the concerned
Active Member
Maybe not buy the gripens outright but a lease could be an option and we already have gripens in the country at boscombe down which I think are also leased aircraft.
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
If we get P8, then there's your maritime strike I suspect. Getting Tiffy and/or Dave B cleared for Harpoon would seem to be the next most sensible options. Gripen is not on the table as we have other types in service in numbers.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
They are not in the RAF or RN Fleet though, so do not count.
Due to sustainment costs of introducing an additional type, it would be better to purchase additional Typhoons or F-35's if you want something for Maritime strike.
As stated about however, these would not be a replacement for the Hawks, but rather the Tornado.
Artful has conducted her first dive - albeit in BAEs dock - and is prepping to leave Barrow early next year.
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11575
Very interesting bit of news at the end, both Astute and Ambush have completed their first operational patrols. Astute was sort of a given because pictures of her returning to port made the rounds on Twitter after an 8 month deployment with the Chalfont DDS.
HMS Sutherland, the 3rd (?) frigate to be fitted with ARTISAN has left her 'hangar' where the majority of her refit work was done and is now alongside for the remainder, HMS Montrose has replaced Sutherland in the hall and is now undergoing refit work including the fitting of ARTISAN
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11565
Plus on a slightly older bit of news, while in the Gulf on operations HMS Defender has been operating with USS George H Bush battlegroup
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11545
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11575
Very interesting bit of news at the end, both Astute and Ambush have completed their first operational patrols. Astute was sort of a given because pictures of her returning to port made the rounds on Twitter after an 8 month deployment with the Chalfont DDS.
HMS Sutherland, the 3rd (?) frigate to be fitted with ARTISAN has left her 'hangar' where the majority of her refit work was done and is now alongside for the remainder, HMS Montrose has replaced Sutherland in the hall and is now undergoing refit work including the fitting of ARTISAN
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11565
Plus on a slightly older bit of news, while in the Gulf on operations HMS Defender has been operating with USS George H Bush battlegroup
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11545
The first T23 going in to be fitted with CAMM should be soon now?
I do like the ideas of Gripens in that maritime role just as its good design which is supposed to be so much cheaper than Typhoons, F35 to operate the fact that EPTS uses them is a bonus(although the affordability of another aircraft makes it a great theoretical idea rather than a real one)
2016 is the date I think? Presumably it'll be the likes of Iron Duke to go back in again.
And as an aside, it looks like those photos of Astute coming alongside the other day actually *were* her returning from her maiden deployment. 8 months all in all, mostly in the Med but did enter the Gulf and the Indian Ocean.
Probably the reason why mostly in the Med was extensive trials of the DDS, we're tiptoeing back into a capability lost with the Swiftsures so it's easiest doing it in warmer waters.
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11585
Makes you wonder really, it could sort of be like Cold War 2.0 in the Indian Ocean for the RN with Astutes tracking Chinese Shang class SSNs and maybe even their boomers now that they're starting to employ a CASD.
As for Ambush, we know she's been to Brazil this year, maybe she hung around the South Atlantic for a bit . . .
The RN says Astute exercised with US maritime aircraft! nice bit of sub hunting there.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-an...ber/09/141009-happy-homecoming-for-hms-astute
And as an aside, it looks like those photos of Astute coming alongside the other day actually *were* her returning from her maiden deployment. 8 months all in all, mostly in the Med but did enter the Gulf and the Indian Ocean.
Probably the reason why mostly in the Med was extensive trials of the DDS, we're tiptoeing back into a capability lost with the Swiftsures so it's easiest doing it in warmer waters.
https://navynews.co.uk/archive/news/item/11585
Makes you wonder really, it could sort of be like Cold War 2.0 in the Indian Ocean for the RN with Astutes tracking Chinese Shang class SSNs and maybe even their boomers now that they're starting to employ a CASD.
As for Ambush, we know she's been to Brazil this year, maybe she hung around the South Atlantic for a bit . . .
The RN says Astute exercised with US maritime aircraft! nice bit of sub hunting there.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-an...ber/09/141009-happy-homecoming-for-hms-astute
First steel cut on the first of 3 RN OPVs has happened so the design has been released, pretty much what we expected.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/first-steel-cut-on-new-patrol-ships
It's a 90m OPV without a hangar with a 30mm up front with minguns/GMPG, 35 day endurance, 2 RHIBs, 5,500nm range, 24kt.
Still banging on with the nonsense about them 'supporting UK interests at home and abroad', if they've not got a hangar to support a Wildcat then they're going to be sod all use outside UK waters. The main element involved in chasing down pirates and drug smugglers is the Wildcat, without it she's going to resort to chasing them down in RHIBs.
