukraine’s defence minister, Mykhailo Fedorov, admitted that Ukraine has 2 million draft-dodgers and hundreds of thousands more who are absent without leave (awol).

That is the text, I will leave the subtext to your imagination.
 

Redshift

Active Member
"Yet it remains heavily dependent on Western financial assistance, military equipment and technological support while facing mounting domestic pressures of its own." Zalushnii.

"The civilian part of Ukraine’s budget for next year is entirely dependent on foreign support. Unlike the 2025 budget, however, there is no certainty regarding the sources of financing for the full range of needs. It is unclear what portion of the required external financing of $49.3 billion (43% of expenditure) the country can currently count on, and the situation is further complicated by the likely increase in spending during the year, as occurred in previous years."

Earlier this year, Ukraine’s defence minister, Mykhailo Fedorov, admitted that Ukraine has 2 million draft-dodgers and hundreds of thousands more who are absent without leave (awol).

That is the text, I will leave the subtext to your imagination.
Yes but what about that bloke 200 years ago who once did something that is is a bit like what's being done today that makes it totally unimportant to even mention what's happening today. I mean WHAT ABOUT or "what about", you can't forget about that you know .
 

rsemmes

Active Member
Yes but what about that bloke 200 years ago who once did something that is is a bit like what's being done today that makes it totally unimportant to even mention what's happening today. I mean WHAT ABOUT or "what about", you can't forget about that you know .
Happening today... Well, in June.

“People are racing ahead of reality… No turning point in any war has ever been recognized in real time… Of course not. That's nonsense. Turning points are identified retrospectively.” “Claims that Ukraine has achieved a decisive turning point and is now heading straight toward victory are largely nonsense,” he added. “In November, we'll probably return to discussing how to survive another winter,” he warned. Kuleba also said “there are really only two major unanswered questions in this war. First: Will Ukraine develop a ballistic missile capability that can genuinely threaten Moscow and other major Russian cities? Second: If that happens, will Putin be willing to use nuclear weapons in response?”
Dmytro Kuleba, former foreign minister of Ukraine. Russia Analytical Report, June 8–15, 2026 | Russia Matters

Do you consider him (and Zalushnii) a Russian propagandist, someone who has no idea what he is talking about (like William J. Burns) or is just that they (all three of them) are expressing only the Russian point of view?
If you don't like reality, just ignore it.


Talking about "Russian" point of view, even if this is an old one...

Yet structuring a peace agreement around land for security guarantees has not worked yet and is unlikely to work in the future. And it neglects to address the key challenge in ending any war, which is what political scientists call the credible commitment problem: convincing a belligerent that its enemy will really commit to peace. (That applies to both sides.)
An eventual deal must give Ukraine the means to defend itself and deter a possible future invasion while assuring Russia that Kyiv will not be a beachhead for NATO and will only try to restore its territorial integrity via nonmilitary means. And it means treating negotiations not as a barter of land for security guarantees but as the foundation for stable—if hostile—relations between Russia and Ukraine and, eventually, Russia and NATO. (So, it has to work for both sides; not for high horses.)
But the United States and Europe cannot credibly offer such (NATO would enter the fight should Russia reattack) assurances. (And attack Ukraine too, of course; if needed.)
Negotiating this kind of multilateral package will be extremely hard and time-consuming, especially given the complex threat perceptions, deep resentments, and decades-long disputes involved. (Again, for both sides.)
Samuel Charap and Jennifer Kavanagh. (They are the true "only Russia" I guess.)
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Samuel Charap and Jennifer Kavanagh. (They are the true "only Russia" I guess.)
Many (and some here) will tell you they are Russian stooges (or even assets). So is Stanovaya above (recently added to the terrorist list in Russia, likely as part of maskirovka)…and you should see (if yet haven’t) the reaction to Galeotti’s commentary on the Masha and the Bear nonsense (they even went for his wife, the whole nine yards)… and numerous others. Basically anyone with critical thinking abilities, backed by years of learning and (in-field) experience, but more importantly - an opinion that differs from the lemming train.

One of the leaders of the lemming movement on Zaluzhny today:

IMG_5843.jpeg

On Syrsky and Zaluzhny (and response from Tatarigami, who also lost his mind a bit over the Nazi loving that Poles are outraged about - though his Twitter account (his bio) used to be painted with Bandera’s pictures not all that long ago, so not really surprising):

IMG_5844.jpeg

Memory must be short with many (which I pointed out plenty before for similar reasons), but some must remember that every single article on the subject outlining respect among the troops for Zaluzhny and general dislike of Syrsky by the nickname of Butcher. Imagine being inside a lemming mind. I should also note that if you read the first sentence in his post above again, you will see that it makes no sense.

