The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[STURM]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/europe/students-allege-racism-ukraine-cmdintl/index.html

Whilst it's understandable that Ukrainian security personnel would want to prioritise their own nationals, the treatment some non white foreign students and workers have received is unacceptable. There is clear footage of foreign students not being allowed on a train and having to make way for a Ukrainian girl and of other students being manhandled at the Polish border. Another incident saw foreign nationals having a gun pointed at them.

Meanwhile the Ukraine has announced that it will be accepting foreign volunteers [like it has in the Donbass for the past few years]. I hope there's proper vetting or it could counter productive if the wrong type of volunteers are accepted - those over a certain age group, there for an adventure or there for ideological reasons. We've seen in the Congo, Biafra, Iraq and other places what happens when the wrong type of volunteers show up.

 

[cdxbow]

He might be in his mind to some extent, but I wonder what kind of info he gets. There are various people in his inner circle that can probably influence and manipulate him. It can even be (a bit of conspirology) that someone persuaded him to proceed with war to get rid of Putin in this way by presenting him as an unpopular crazy murderer, not as “a father of the nation”

Advisers to autocrats tend to be yes men, sycophants and grifters, none of which are likely to give good advice. Another area autocrats do really badly is succession planning, they tend to do the opposite! I don't think it's his advisers who have pushed this, I think this is basically his doing. We can only speculate why.

I'm not sure about the thousands of lost souls. Many Russian vehicles are coming up abandoned, with or without damage, not destroyed. It seems that the biggest failure here is Russian vehicle evacuation services. They're traditionally bad in the Russian armed forces (there was an attempt made to address this over the last GPV but it was rather half-hearted). Not only are there not enough modern evacuator vehicles, but they very organizational structures are insufficient. Even with some lone destroyed vehicles we can't be sure if they were taken out in combat or burned by locals after being abandoned. I suspect the question of Russian losses will be a messy one for a long time to come with no clear answers. The days of the 5-day war when Russia just published a complete list of their KIA are sadly long gone.

By now the death toll must be in the thousands. Over 450 vehicles have been destroyed on both sides. I take your point about a 'lost' vehicle may not of necessarily have lost their crew.
Neither side is very forth coming about casualties.

 

[Arji]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/europe/students-allege-racism-ukraine-cmdintl/index.html

Whilst it's understandable that Ukrainian security personnel would want to prioritise their own nationals, the treatment some non white foreign students and workers have received is unacceptable. There is clear footage of foreign students not being allowed on a train and having to make way for a Ukrainian girl and of other students being manhandled at the Polish border. Another incident saw foreign nationals having a gun pointed at them.

Meanwhile the Ukraine has announced that it will be accepting foreign volunteers [like it has in the Donbass for the past few years]. I hope there's proper vetting or it could counter productive if the wrong type of volunteers are accepted - those over a certain age group, there for an adventure or there for ideological reasons. We've seen in the Congo, Biafra, Iraq and other places what happens when the wrong type of volunteers show up.

Did they delete the article? I can't access that link.

 

[Feanor]

By now the death toll must be in the thousands. Over 450 vehicles have been destroyed on both sides. I take your point about a 'lost' vehicle may not of necessarily have lost their crew.
Neither side is very forth coming about casualties.

Total death toll, yes. I'll publish whatever casualty info I can come across. The entire Donbass War had only a little over 10 000 dead, and that's with months of heavy fighting in the '14-'15 campaigns, and includes all the civilians too. Let's see what happens with the battle for Kharkov. That one will show what is to come for Kiev, and likely show whether we can expect mass civilian casualties. I'm hoping not.

 

[Rob c]

Putin calls the Ukrainian government Nazis,

Putin's big problem with calling the Ukraine government "Nazis" is that it's president is a JEW, with both mother and father being Jewish. No Jewish person would have a bar of the Nazis .

 

[Feanor]

Update.

Kiev.

Territorial defense in Kiev.

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Around Kiev.

Fighting took place in Borodyanka, as Russian troops blocked Kiev from the north-east. It looks like there's some destroyed Russian trucks and a destroyed BMP-1, almost certainly Ukrainian.

Colonelcassad

Последствия происходивших вчера боев в Бородянке Киевской области Последствия боевых действий между российской армией и киевскими силовиками в городе Бородянка западнее Киева. Видна, как минимум одна подбитая БМП-1 ВСУ. @anna_news

t.me

Battle damage in Vasil'kov, Kiev region.

Colonelcassad

Васильков, Киевская область

t.me

Another "Russian infiltrator" who was found out because he had Russian news apps on his phone.