They're named HMS Forth, HMS Medway and HMS Trent, all River names, read into that what you will.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/first-steel-cut-on-new-patrol-ships
It's a 90m OPV without a hangar with a 30mm up front with minguns/GMPG, 35 day endurance, 2 RHIBs, 5,500nm range, 24kt.
Still banging on with the nonsense about them 'supporting UK interests at home and abroad', if they've not got a hangar to support a Wildcat then they're going to be sod all use outside UK waters. The main element involved in chasing down pirates and drug smugglers is the Wildcat, without it she's going to resort to chasing them down in RHIBs.
They're named HMS Forth, HMS Medway and HMS Trent, all River names, read into that what you will.
t68
Well-Known Member
Agreed, that hanger would have made it all the more worthwhile and they might have made them more amendable to the export market( RAN)
kev 99
Member
Personally I just can't help but feel this deal represents poor value for the UK tax payer and represents really bad planning on behalf of the MOD/treasury. The MOD shouldn't be buying ships that the RN doesn't need or want just to keep yards busy, but if the situation ever did arise they should at least make the ships as useful as possible, without a hanger these River 2s won't even be much use hunting pirates.
They may as well replace the current Rivers for all the good they are because outside of UK waters? No way.
As you said poor planning, it would have been more expensive but better value for money to have ordered an extra Type 45 or two or even to have filled some other gap, say a modern day sloop to replace the OPVs and supplement the MCM and hydrographic capabilities.
kev 99
Member
Of all the things they could have built, they appear to have chosen the cheapest and least useful option.
But cheapest was the main parameter they wanted, when the whispers went out that the Govt were going to buy 'em there wasn't much time to get anything else which would have been major/useful ready.
Argus/Diligence are both getting old in the tooth for example, a pair of vessels with hospital ship + engineering capabilities with a good sized flight deck perhaps?
Argus/Diligence are both getting old in the tooth for example, a pair of vessels with hospital ship + engineering capabilities with a good sized flight deck perhaps?
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
The linked article says they can take a Merlin, but can't Clyde (9 metres shorter) take a Merlin as well?
Clyde is something of an oddity, slightly enlarged by a couple hundred tons, 2 metres longer, slightly larger complement.
The rest can't support a helicopter at all, if you look at the linked image of the class there is at first glance what looks like a flight deck but is actually surrounded by a low bulkhead implying that it isn't.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X4GuLP2M9...aL-5NYTeexw/s1600/6779940802_3c4abeebcc_o.jpg
The rest can't support a helicopter at all, if you look at the linked image of the class there is at first glance what looks like a flight deck but is actually surrounded by a low bulkhead implying that it isn't.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X4GuLP2M9...aL-5NYTeexw/s1600/6779940802_3c4abeebcc_o.jpg
I suspect that these will come into service to replace the existing ships, which will be passed to reserve or disposed of. I don't suppose there's any possibility of keeping them activated via the RNR?
We'll be getting some OPV's with decks, that's about the good news.
We'll be getting some OPV's with decks, that's about the good news.
The recent discussions on the Gripen for the RAF got me thinking that not so long ago the UK was operating two types of Tornado, Jaguar, Harrier, Sea Harrier and had Typhoon entering service, not to forget the maritime strike capability of the Nimrod. Now there is Typhoon and Tornado GR4 with F-35B scheduled to enter service later in the decade and Tornado to retire. Logic suggests that should their be a requirement for additional combat aircraft they would be F-35B or possibly As, however should there be a requirement for a combat capable LIFT, a fleet requirements aircraft, an aggressor type for dissimilar air combat training and a maritime strike platform (assuming the RAF gets a cheap MPA lacking strike capability) maybe also a tactical reconnaissance and close air support type to supplement Typhoon and Lightning, then the Gripen may be in with a shot 
All our CAS eggs have been thrown into the combined AH-64 in the short term mixing in Typhoon/F35B depending on reqs and weapons compatibility.
Which isn't so bad, considering they want to get Typhoon to do everything Tornado can do before Tornado leaves us and we want new build AH-64E's with kit pulled through from the current.
Fingers crossed we end up with the P-8 and throw in some LRASM for me for maritime strike myself
Which isn't so bad, considering they want to get Typhoon to do everything Tornado can do before Tornado leaves us and we want new build AH-64E's with kit pulled through from the current.
Fingers crossed we end up with the P-8 and throw in some LRASM for me for maritime strike myself