To someone expressing a valid concern (a concerned crab to boot, laughing):

IMG_5845.jpeg

The guy is joke, by the way, examples of which I provided here previously. But he shines once again. Basically a guy good with spreadsheets, having zero knowledge or experience in anything military prior to this war, somehow becomes an exemplary military analyst, economist, political analyst, etc. Basically you name it, Andrew has an opinion and will call rather widely respected people, pointing at idiocy of his opinions, retards and stupid fucks. Also, imagine how f-ed up one has to be watching thousands of videos of combat death 19 hours a day (by his own admission). And a bit about the newly respected expert in the field, back from 2022:


Like I said, it’s a cult, like Maga, covid crew, etc. Remember back in the early 20s plumbers farmers, other least qualified people, along with few qualified charlatans, providing medical advice, nonexistence of the disease, ivermectin and other useless meds, etc? People dying as a result? Now compare it to this cult and point out the differences.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
To follow up on the recent Crimea discussion:

IMG_5840.jpeg

People really do not understand how the Russian mind works. 50-60% of the usual flow simply don’t give an f about any of it and will send their kids to the (very elite and expensive, actually) camps in the allegedly besieged Crimea and go on vacation there themselves. Maybe the toilet looting is way too tempting to miss out on. And maybe this is the last chance to drive away with a free Ukrainian toilet before the AFU are back in Crimea.

An opinion, a follow up to his thesis of “weak Russia, torn by multiple competing factions, with nuclear warheads under contested control” being less dangerous than what it is now:

IMG_5846.jpeg

So the result of the collapse of the Soviet Union was 15 independent states. True. 4 had nuclear weapons stored on their territories. True. Some had no experience in having an independent statehood. Somewhat true, though it was the absolute majority of those states being in that situation and 3 of the 4 with nukes were as well (excluding Russia), that is. Then he says that in some of these states, there was a violent contest for power, for example in Russia, while other states had civil wars. This is false. None of the states that inherited the nuclear weapons had any of these events (Russia excluded). He also says that none of these events resulted in use of nuclear weapons. Ok, clearly true, especially provided the events he mentions had never happened. While these violent events only took place in Russia among the 4 states mentioned, Russia being the only one capable of controlling and launching the nukes (including those located on other territories), why would any of it result in launch of nuclear weapons? To where? And what does it have to do with geopolitics? With the real world?

Remember the efforts that were put forth by the international community and the USA in particular to make sure that there are no nukes in potentially failed states and/or under “contested control”. This political economist must have slept through all that. Funny enough, the guy is Russian, certainly lived in Russia through the times mentioned, yet provides nonsensical analysis, yet clearly believes that a use of nuclear weapons by Russia is as real as it gets in this environment.

To throw another guy in, a bit more known:

IMG_5592.jpeg

Let’s consider the absurdity of the situation. This is (allegedly) a representative of the “opposition” in Russia, that Prof Sonin cited above is likely a supporter of. He literally wants Russia to break apart into some small(er) states (most of which - all but two or three, really - have majority of population being ethnic Russians and a whole bunch more that identify like that). So what is he in opposition of? The answer is clear, it is Russia.

Now consider what people like that, belonging to the country any of you live in, are thought of there? Or on the international stage, for that matter, whoever is known. Then consider what the Russians think of the representatives of this opposition, living in the “west”, etc. These people are among the biggest helpers of Putin. Have always been. You have to be a complete idiot to think that any of this helps anyone (but Putin) and would result in some grotesque disintegration of the Russian Empire (a hint: there is none to begin with, it is just a country). These people help to shape and reinforce the view of a plot, or at least a goal, of erasure of the Russian state as such. It is completely counterproductive and serves no purpose. But the lemmings certainly like. I am personally amazed that these “pro-Ukrainians” are advertised and provided airtime. Again, they do the opposite of what the advertisers think they do. Or, in other words, with such friends, one needs no enemies, really (or with such enemies, one doesn’t need better friends). To each their own though, I guess.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Correction: I said in one of the posts above that Tatiana Stanovaya was recently designated as a terrorist in Russia. This is wrong. For whatever reason, I confused her with Maria Snegovaya, to whom it did happen a month or so ago. Just wanted to clear this up. Not that it changes the point and we can add any if the two or both to my post. Not sure why it clicked in my head just now, but here we are, I come clean (laughing).
 

personaldesas

Active Member
US Senator Lindsey Graham dies aged 71

Right after returning from Ukraine. Now that will cause some conspiracy theories about Russian assassination or Ukrainian false-flag.
 

personaldesas

Active Member
US Senator Lindsey Graham dies aged 71

Right after returning from Ukraine. Now that will cause some conspiracy theories about Russian assassination or Ukrainian false-flag.
it’s a bit like the gas pipeline all over again.

So which is it: (a) Russian assassination, (b) Ukrainian false flag, (c) Russian assassination staged to look like a Ukrainian false flag, or (d) Ukrainian assassination staged to look like a Russian attempt to pin a false flag on Ukraine?
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
it’s a bit like the gas pipeline all over again.

So which is it: (a) Russian assassination, (b) Ukrainian false flag, (c) Russian assassination staged to look like a Ukrainian false flag, or (d) Ukrainian assassination staged to look like a Russian attempt to pin a false flag on Ukraine?
Sounds like option e) the guy just dropped dead.