Colonelcassad

Черкассы, очередной диверсант. Человека просто за переписку скрутили. Что с ним далее - непонятно.

t.me

Approximately 2000+ Russian vehicles were spotted west of Kiev by satellite.

Colonelcassad

На спутниковых снимках от Maxar Technologies запечатлена концентрация российской бронетехники к западу от Киева. Длина колонны по данным Maxar составляет 64 км (!). Давайте посчитаем: возьмём длину условного «Камаза» в 7 м. Поставим усредненный интервал между военной техникой в 20 метров...

t.me

Russian SpN near Kiev.

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vk.com

There's still no confirmation on the fate of the An-225. It may or may not have been destroyed.

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Kharkov-Sumy.

The Kharkov city administration building was hit by an airstrike. It was apparently a gathering spot for Ukrainian territorial defense (and Azov members), and the building had munitions stored in it.

Colonelcassad

Сообщают об авиаударе рядом с Харьковской ОГА. https://t.me/mikayelbad/10863

t.me

Colonelcassad

⚡️ Первые кадры после авиаудара по Харьковской обладминистрации.

t.me

Colonelcassad

Еще одно видео с последствиями удара по центру Харькова. В 10.00 по местному времени тут официально объявляли свой моб. сбор нацисты из "Азова"

t.me

Colonelcassad

Видео изнутри Харьковской обладминистрации. Причитания о русском мире. А это не русский мир. Это ваш, он просто с Донбасса вернулся.

t.me

Colonelcassad

Фольксштурм Харькова в Харьковской ОГА.

t.me

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vk.com

Something being burned at a military commissariat in Kharkov, probably documents.

Colonelcassad

Харьковчане говорят: что-то жгут в военкомате Московского района.

t.me

Shelling in Kharkov.

Colonelcassad

Артиллерийский обстрел в Харькове. #Россия #Украина #Харьков @rybar *Проект некоммерческий. Реквизиты для помощи: 4276 1609 2223 7798.

t.me

Battle damage in Kharkov.

Colonelcassad

Харьков сейчас. Центр. Площадь пяти углов.

t.me

Colonelcassad

Харьков, Маршала Бажанова

t.me

Colonelcassad

Харьков, Рымарская

t.me

Allegedly Ukraine suffered 70 KIAs from the strike on Akhtyrka.

Colonelcassad

Пишут, что во время вчерашнего удара по воинской части в Ахтырке, упокоили сразу около 70 ВСУшников. Информация исходит от мэра Ахтырки и местных украинских источников.

t.me

Zaporozhye-Dnepropetrovsk.

A Ukrainian Tochka struck Melitopol'.

Colonelcassad

ВСУ бьют по частному сектору в Мелитополе. Такой подарок обнаружили жители в своём огороде. Мелитополь, напомним, находится под контролем ВС РФ. @opersvodki

t.me

Kherson-Nikolaev-Odessa.

Russian troops in Kherson.

Colonelcassad

Российские военнослужащие на улицах Херсона. #Россия #Украина #Херсон @rybar *Проект некоммерческий. Реквизиты для помощи: 4276 1609 2223 7798.

t.me

Colonelcassad

Херсон. Шуменский район . Сейчас 1 марта . 8:30 утра.

t.me

Colonelcassad

Мы знаем, что нас читают в Херсоне, где сейчас продвигаются российские подразделения. Поэтому в очередной раз напомним про памятку для мирного населения, соблюдение которой поможет избежать бессмысленных жертв. Мирные граждане Украины, если не успели добраться до убежищ, сидите дома. Не надо...

t.me

Colonelcassad

Армия России вошла в Херсон.

t.me

Colonelcassad

Украинские и российские телеграм-каналы распространяют информацию о том, что российская армия вошла в Херсон. @Caucasian_bureau

t.me

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vk.com

Russian troops detain someone in Kherson.

Colonelcassad

Российские военнослужащие задержали подозрительного человека на улице в Херсоне. Мирные граждане города, не показывайтесь на улицах. При виде любых военнослужащих выполняйте их указания. #Россия #Украина #Херсон @rybar *Проект некоммерческий. Реквизиты для помощи: 4276 1609 2223 7798.

t.me

Old footage from the first day of a Ukrainian column getting shelled near Kherson.

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vk.com

Mariupol'.

More footage of the two T-80BVs, Ukrainian, lost near Gnutovo.

