The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
He was in the KGB but whether was an agent per see is unknown to me. The fall of the Soviet Union, whilst celebrated in the West, was a very traumatic experience for Putin and countless others. It's what makes him tick and it drives his ambitions and his insecurities.
First off welcome to the forum. Second off, please stop spamming repeat posts. There's an EDIT button for a reason. Third off, please provide some of your own commentary and input for the materials provided. Merely spamming youtube videos is not a particularly valuable contribution.
cdxbow
Well-Known Member
And sadly the man has no vision of anything better.
Capt. Ironpants
Active Member
If you mean the little girl in the Lviv humanitarian center, I found that disturbing, too. One, involving small children and two, making these weapons in a "humanitarian center". The same people who talk about the Geneva Conventions and international law cheering for this? I hope they kept the really small children like her away from the flammable stuff. And I hope to goodness no molotov cocktails are ever handed out to kids.
Azov camp for kiddies (from UK Guardian):
I guess it's not child's play at summer camp now. This was posted four years ago, Makes one wonder where these kids are now.
Oh but he has. What's happening in the Ukraine now is unfortunately part of his vision to rectify certain things.
catullus76
New Member
I've been looking for English-speaking interviews on social media from actual soldiers on the ground whether they are foreign or Ukrainian who can give a better sense of the current situation. I've been mostly unsuccessful so far. Does anyone know of any?
reddit is one of the largest social media platfroms where you can have lengthy discussions and its very heeavily western and very heavily liberal and politically correct. But their embrace of Azov and other nazi groups in this conflict has been so quick its fascinating. on the biggest news subreddits and sub reddits that focus on military news, Azov's military actions are cheered and any mention of Azov being nazis are downvoted. Apologists pop explaining that the situation is complicated and that they make a small fraction of the Mauripol defenders.
Keep in mind that this is the very site, where being centrist on any political issue makes you a fascist, conservative, racist, etc. but actual Nazi military groups are apparently A ok as long as they fight for your side.
Now dont get me wrong, I totally see Ukraine's point of view, they badly need Azov, deadly trained fanatics who fight as if they have nothing to lose. But the people currently accepting Azov cannot comprehend how Plaestinians may align with hamas and how Syria accepts Hezbollah.
This whole Ukraine thing has been a fascinating study of human psychology and as a non aligned neutral observer its remarkably fascinating and scary.
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
Talk by Alexander Nevzorov in April 2021.
(Former long term member of the Russian Parliament, Film maker, Journalist)
11 Months ago he stated:
War with the Ukraine was inevitable.
The Russian Army is a paper Tiger which will be exposed.
The Ukrainians will fight fiercely.
The attempt to take Kyiv will fail utterly.
Russia will suffer a complete humiliation.
Pretty accurate so far, although perhaps the last prediction is to early to call as having come to pass.
For non Russian Speakers has English Translation.
(Former long term member of the Russian Parliament, Film maker, Journalist)
11 Months ago he stated:
War with the Ukraine was inevitable.
The Russian Army is a paper Tiger which will be exposed.
The Ukrainians will fight fiercely.
The attempt to take Kyiv will fail utterly.
Russia will suffer a complete humiliation.
Pretty accurate so far, although perhaps the last prediction is to early to call as having come to pass.
For non Russian Speakers has English Translation.
Just saw some great footage of K-300Ps being launched. The auto corrective thrusters firing to guide the missile was so cool from a technical perspective. A lot of videos being released for Kalibr strikes from naval vessels.
Do we have proper KIA numbers from these missile strikes, we have seen multiple barracks being hit and suffering heavy damages. Russia has launched a few hundred different cruise, and ballistic missiles so far in this conflict, and these things are very accurate. The post war analysis of the impact of these missile strikes will be interesting. Just how much damage to personnela nd instrastructre did these missiles do?
Do we have proper KIA numbers from these missile strikes, we have seen multiple barracks being hit and suffering heavy damages. Russia has launched a few hundred different cruise, and ballistic missiles so far in this conflict, and these things are very accurate. The post war analysis of the impact of these missile strikes will be interesting. Just how much damage to personnela nd instrastructre did these missiles do?
GermanHerman
Active Member
What does "Agent" mean to you?
He was officialy the liaison officer between GDR intelligence and KGB.
The GDR Intelligence ran covert operations out of Dresden with undercover spies in the GFR. One of these operatives was Matthias Warnig who met Putin allegedly in Dresden prior to its departure to Düsseldorf from 86 to 89. Warnig is still part of Putins entourage which indicates that Putin did infact had some involvemend in the operations outside of the GDR.
Besides that there are a lot of rumors but not much substantiated. An anonymous source claimed to be member of the thrid generation RAF claims Putin was present during meetings in Dresden and that the Herrhausen assassination was done on order of the MfS/KGB.
Although the Herrhausen assassination reeks of involvemend of intelligence services and for that matter the entire work of the third generation of the RAF, I find this unlikely to be the case although not Impossible.
I don't put much faith into the whole RAF story but apparently at least two different authors have talked to the same person and are citing it.
After his mission to germany he kept working for the KGB / FSB while at the University of St Petersburg and propably up untill at least becoming involved in politics but this is once again very foggy and unclear.
