The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Russia claims that the attack on the Kerch Bridge is a terrorist attack. Actually the bridge is a legitimate target because it's part of the military infrastructure, as were the bridges across the Dniepr in Kherson.

Sub Brief discussion on the Kerch Bridge attack.


His opinion is that a barge was used for the attack and he has evidence of a flat bow barge poking out from underneath the bridge just as it went bang. He points it out in the video and I have a screen shot of it below. He's put a nice big red arrow to show it. I saw the barge on the videos late on Saturday and wondered what that had to do with it.

Kerch Bridge Barge.jpg

I actually thought that it might have been a UUV / USV because one had washed up on a beach in Crimea a couple of weeks ago.


Long queues are forming on the Crimean side of the Kerch Bridge as people try to get to the Russian side of the Kerch Strait.


There is also talk that Putin may use chemical and / or biological as precursors to a nuke.


It is also thought that approximate half of Ukraine's tank fleet consists of captured Russian tanks.


The Ukrainians used a kamikaze UAV to attack the Shaykovka Air Base in the Kaluga Oblast 140 miles inside Russia. It is the base that the TU-22M that have been used for the bulk of the air strikes against Ukraine operate from.

 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
ISW Updates.
These are deliberately posted without comment in order for members to reach their own conclusions.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment
October 10, 9:30 pm ET

Full article
: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-10

The pdf can be downloaded here.

Main Points.

  • Russian forces conducted massive, coordinated missile strikes on over 20 Ukrainian cities.
  • President Vladimir Putin claimed that the coordinated missile strikes were in retaliation for the explosion on the Kerch Strait Bridge, likely in part to curry favor with “pro-war” factions.
  • Russian and Belarusian ground forces remain unlikely to attack Ukraine from Belarusian territory to the north.
  • Ukrainian forces have likely liberated over 200 square kilometers of territory in western Luhansk Oblast as of October 10.
  • Russian forces continued unsuccessful attempts to regain recently lost territory in northwest Kherson Oblast while reinforcing nearby positions with damaged and hastily mobilized units.
  • Russian forces continued ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast.
  • Russian and occupation administration officials are setting conditions to move up to 40,000 residents out of Kherson Oblast to Russian-occupied Crimea and the Russian Federation.
  • Russian forces cannot supply mobilized forces, likely due to years of supply theft by contract soldiers and commanders.


Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.

Russian forces conducted a massive missile strike attack against over 20 cities, including Kyiv, on October 10.
The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces launched over 84 cruise missiles and 24 drone attacks, 13 of which were carried out with Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones.[1] Ukrainian air defense shot down 43 cruise missiles, 10 Shahed-136 drones, and 3 unspecified drones. Russian forces launched missiles from 10 strategic bombers operating in the Caspian Sea and from Nizhny Novgorod, Iskander short-range ballistic missile systems, and 6 missile carriers in the Black Sea.[2] Russian forces launched the Shahed-136 drones from Crimea and Belarus.[3] Ukrainian media reported that Russian missile strikes hit 70 targets, including 29 critical infrastructure facilities, 4 high-rise buildings, 35 residential buildings, and a school.[4]

Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed to have ordered the missile strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure in retaliation for a “terrorist act” at the Kerch Strait Bridge, likely in part to curry favor with the Russian pro-war nationalist camp that has been demanding such retaliation.[5] Putin accused Ukraine during his meeting with the Russian Security Council of conducting terrorist acts against Russian civilian and critical infrastructure, namely against the Kerch Strait Bridge, the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant (NPP), and segments of the Turkish Stream gas transmission system.[6] Ukrainian officials have not formally taken responsibility for the explosion at the Kerch Strait Bridge.[7] The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) also reported that Putin has been planning this attack prior to the Kerch Strait Bridge explosion, and if true, could indicate that Putin planned this attack for the deflection of the Kharkiv-Izyum-Lyman failures.[8]

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu also attended the meeting despite speculations that Putin would force him to resign, which may suggest that Putin settled on responding to only one of the pro-war community’s demands at this time.