Colonelcassad

⚔Деревня Гнутово. Здесь шёл бой. Два подбитых украинских танка, отступая, не доехали 25 км до Мариуполя. Знищено! – так выражаются любители виртуальной перемоги.

t.me

A destroyed MT-LB, allegedly Ukrainian, near Shirokino.

Colonelcassad

Сожженная МТ-ЛБ укров в Широкино. Когда фоткали была ещё тёплая. Сейчас наши заняли Бердянское, посёлок под Мариком с восточного направления.

t.me

Rebel forces near Mariupol'.

Colonelcassad

На Мариуполь

t.me

Ukrainian SP Arty battery in Mariupol'.

Colonelcassad

МТЛБ и 2 САУ ВСУ в городской черте Мариуполя. https://t.me/voenkorKotenok/31582

t.me

LDNR Front.

Battle damage in Schastye, allegedly from Ukrainian shelling of rebel troops after they took the town. I'm skeptical of the claims, we have footage of rebels shelling the town prior to their assault on it. At least some of the battle damage comes from them. Possibly all of it.

Colonelcassad

Последствия обстрелов украинскими войсками города Счастье

t.me

Colonelcassad

ПОСЛЕДСТВИЯ ОБСТРЕЛОВ УКРАИНСКИМИ ВОЙСКАМИ ГОРОДА СЧАСТЬЕ. ЧАСТЬ 2

t.me

Shelling of Donetsk and Gorlovka continues.

Colonelcassad

Горловка. Последствия попадания украинских снарядов по ул. Кирова, 28, ул. Кирова, 26. В результате обстрела одна из жительницы получила контузию. ФОТО 1 и 2. Также осколочные ранения в результате попадания снаряда по ул. Дубинина, 6 получили двое горловчан. Госпитализированы. Последствия...

t.me

Rebel forces have allegedly taken village Kremennaya north-west of Severo-Donetsk, threatening encirclement to the troops there.

Colonelcassad

Предвестник нового "котла" Глава ЛНР Леонид Пасечник заявил об освобождении силами ЛНР населённого пункта Кременная. Ранее на этом направлении были последовательно освобождены Старобельск, Новая Астрахань и Епифановка. Таким образом, группировка противника в населённых пунктах...

t.me

Allegedly Ukrainian POWs in LNR hands.

Colonelcassad

Украинские военные, сложившие оружие. Видео НМ ЛНР

t.me

Ukrainian POWs in Donetsk taken to the Alley of Angels, a memorial site for local children killed in the war.

Colonelcassad

В ДНР сегодня пленных военнослужащих ВСУ отвели на Аллею ангелов — мемориал, установленный в память о 91 ребёнке, погибшем за 8 лет на территории Донбасса. @opersvodki

t.me

Misc.

The OSCE mission is leaving the Donbass.

Colonelcassad

В ДНР подтвердили, что 43 автомобиля ОБСЕ с "личным составом" сегодня покидают территорию республики (фиксировать обстрелы Донецка и Горловки уже не так интересно, да). Ждем отбытия этих клоунов из ЛНР.

t.me

Colonelcassad

Миссионеры ОБСЕ покинули ЛНР. Две недели они болтались без дела, хаотично передвигаясь по городу без какой либо цели. По сути, киевский офис кинул своих сотрудников, мандат не продлили и … дружная колона беленьких бронированных «крузаков» выдвинулась на территорию, внимание (!) страны...

t.me

There are unconfirmed reports that Russian prison facilities at IK-1 (Zverevo) and the Taganrog jail are being emptied of prisoners in anticipation of Ukrainian POWs.

Colonelcassad

По нашей информации, Таганрогское СИЗО начали перепрофилировать под лагерь для пленных военнослужащих ВСУ. То же самое происходит и в ИК-1 в приграничном городе Зверево. Всех ранее содержавшихся под стражей переводят в другие исправительные учреждения Ростовской области. Пленных украинских...

t.me

Ukraine confirmed losing 6 pilots in this war. Presumably 2 Su-27s downed, 2 Su-25s downed, and 2 people on the lost An-26?

Colonelcassad

На 1 марта Украина подтвердила уже 6 погибших пилотов. Ни одной фотографии и видео сбитых российских самолетов (из заявленных 27) по-прежнему не представлено. Украина смогла верифицировать лишь уничтоженный украинским ПВО свой собственный Су-27 и уничтоженную украинскими же военными "Мрию".

t.me

Locals have stolen? a Russian BTR-82A.