The fall of the USSR was celebrated not mainly "in the West" -- the Baltics, Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, etc, was where the real celebration took place. They were in general very happy to leave the Russian empire. Their main motivation for insisting on joining NATO was because they did not trust Russia to not include them in a new empire again, and that was something they definitely did not want to happen again. That's why they joined NATO.
Interesting letter: UK defence attache to Moscow says they warned London about Putin, many years before February 24 2022, and also before 2014:
"Extraordinary letter in @ft from former UK defence attaché at Moscow embassy https://t.co/E4UPTu98yl" / Twitter
Jon Shchindler on Putin, the Ukraine war, and religion:
Putin’s Attack on Ukraine Is a Religious War
Russia’s aggression against its neighbor isn’t just power politics and geostrategy, it’s about core issues of faith and identity
topsecretumbra.substack.com
Putin Admits His Attack on Ukraine is a Holy War
It’s always helpful when the Kremlin says the quiet part out loud from the very top
topsecretumbra.substack.com
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Someone actually engaged in espionage or counter espionage as opposed to a member of an intelligence organisation who has different roles, be it in administrative or analysis.
I don't know what "mainly" and "real" signify in this context but it was also seen as a victory and celebrated in the West.
There was a lot to celebrate; "good" had triumphed over "evil"; the possibly of a nuclear exchange had been averted and it was supposed to have ushered in a new period of peace and stability.
They also wanted membership because that would integrate them closer to.the West and there would be economic advantages as well... It wasn't solely due to Russia. Also, during that period there was little immediate thought or concerns about a resurgent Russia as the main concern was in other areas, namely economically.
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Taking a different perspective to this war , How is this being portrayed in the Russian Orthodox churches in that country, there was only a few years ago a schism between Ukraine and Russian churches over events, the Russian Patriarch Kirrill had even justified the present actions
www.ncronline.org
Ukraine War: The role of the Orthodox Churches | DW | 09.03.2022
Does the pulpit in Russia follow the same line as state media?
Russia's Patriarch Kirill defends invasion of Ukraine, stoking Orthodox tensions
Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill, leader of Russia's dominant religious group, has sent his strongest signal yet justifying his country's invasion of Ukraine — describing the conflict as part of a struggle against sin and pressure from liberal foreigners to hold "gay parades" as the price of admi
www.ncronline.org
Does the pulpit in Russia follow the same line as state media?
Wrong -- EU is the economic dimension. NATO is military. There was also "immediate thought and concern about a resurgent Russia" in Eastern Europe. Not in "the West", but in "the East". They knew the Russian culture and mentality too well, and did not trust Russia at all. They were right.
As for the "celebration" part. I was in "the West" at that time, and I am not aware of any major celebrations in the West. In Eastern Europe on the other hand people were extremely happy to be free, and they were celebrating all over.
I'm aware of what NATO is and the distinction with the EU but thank you for explaining. NATO membership would have led to many key advantages and various forms of cooperation; not only against Russia per see. Together with other memberships and forms of cooperation; NATO membership would have integrated those countries closer to the West.
I was also in the West at that time and when I said "celebration" I was not referring to masses in the street streets "celebrating" but "celebration" on the part of the political elite, policy makers and the military in the West. The next conversation I'll make sure to use more appropriate words in words so they can't be misconstrued or misunderstood.
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NATO membership also comes with many obligations. So the main motivation for becoming NATO member is for the protection it offers, not "integration with the West". EU provides already more than enough of such integration.
There are also other organizations besides NATO and EU, that can help "integrate with the West" as I am sure you are aware.
GermanHerman
Active Member
He was definitly involved with espionage, that much is certain.
He started out doing undercover counter intelligence work in 1975 untill he was send to Dresden where he was doing more administrativ work as liaison officer but still retained some operational work.
Dresden was also not that unimportant as it is described as a hub for smuggeling antiquities and funds out of the GDR in exchange for technoligie from the west.
Stasi sources claim that Putin was activly involved in this without giving specifics.
As stated, Warnig was an operative undercover in the west who was also involved in this and who is evidently a friend of Putin so it seems credible that Putin was involved in actual espionage work during his time in the GDR. Some authors claim that Putin aquired agents within the stasi for the KGB and some state Warnig was one of them. For context: Warnig became seputy head of the Stasi’s information and technology unit by 1989 and was not just some operative. He now is involved with Nordstream and russian Gas. Numerous sources also claim Putin was activly recruiting assets for the KGB but the accounts on how many and of what quality those assets were once again varies widely. Putin himself claims he only ever recruted two people and then gave up while others state that he was involved in honey trapping potential targets from the west. Still, even if he only recruited two assets I think this falls into the espionage category as its rather hands on and not done from behind a desk.
Vladimir Usoltsev, who was his colleague in Dresden claims on the one hand that they spend most of their time behind desks but on the other says they were involved with the "illegals". It's unclear how reliable Usoltsev is but he was undeniable close to Putin during that time.
Putin also was involved in an attempt to build a stay-behind kind of network of former Stasi and KGB assets / agents in 89-90 which I would also consider to be a covert operation / field work. This is known because this network was found by the Verfassungsschutz after a keymember defected.
After going back to russia he clearly also worked undercover at the univeristy of Leningrad.
We dont know a lot of the specifics and while Putin himself and most sources from the intelligence community state that he was only doing very mundane stuff and was not very important it is clear he engaged in actual field work.
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