Putin emphasized that he would conduct proportional escalation in any future retaliatory actions. He stated that if Ukraine continues to carry out “terrorist attacks against [Russian] territory, then Russian responses will be harsh, and their scale will correspond to the level of the threat to the Russian Federation.” This declaration of proportionality suggests that Putin intends to continue climbing the escalation ladder rung by rung and cautiously rather than jumping to more dramatic measures such as the use of nuclear weapons. Putin may also mean to message the Russian pro-war camp that they should manage their expectations of an ongoing daily bombardment of Ukraine similar to the one conducted today.[9] Russian milbloggers, for their part, have overwhelmingly welcomed the strikes and amplified Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev’s statement that more attacks against Ukraine will follow soon.[10] Ukrainian and Western intelligence have previously reported that Russia has spent a significant portion of its high-precision missiles, and Putin likely knows better than Medvedev or the milbloggers that he cannot sustain attacks of this intensity for very long.[11]

The October 10 Russian attacks wasted some of Russia’s dwindling precision weapons against civilian targets, as opposed to militarily significant targets. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian forces successfully completed the mission of striking Ukrainian military command centers, signal infrastructure, and energy systems in Ukraine.[12] Social media shows that Russians instead hit a children’s playground, a park, a German consulate, and a business center among other non-military targets.[13] Ukrainian air defenses also shot down half of the Russian drones and cruise missiles. Russian attacks on the Ukrainian energy grid will not likely break Ukraine’s will to fight, but Russia’s use of its limited supply of precision weapons in this role may deprive Putin of options to disrupt ongoing Ukrainian counter-offensives in Kherson and Luhansk Oblasts.

Russian and Belarusian forces remain unlikely to attack Ukraine from the north despite Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko's October 10 announcement that Belarus and Russia agreed to deploy the Union State’s Regional Grouping of Forces (RGV) —a strategic formation of Russian and Belarusian units tasked with defending the Union State. Lukashenko stated that he and Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed on October 7 on an unspecified “deployment” of the Russian-Belarusian RGV in “connection with the escalation on the western borders of the Union State” but did not clearly define the deployment’s parameters.[14] Lukashenko stated that over a thousand Russian personnel will deploy to Belarus and that a Russian-Belarusian group began forming on October 8.[15] The Russian component of any RGV formations in Belarus will likely be comprised of low-readiness mobilized men or conscripts who likely will not pose a significant conventional military threat to Ukraine.

The Russian component of the RGV is comprised of elements of the 1st Guard Tank Army, 20th Combined Arms Army, and airborne units– formations that have all sustained heavy combat losses in Ukraine and have a severely reduced combat capacity.[16] A Kyiv Post reporter claimed that Russian soldiers are deploying to Belarus en masse via cattle railcars without mechanized equipment on October 10—a characterization consistent with ISW's assessment.[17] ISW has previously assessed that Ukrainian reports from late September of Belarus preparing to accept 20,000 mobilized Russian men indicate that Russia hopes to use Belarusian military facilities and infrastructure to hold and potentially train newly mobilized Russian forces, but that it remains exceedingly unlikely that these are leading indicators of imminent Belarusian involvement in Ukraine on Russia’s behalf.[18] The Kremlin may seek to use additional Russian forces in Belarus to fix Ukrainian forces near Kyiv and prevent their redeployment elsewhere to participate in counter-offensives. ISW has previously assessed that Lukashenko cannot afford the domestic ramifications of Belarusian involvement in Ukraine.[19] ISW also assesses that Russia does not have the ability to form a ground strike force from scratch or from existing units in Belarus quickly. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that it has not observed indicators of Russian forces forming offensive groups in Belarus and explicitly stated “there is no threat of an attack from the territory of the Republic of Belarus as of October 10.”[20]
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
A consideration I have is when media is discussed is of bias its true in many countries publishers can show bias in politics, the recipient has a choice of which to peruse ,state run media is a different beast ,apologies in reference to wiki ,
Media freedom in Russia - Wikipedia
Russia Closing Down Media Freedoms | Human Rights Watch (hrw.org)
Press Freedom in Russia — Human Rights Pulse
This is not new of course even through to the control of the church
Control through propaganda and censorship - Nazi control of Germany - National 5 History Revision - BBC Bitesize
Why is Russia’s church backing Putin’s war? Church-state history gives a clue | Britannica
Ii would be easy to have a discourse on troll factories and how they are set up to by deception influence targeted social sites abroad for propaganda purposes ,I had a discussion with one years ago who admitted to such and wanted to claim without proof that everyone else did this
How Russia Spreads Fake News, Explained by a Former Troll | Time
Inside Russia's Troll Factory: Controlling debate and stifling dissent in internet forums and social media - ABC News
Infamous St. Petersburg 'Troll Factory' Set on Fire - The Moscow Times
This troll factory was believed owned by one Yevgeny Prigozhin with the nickname of Putins chef and also the founder of the mercenary group Wagner
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
What Ukrainian AD systems apart from the S-300; Buk and NASAMs have the ability to destroy cruise and ballistic missiles? Also does anyone know what the Russians have been using for the missile strikes apart from Kalibre and Kh-101?
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russia claims that the attack on the Kerch Bridge is a terrorist attack. Actually the bridge is a legitimate target because it's part of the military infrastructure, as were the bridges across the Dniepr in Kherson.

