Well it countered a equal number of Ukrainian drones in return. Honestly drones achieve alot even if any one does nothing itself. The shere quantity of them cause formations to be split. Defences to be abandoned armour to held back. Frontal assault suicidal as any form of suprise is almost impossible to achieve. And the pts levels of soldiers is probably going to be thru the roof. The stress and danger levels are basically like WW1 trench warfare as from all reports dosnt matter were you go you hear drones overhead
The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
rsemmes
Active Member
Really?
Do you remember what you said? I posted a snip to remind you what you said, you can always click to expand...
I posted:
"Zelenski is quite happy to keep himself "in the fight", after Robotine, after Kursk and for the next 3 years (talking to Tusk). To achieve what exactly, that is what I wonder. After Robotine and Kursk, he is going to get what?"
And then you go with "puppet state"?
I am talking about two failed military operations, what military solutions is Ukraine trying to implement when its situation is getting worse? Instead of keeping himself in the fight, he should be working to seat at the table right now (like... yesterday) and get as much as he can from his benefactors to achieve the better (actual) terms possible. Those are going to be worse now, in Istanbul, Putin was ready to return all of the south of the Dnieper area; I think it's too late for that now.
"Thats why they fight, even though they are losing ground. They don't want to be Russian."
The Torygraph: "100.000 young Ukrainians left the country in two months"
They don't want to fight. Zelenski already had that (not a Belarus-South) in Istanbul. Terms, not "maximalist initial positions"; what you actually get when you sign an agreement.
rsemmes
Active Member
Trying to what?
It is not about the "moral considerations", it is about the hypocrisy about those moral considerations. Ukraine blew up a dam, we point our finger at Russia for blowing up a dam.
See the difference?
rsemmes
Active Member
You saw the "broad terms" right?Well, in that case, the RU army should be in Kiev tomorrow.
The Istanbul terms were far worse.
Highlights:
RU keeps what it has
RU get those parts of territories it doesnt have, but claims (Donetsk, etc)
UKR is contractually obligated to never join NATO
UKR disarms
All sanctions against RU are lifted
These are not peace terms, they are surrender terms. Czechoslovakia 1938, again.
What can UKR do about it ? Kill enough Russians to make a difference (difficult). Do enough damage to the RU economy to make a difference (not as tough).
The west should enable UKR to defend itself, to put an end to Putins expansionist dreams. Just like we helped Nationalist China in 1941, South Korea in 1950, Britain in 1940, western Europe in the cold war, etc etc.
I don't think giving back 'South of the Dnieper' is "worse". (I may be wrong.)
Again, "We shouldn't confuse the initial statements with the actual terms of a peace agreement."
I guess that in your 1938, US is Poland, taking minerals instead of Teschen. No moral consideration, just facts.
Can Ukraine get enough Ukrainians killed (and out of the country) to achieve the collapse of Ukraine? We'll see in 3 years. How much damage can Ukraine take? How much money is Ukraine going to get? It does not depend on Ukraine.
Like the West should have helped Iraq from the US invasion? Should have helped Iran for the Iraqi invasion? Again, no moral considerations, just interests. Sorry, facts.
rsemmes
Active Member
You do realize that Ukraine is at the receiving end, right? Not us, not Putin.
A long way to any "death warrant" and, anyway, do you know if Trump is going to sign his "death warrant" over Ukraine? Are we, on our own? Do you see only one "death warrant", only one possibility? Care to explain to us what is that "death warrant" exactly. How long is going to take and if there's going to be any escalation?
(Just to remind you, I posted: "Reaction could mean many things." Meaning, I don't know what, but I know Putin will decide what, not Zelenski.)
Do you know who would replace Putin? Do you know what that leader would do?
Last edited:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #13,086
Another great example of the inherent unreliability of Russian official sources. They claim they've taken Sadovoye. If you take a look a the map, between Kurilovka and Sadovoye, this absolutely could be operational encirclement for Ukrainian forces on the eastern shore of the Oskol. However... no independent confirmation exists, and this appears to be fictional. Making things extra curious, this is an entirely probably direction for future Russian assaults meaning it's possible this becomes true in coming days and weeks. It just isn't now.
t.me
EDIT: On a curious sidenote, Russian forces are one small village away from cutting the MSR into Gulyaypole from the north. They do of course have the road along the front line westward, though it's not safe, and there are rural roads by which it's possible to get north-east, but they're in much worse condition. After the road is cut, I suspect we will see Russian forces push south-west from the Yanchur river line, and eventually close in on Gulyaypole. It's entirely plausible that the village will fall before the end of the year, putting the new front line somewhere around the Gaychur river line. The offensive has little immediate strategic significance, but if it continues in the same manner, it will reach the eastern outskirts of Zaporozhye some time in the middle of next year. Meanwhile it will be interesting to see if Ukraine can build a new major defense line along the Volchya river, since the current push if firmly south of it, or if they choose another location further north. Certainly construction work this close to the front lines would be difficult.
Colonelcassad
МО РФ сообщило об освобождении поселка Садовое к югу (!) от окраин Купянска. Ситуация в районе города продолжает развиваться неблагоприятно для ВСУ.
t.me
EDIT: On a curious sidenote, Russian forces are one small village away from cutting the MSR into Gulyaypole from the north. They do of course have the road along the front line westward, though it's not safe, and there are rural roads by which it's possible to get north-east, but they're in much worse condition. After the road is cut, I suspect we will see Russian forces push south-west from the Yanchur river line, and eventually close in on Gulyaypole. It's entirely plausible that the village will fall before the end of the year, putting the new front line somewhere around the Gaychur river line. The offensive has little immediate strategic significance, but if it continues in the same manner, it will reach the eastern outskirts of Zaporozhye some time in the middle of next year. Meanwhile it will be interesting to see if Ukraine can build a new major defense line along the Volchya river, since the current push if firmly south of it, or if they choose another location further north. Certainly construction work this close to the front lines would be difficult.