Regardless of the circumstances, there are certainly a few more names that come to mind that could “visit Ukraine” though.
 

Hoover

Active Member
it’s a bit like the gas pipeline all over again.

So which is it: (a) Russian assassination, (b) Ukrainian false flag, (c) Russian assassination staged to look like a Ukrainian false flag, or (d) Ukrainian assassination staged to look like a Russian attempt to pin a false flag on Ukraine?
you forgot (e) Urkainians did it and they didn´t think about public outcry in some countries (quite a few who are really angry about)
 

rsemmes

Active Member
"And it means treating negotiations not as a barter of land for security guarantees but as the foundation for stable—if hostile—relations between Russia and Ukraine and, eventually, Russia and NATO."
Even if a lot of people are a lot happier ignoring reality, usually from a high horse.

"It comprises several layers: the tragedy of peoples who lived for centuries within a shared historical space; a conflict between Russia and the West—a dispute over territory, alliances, historical memory and the future of the world order."
Obviously not, it's only Putin creating an empire.
"Politicians operate through will."
Wrong again, only Putin; Trump is completely different.
"I try to describe the world as a physicist: as it actually is, not as one might wish it to be."
Could he be more wrong than that?
"But Ukrainian security built on the permanent negation of Russia’s sovereign agency is equally unstable."
Wrong once more... Russia has to do what Ukraine says and, specially, what we tell Russia to do.
"Russia has defined its vital interests, possesses the material base to defend them and bears the consequences of its own decisions."
But, Russia is wrong, every other country is irrelevant. The Universe exists only to prove that Russia is wrong.
"A country stripped of strategic autonomy will eventually accept the rules of those who stripped it."
An honest an honorable principle.
"When one side concludes that the other is bluffing or simply incapable of carrying through, it stops seeking a solution at the table. This is not a justification for any particular use of force. It is a description of how diplomatic failure actually occurs: not through bad faith alone, but through the collapse of credibility on both sides. Understanding this mechanism is not the same as endorsing its consequences."
If we, the west, are winning, there is no point in telling Ukraine to negotiate.
"The war in Ukraine is, in Russian eyes, a war against the West as a whole, fought with Western money, weapons and technology. That perception shapes every decision Moscow makes."
How could Russia believe that!
"The roots of the conflict lie partly in a structural imbalance that persisted in Europe after the cold war: Moscow’s security concerns were heard but never seriously addressed."
No, it's Russia's fault. Nothing that we did has anything to do Putin's decisions. We are right, Russia is wrong, there is no other point.
"Its publicly stated terms have narrowed to three: recognition of the territories Russia now claims under its constitution; legal protections for Russian-speaking populations; and a formal commitment to Ukrainian neutrality."
Well, and the Russian Empire, of course.
"In practice, the war has become an instrument of prolonged pressure on Moscow. What security order should ultimately exist in Europe, and what place does Russia hold within it? This suits the West: the heaviest human and economic costs fall on Ukraine and Russia."
How do you dare! What is the point of asking difficult questions when it is obviously working? (Like in Iran.)
"A new European security order in which Russia is a participant rather than a managed object. An economically and technologically superior coalition sustaining an adversary’s army while limiting its own direct involvement will eventually give way to something else. The question is not whether that transition comes, but when and on what terms."
Difficult questions again?
"Any strategy that treats nuclear escalation as a manageable extension of conventional pressure rests on a false assumption: that a complex system can be pushed to the edge and stopped precisely where it is politically convenient."
But why can't we keep pushing the system?
"Not because globalisation did not exist but because it was never neutral. Sanctions showed this plainly. They were written by some, in the interests of some, and can be revised for others by political decision. A fragmented world in which each bloc builds its own rules."
Rules against Russia. (But only because Russia is wrong.)
"The choice for external players is not between a friendly Russia and a hostile one. It is between a Russia whose behaviour is predictable and one whose trajectory is unknown."
Wait, the point is that Russia is wrong, that has nothing to do with it.

Once you are in a high horse in your own fairytale... Why would you deign to look down to reality?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I'll try to do an update soon, but it looks like things are moving at least somewhat. Ukraine is continuing to gain ground in the Dnepropetrovsk area, solidifying control over Novokhatskoe and pushing into Poddubnoe (some sources have it under Ukrainian control). Russia on the other hand seems to be on the verge of taking Kupyansk completely, and eliminating the last Ukrainian footholds east of the Oskol. In Liman the situation remains murky with neither the fate of Russia's push into the town nor the fate of Ukraine's offensive in the north being clear. South of there Russian advances continue on Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, raising the very real possibility that the battle for those two cities will start this fall. Russian forces are still busy consolidating and clearing Konstantinovka, but there are already reports of Russian infiltrators reaching all the way to Druzhkovka. In the Pokrovsk area incremental Rusian gains westward continue, though still fairly slow. In Zaporozhye things have slowed down even further. Lastly in the Volchansk area it appears Russia seems to have regained the initiative and is aggressively pushing on Belie Kolodtsi.
 
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