Colonelcassad

«Мы ⡅⢠⠑⠙⡅⠤. ⠃⠤⠱⠢⠅⠋⢃⠘ БТР мля» Гражданские увели брошенную бронемашину. Принадлежность машины не установлена

t.me

Russian T-90A (maybe two, maybe one and the same?) and BTR-82A abandoned.

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A Russian MI-35M prepping for combat, note the 8 Ataka missiles, and the Vitebsk defense suite.

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vk.com

More alleged Russian infiltrators in Kirovograd region.

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vk.com

Over 400 towns and villages in Ukraine are without electricity due to the fighting.

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Russia's Council of the Federation says that transports carrying weapons on Ukrainian soil may be targeted by Russia. I have my doubts. Russia can't track down all regular Ukrainian troop columns to prevent them from moving, but they're going to hunt for unmarked trucks in western Ukraine?

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diana-mihailova.livejournal.com

Another batch of Javelin's is coming from Estonia.

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Chechen fighters continue to publish videos out of Ukraine.

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Info from Taganrog Russia of an explosion at the military airfield there. Apparently a Ukrainian missile shot down by Russian air defense.

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[Feanor]

This isn't a complete update, I ran out of time. I'll try to do another one later tonight.

 

[Capt. Ironpants]

Did they delete the article? I can't access that link.

Try this one:

Foreign students fleeing Ukraine say they face segregation, racism at border | CNN

As the Russian invasion of Ukraine continues, foreign students attempting to leave the country say they are experiencing racist treatment by Ukrainian security forces and border officials.

www.cnn.com

 

[Big_Zucchini]

By timing and lack of splinter damage that looks more like indirect fire impacts from an automatic grenade launcher.

Definitely could be. As I said, the evidence of usage of cluster bombs is quite overwhelming.
Recently some countries put back into service improved cluster bombs that have dud rates far below the threshold of the convention.
The convention on the ban of cluster bombs is not a blanket ban, and some can simply not sign it.
But any usage of cluster bombs by Russia is simply morally wrong, even if not a crime.

Even if done outside populated areas, these duds are known to kill people roaming around them years after any conflict. There have been many reported casualties.

 

[Feanor]

By timing and lack of splinter damage that looks more like indirect fire impacts from an automatic grenade launcher.

This would make a lot of sense. Some of those Tigr-Ms rolling around Kharkov were definitely carrying AGS-17s.

Definitely could be. As I said, the evidence of usage of cluster bombs is quite overwhelming.
Recently some countries put back into service improved cluster bombs that have dud rates far below the threshold of the convention.
The convention on the ban of cluster bombs is not a blanket ban, and some can simply not sign it.
But any usage of cluster bombs by Russia is simply morally wrong, even if not a crime.

Even if done outside populated areas, these duds are known to kill people roaming around them years after any conflict. There have been many reported casualties.

For sure. To be honest, we should have expected the use of cluster munitions. Russia used them freely in Syria. We will likely see more restraint in their use here, but more restraint doesn't mean none.

As for listing things done by Putin's government that are morally wrong.... I don't think we have enough server space.

 

[Capt. Ironpants]

Definitely could be. As I said, the evidence of usage of cluster bombs is quite overwhelming.
Recently some countries put back into service improved cluster bombs that have dud rates far below the threshold of the convention.
The convention on the ban of cluster bombs is not a blanket ban, and some can simply not sign it.
But any usage of cluster bombs by Russia is simply morally wrong, even if not a crime.

Even if done outside populated areas, these duds are known to kill people roaming around them years after any conflict. There have been many reported casualties.

Both sides (Ukrainian and LDNR) used them in 2015:

Ukraine: More Civilians Killed in Cluster Munition Attacks

www.hrw.org

NATO dropped 1,765 cluster bombs during Op Allied Force (FR Yugoslavia,1999). Sorry it's wiki, but here's a link to one I happened to remember (cluster bombs intended for airport hit city center of Niš 3km from airport) on 7 May (civilian deaths and injuries), followed by more cluster bombs on the eastern part of the city on 12 May (civilian injuries) 7km from the airport:

Niš cluster bombing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

From the article: "Today, hundreds of unexploded cluster munitions can still be found in the Serbian countryside, despite efforts by the Serbian government to clear all sites of such munitions."

