The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[KipPotapych]

His argument is not different from mine many years back - Russia considers Ukraine a vital national interest and the west does not, so Russia will go further to prevent Ukraine from turning into a larger version of the Baltic states. Understanding this reality, advocating for Ukraine to fight until victory or death, is in reality advocating for Ukraine to fight until death. This might be advantageous to the collective west (hello Russia's narrative about "fighting to the last Ukrainian") but ultimately isn't actually good for Ukraine. Instead it's likely to produce a worse end result for Ukraine.

Basically this. Degrade the potential as much as possible while Ukraine is willing to accept the losses.

 

[Vivendi]

It's too early to make predictions on how this will evolve, and what will benefit Ukraine the most, long term. Taliban initially lost in Afghanistan, however, 20 years later they won the country back. NOT the same situation in Ukraine but it still illustrates how difficult it is to make predictions, especially about the future, and it also illustrates the importance of will to fight an intruder, and how one can win the war even if a number of battles are lost, again and again.

Economy remains key. The West won the cold war without firing a shot (against the USSR), still, the USSR collapsed in the end. So the outcome may not be decided on the battlefield.

Ukraine can still win if we keep supporting Ukraine until either Russia pulls out, or Russia collapses just like the USSR collapsed.

 

[Vivendi]

Russia will be degraded for a long time to come but long term the real danger to Europe and the US (and countries like SK and Japan) are not Russia alone but the combination of Russia, China and perhaps also NK and even Iran. That's why it is so frustrating to see that the US and many European countries are offering no or limited support to Ukraine. The long term implications of Ukrainian defeat can be vast.

 

[rsemmes]

It's too early to make predictions on how this will evolve, and what will benefit Ukraine the most, long term. Taliban initially lost in Afghanistan, however, 20 years later they won the country back. NOT the same situation in Ukraine but it still illustrates how difficult it is to make predictions, especially about the future, and it also illustrates the importance of will to fight an intruder, and how one can win the war even if a number of battles are lost, again and again.
Economy remains key. The West won the cold war without firing a shot (against the USSR), still, the USSR collapsed in the end. So the outcome may not be decided on the battlefield.
Ukraine can still win if we keep supporting Ukraine until either Russia pulls out, or Russia collapses just like the USSR collapsed.

You could have mentioned US in Afghanistan or even in Vietnam (and our support). Do you wish a 20 years war for Ukraine?
Yes, it is not the same situation, Ukraine is not a rugged terrain Third World Country, it is a western industrialized country. Yes, economy remains key, Ukrainian economy? The will to remain in a foreign country while there is a war in your country? What about an Ukrainian collapse? What about the "benefits" of the present?

Do you want Ukraine like Paraguay in the War of the Triple Alliance? You are making Jakub Janovsky's case.