Sub Brief discussion on the Kerch Bridge attack.

Russia has borrowed Ukraine's propaganda move of just calling the other side terrorists regardless of accuracy. Ukrainian media and even government officials routinely referred to the rebels pre-war as "Russo-terrorist occupying forces". I would disregard such epithets entirely and classify the behavior based on the facts rather based on how the sides state it.

His opinion is that a barge was used for the attack and he has evidence of a flat bow barge poking out from underneath the bridge just as it went bang. He points it out in the video and I have a screen shot of it below. He's put a nice big red arrow to show it. I saw the barge on the videos late on Saturday and wondered what that had to do with it.

View attachment 49727

I actually thought that it might have been a UUV / USV because one had washed up on a beach in Crimea a couple of weeks ago.

The footage from the bottom shows little damage, possibly not consistent with a blast from below, though we don't have that much footage yet.

It is also thought that approximate half of Ukraine's tank fleet consists of captured Russian tanks.

If this is true, they're doing a great job of hiding them. We're mostly seeing T-64s and T-72M1s in Ukrainian service. I've seen a Ukrainian T-72B3, T-80BVM, and even what I think is a captured T-80U but they're rare.

The Ukrainians used a kamikaze UAV to attack the Shaykovka Air Base in the Kaluga Oblast 140 miles inside Russia. It is the base that the TU-22M that have been used for the bulk of the air strikes against Ukraine operate from.

I haven't gotten to this yet in my updates pipeline but the Russian side reports downing a UAV with no damage caused. No photos to support either claim that I've seen so far, though the article you have linked has an update at the bottom suggesting that the base didn't get hit after all. It would make sense either way. Ukraine has used UAVs to carry out attacks like this inside Crimea repeatedly against various targets. It wouldn't be surprising to see them used somewhere else.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
What Ukrainian AD systems apart from the S-300; Buk and NASAMs have the ability to destroy cruise and ballistic missiles? Also does anyone know what the Russians have been using for the missile strikes apart from Kalibre and Kh-101?
Iglas too apparently.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/y0carn
Cruise missiles are pretty slow, if they get detected and the UKR have a good idea fo their intended trajectory, they arent that hard to shootdown it seems.


Russian Missile strikes from yesterday. There have been several videos of the strikes, but these 2 are a cut above the rest.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/y0f64b
At 20 seconds in you can see the cruise missile change trajectory, very good work by the filmer.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/y0m0pa
This is the best dash cam video since the early days of the war. This was an electric substation in Lviv.
 
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Spkrdctr

New Member
It is long past time for Ukraine to level Belgorod. It is a military staging area and therefor a viable target. The west needs to stop playing games with the Ukrainian men who are being killed every single day. The west is fighting to the last Ukrainian. Very sad.
 

Exonian

Member
Regarding the question as to whether more than half of the Ukraine tank force now comprises captured Russian equipment.

Assuming the lists supplied by Oryx to be fairly accurate it is clear that Ukraine will have acquired hundreds of potentially usable tanks. These will have been captured over a wide area, and many may have mechanical defects which lead to them being abandoned in the first place. I would imagine that Ukraine would want first to get them away from the front lines and back to proper repair facilities. (Have some Czech companies agreed to repair Ukraine tanks?)

Rather than add the captured Russian tanks back into Ukraine units in small packets might they be using them to build up reformed or new armoured units each equipped with the same variant? These to be used in a future counter-offensive?