More details here:

Nato cluster bombs 'kill 15' in hospital and crowded market

Nato bombers yesterday dropped cluster bombs on a crowded outdoor market and a hospital in the southern Serbian city of Nis, killing at least 15 people and injuring many more, according to Yugoslav officials, independent media, and local residents.

www.theguardian.com

ICTY's take on NATO use of cluster bombs:

Final Report to the Prosecutor by the Committee Established to Review the NATO Bombing Campaign Against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia | International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia

www.icty.org

Russia, Ukraine and the US, among others, are not signatories to the 2008 Convention:

Home

www.clusterconvention.org

NATO did not use cluster munitions in Op Odysseus Dawn (Libya, 2011), firstly, I presume because a number of NATO members are signatories to the Convention, and secondly becsuse US and NATO countries condemned Gadaffi's use of them. Sadly, the warlords there continue to use them, including Haftar (spelled Hifter in 2011, but same guy -- widely considered a US asset when first inserted into Libya):

'Reckless disregard for civilians': Haftar's forces accused of using banned cluster bombs

Human Rights Watch says munitions were used during December attack on a residential neighbourhood in Tripoli

www.middleeasteye.net

Above is historical and legal info. Personally, I hate the things and wish no one used them, but that's neither here nor there, just my private opinion, probably colored by my own experiences as someone whose job once included assisting injured civilians, comforting survivors of the dead (and photographing their bodies for documentation, which was distasteful, but had to be done), and filing reports on such incidents in conflict zones. So I'm just that way.

 

[jref]

Hi, I've been following the thread quietly. I have no military experience whatsoever so I won't be engaging in any discussions and posting anything other than occasional questions.
Speaking of questions, can anyone comment on the accuracy of the map:


And how's the situation around Mariupol'? The city seems to be cut off.

Thanks

 

[Muukalainen]

Putin's big problem with calling the Ukraine government "Nazis" is that it's president is a JEW, with both mother and father being Jewish. No Jewish person would have a bar of the Nazis .

I am unclear on this argument, not because I think the Ukrainian government is a Nazi government (its not), but that it is stated as if there is 0 truth to Putin's claim. To my knowledge and from this thread itself, I know there are at least the Azov Battalion and S14 as fairly large, unambiguously Neo-Nazi groups. I know little about S14, but the Azov battalion is an official part of the Ukrainian national guard. No, the Ukrainian government as a whole is not a Nazi government, but I do find their continued official acceptance of the Azov Battalion deeply problematic. Hell, even the US government agrees they are Neo Nazis and sanctioned them from receiving military aid. To be explicit, I do not even remotely think this legitimates Putin's invasion (it does not), but it is something that needs to be discussed honestly.

 

[kato]

Hell, even the US government agrees they are Neo Nazis and sanctioned them from receiving military aid.

Just as a note: The Azov battalion, its recruitment structures and its networking with multiple militant Neonazi groups in a variety of countries are under observation by domestic intelligence services in several European countries.

 

[Steinmetz]

Hi, I've been following the thread quietly. I have no military experience whatsoever so I won't be engaging in any discussions and posting anything other than occasional questions.
Speaking of questions, can anyone comment on the accuracy of the map:
View attachment 48972

And how's the situation around Mariupol'? The city seems to be cut off.

Thanks

Looks fairly accurate to me, considering Russian breakthroughs on the Southern Front. The 58th CAA has been by far the most effective. North East direction is unclear, could be wrong. Western Kiev, I've seen and listened to radio chatter that indicates they've expanded much farther south and west of the city than is shown.

 

[JGCAC]

IIRC, there was footage of Su-57 Felons on the first day. Has there been any more information as to their operations?

 

[Rock the kasbah]

Looks fairly accurate to me, considering Russian breakthroughs on the Southern Front. The 58th CAA has been by far the most effective. North East direction is unclear, could be wrong. Western Kiev, I've seen and listened to radio chatter that indicates they've expanded much farther south and west of the city than is shown.

That thin grey strip from Kyiv to Russia, is that the so called humanitarian corridor I have heard mentioned ?

 

[DDG38]

Hi, I've been following the thread quietly. I have no military experience whatsoever so I won't be engaging in any discussions and posting anything other than occasional questions.
Speaking of questions, can anyone comment on the accuracy of the map:

It's hard to assess the veracity of images without knowing their source, and in future if you post images please note where you obtained them from.

 

[Steinmetz]

That thin grey strip from Kyiv to Russia, is that the so called humanitarian corridor I have heard mentioned ?

That's the Kiev reservoir along the Dniper north of the city. The corridor isn't show on the map, but it's an open highway that runs west of the city.

 

[Capt. Ironpants]

That thin grey strip from Kyiv to Russia, is that the so called humanitarian corridor I have heard mentioned ?

The humanitarian corridor out of Kiev is the Vasilkiv Highway. Vasilkiv is a short distance SSW of Kiev, if checking a map to see the highway.