The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[rsemmes]

Except that Putin's demanding Ukrainian withdrawal from a much larger area as the price of a ceasefire, in advance of a peace agreement. Given his record, it's hard to imagine him agreeing to give up areas he's been claiming for the last four years, once he got control of them.

"The objective is to move beyond political rhetoric..." or maximalist initial position and start actual negotiations. What was Putin willing to give up in 2022?

 

[rsemmes]

I would add that a peace agreement with Vladimir is about as reliable as one with Adolf.

As reliable as the Minsk accords and our good faith? Or as Nixon in Vietnam and towards South Vietnam?

 

[Feanor]

Except that Putin's demanding Ukrainian withdrawal from a much larger area as the price of a ceasefire, in advance of a peace agreement. Given his record, it's hard to imagine him agreeing to give up areas he's been claiming for the last four years, once he got control of them.

No he isn't... he's demanding withdrawal from the rest of Donetsk region. It seems that Russian leadership is willing to settle for that kind of end to the war. Obviously the details require working out but territorially Ukraine is already worse off than they would have been had they taken the Anchorage deal.

Putin has broken every single treaty regarding the borders and souveranity of Ukraine. I think the reliability of any treaties signed by Putin/the Russians will be seen critical by the Ukrainians. I can fully understand that the Ukrainians want to get security guarantees. And better ones than 1994.

Well whether Ukraine can get security guarantees and how reliable they are really isn't up to Putin. Again, details would have to be worked out, but based on previous negotiations it seems Russia doesn't object to Ukrainian EU membership. At the end of the day if the west wants to provide strong, credible, and binding security guarantees, they don't have to be tied to treaty between Ukraine and Russia, ending the war. I think it would be wiser if they weren't.

 

[deyhere]

He said that equipment is not enough without training & maintenance, knowing how to use it, & being able to look after it. He did NOT say "more than 50 countries planning counter offensive against Russia".


You said "i will bet my last that most of these production lines you mention are being manned by westerners, if not Ukrainians will steal all of the money and nothing will be done."

Not "might be". The way you said it, you were claiming it as a fact. And you lied about what you said, although the evidence is here for all to see.

Stop telling lies.

This is English. you supply equipment, training, targeting, internet, maintenance, etc. and you have to train them to use it in a combined way according to Blinkin.. if this is not planning the offensives, what is it, just support? remember he said Austin put together 50 countries that are supporting Ukraine in this way and the goal is to see Ukraine get back some of the land they lost in the last 15 months, according to Blinkin.
it really sounds like planning the offensive for Ukraine.


i said i will bet my last. i used the word bet, in case you missed that one, if i was so sure i won't use bet, i will just make my statement like i have done with other things i have said. there is no need to lie