Re-use of captured enemy equipment is of course nothing new. In WWII Major Alfred Becker a German artillery officer created an entire organisation dedicated to recycling captured and abandoned equipment.
 
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Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
What Ukrainian AD systems apart from the S-300; Buk and NASAMs have the ability to destroy cruise and ballistic missiles? Also does anyone know what the Russians have been using for the missile strikes apart from Kalibre and Kh-101?
Don't know about ballistic, but cruise missiles are perhaps the easiest target for air defenses - as long as you can see it. Best way is a top down look, but Ukraine doesn't have the means for that on its own.
But if you have sharp enough troops, and just enough luck to have them well positioned, they could even down cruise missiles with stingers, or alert proper AD units to scan low.

A MANPADS reportedly shooting down a cruise missile.

EDIT: I was ninja'd.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russian strikes are continuing. The follow-up strikes, and the multi-day nature of the operation suggests that this might be more then merely reprisal strikes for the Crimean bridge. It's possible Surovikin has only recently been announced but in reality was working on taking over as supreme commander for the war effort for some time, and this is an operation being carried out as his vision for the war effort. It's also possible Russia had an escalation plan in place, was ready to execute. It's even possible (a nod to @OPSSG's questions) that Russia carried out a false flag at the Crimean Bridge as a prelude to shifting the war into high gear. Though again, the severity of the damage raises questions.

TES-6 still burns in Kiev.


Fire burns in Zaporozhye after a recent strike.


Pavlograd, Vol'nogorsk and Kamenskoe in Dnepropetrovsk region got hit, energy infrastructure was targetted. In Pavlograd and Vol'nogorsk the targets were power grid substations.


Another impact in Dnepropetrovsk.


The Pavlograd rail junction got hit too. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it has been hit before.


More impacts in L'vov.


Ukrainian sources report 4 substations hit in L'vov, two were hit repeatedly destroying them completely.


In L'vov power reportedly came back on briefly but went out again after more strikes.


Russian cruise missile heading towards Odessa.


Multiple impacts were reported in Odessa.


The Ladyzhinskaya TES has been hit, in Vinnitsa. It was reportedly hit twice, the second strike wouding 6 rescue workers.


An RVV-BD was spotted over Ukraine. It's not a good missile for engaging combat aircraft, so it's likely being used either as a decoy target to draw out Ukrainian air defenses, or as an air-to-ground munition.


Ukrainian forces fired back at Shebekino, Belgorod region, Russia, destroyed a substation and reportedly leaving ~2000 residents without power.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Regarding the question as to whether more than half of the Ukraine tank force now comprises captured Russian equipment.

Assuming the lists supplied by Oryx to be fairly accurate it is clear that Ukraine will have acquired hundreds of potentially usable tanks. These will have been captured over a wide area, and many may have mechanical defects which lead to them being abandoned in the first place. I would imagine that Ukraine would want first to get them away from the front lines and back to proper repair facilities. (Have some Czech companies agreed to repair Ukraine tanks?)

Rather than add the captured Russian tanks back into Ukraine units in small packets might they be using them to build up reformed or new armoured units each equipped with the same variant? These to be used in a future counter-offensive?

Re-use of captured enemy equipment is of course nothing new. In WWII Major Alfred Becker a German artillery officer created an entire organisation dedicated to recycling captured and abandoned equipment.
This is plausible. It's also plausible Russian strikes are making returning these vehicles to service more difficult. I know at least one repair facility working on Russian armored vehicles in Kiev was taken out. There were also instances of Ukrainians burning abandoned armored vehicles due to difficulties with evacuating them. It's unclear how many are really available, though the number could well be in the triple digits. If there are going to be entire units out of captured Russian tanks, this should become obvious when they hit the front line.
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member
Don't know about ballistic, but cruise missiles are perhaps the easiest target for air defenses - as long as you can see it.
It helps that cruise missiles are relatively slow which in theory makes them easier to target but it boils down to early warning. Makes a world of difference if the crew of a AD system has sensors which can alertt hem in time. The downside is that cruise missiles tend to fly low.

On MANPADs technically a beam rider like Starstreak which flies at Mach 3 has a better PK with cruise missiles compared to IR homing systems. The Ukrainians were provided with Starstreak mounted on Stormers which have ADADs but the question remains whether a cruise missile or even a UAS emits enough IR emissions in order to be detected by ADADs.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Cruise missiles are pretty slow, if they get detected and the UKR have a good idea fo their intended trajectory, they arent that hard to shootdown it seems.
If I'm not mistaken the Iraqis downed a few with flak. Not sure about the Serbs.

(Have some Czech companies agreed to repair Ukraine tanks?)
The Poles and even the Slovaks have the ability.

In WWII Major Alfred Becker a German artillery officer created an entire organisation dedicated to recycling captured and abandoned equipment.
Have you seen the famous pre invasion propaganda pics of Rommel visiting 21 Panzer Division? The converted vehicles can be seen.

Less well known is that some German units including Das Reich pressed small numbers of T-34s into service for brief periods.
 
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Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The footage from the bottom shows little damage, possibly not consistent with a blast from below, though we don't have that much footage yet.
I agree with you on this and I also note the large area of scorching on the top of the bridge and little sign of it underneath. Even the part of the bridge along side of the collapsed section is heavily scorched while photo's of this section's underside show little sign of this. This would not be the case if the explosion came from underneath, the reverse would be the case. I think that the evidence to date strongly supports the explosion coming from the top side of the bridge.
A possibility I have thought of is that the truck had an improvised shaped charge inside of it as it appears to have punched straight through with the blast seen traveling along the water almost instantly.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
This is plausible. It's also plausible Russian strikes are making returning these vehicles to service more difficult. I know at least one repair facility working on Russian armored vehicles in Kiev was taken out. There were also instances of Ukrainians burning abandoned armored vehicles due to difficulties with evacuating them. It's unclear how many are really available, though the number could well be in the triple digits. If there are going to be entire units out of captured Russian tanks, this should become obvious when they hit the front line.
Besides repairing and refitting captured AFV, you need to consider logistical constraints. Doesnt the T-80 series use a gas turbine ? Not sure how prevalent that type of fuel is, or the UKR access to spare parts for it.

Given the pictures we see at Oryx, most tanks look to be in usable condition (abandoned without sabotage). With 400 or so listed as "captured" I would assume most are put back into service. Local units probably take a cut of the spoils and the rest go to the rear for eventual use.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
The T-80UD has a diesel engine but unless I'm mistaken it's only operated by the Ukrainians. No idea if any Russian T-80 variants have diesels.
 

Vivendi

Well-Known Member
The first German IRIS-T SLM system was delivered yesterday, together with 4 new HIMARS from the US it seems: The Washington Post on Twitter: "Ukraine's defense minister said Tuesday that an IRIS-T air-defense system from Germany and four HIMARS systems from the U.S. had arrived, as Russian strikes continued across Ukraine for the second day in a row. https://t.co/6UrsKbB2Pm" / Twitter

About time the IRIS-T deliveries started. Four systems is not enough, Germany should at least double that.

The Ukraine support tracker has been updated with data until October 3: Ukraine Support Tracker | Kiel Institute (ifw-kiel.de)
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
The Ukraine war is a very comfortable way for western nations to ramp up production as it de-risks it significantly.
  • Countries can decide on a large production volume before they choose a permanent domestic item, and in the worst case have that donated to Ukraine if they pick something else.
  • Meanwhile, workforce and tools will be ready for production of the preferred product.
We don't really see much of it in Europe.
 
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Vivendi

Well-Known Member
Norway will buy 17,000 122 mm and 152 mm shells for Ukraine, estimated cost 210 million NOK (20.1 million EUR). Norge bidrar til kjøp av artilleriammunisjon til Ukraina - regjeringen.no

I wonder who will produce them? Perhaps MSM group in Slovakia? ARTILLERY AMMO | MSM GROUP
Or Mesko in Poland? Artillery ammunition - MESKO

A curious development since Norwegian Nammo is a big manufacturer of ammo (including 155 mm shells), but to my knowledge does not produce 122 mm and 152 mm. It's interesting if this is the case since it means that Norway is probably buying what Ukraine really needs the most and not just what benefits Norwegian manufacturers. Anyway 17,000 shells will not last long, but I guess it helps. And Norway is just one of more than 40 countries assisting Ukraine.
 
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