The Mail did rather famously entirely invent an SAS involvement at Bora Bora and then bleated on about people being denied decorations - so, yeah, they're slightly prone to just imagining their stories (must save all that irritating journalism crap, where you have to investigate and well...stuff)
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
I don't think the Tiger has any special marine systems as standard, there may be some being developed. France and Australia have shown great interest in operating the Tiger from LHD's. I believe at the moment they would only operate them close to shore, not OTH (USMC) style operations. Tiger is having problems just getting operational at the moment so this is down on the list. It should be upgradable, some of these modifications like transponders could be fitted fairly easily. Im not sure if the Tigers canopy release is any better or worse than apache.
While the cobra is old, it does have this an more which is why they make particularly good marine based assest. They aren't army helicopters, they were specifically designed for the role. I would imagine some of the Cobra's systems would be transferable to the Apache with a bit of modification.
BBC News - Queen Elizabeth Rosyth carrier fire put out
seems like the QE class build had a slight hic up today. hope its as minior as stated.
seems like the QE class build had a slight hic up today. hope its as minior as stated.
Is the admission of no FSE for UK for the last month, something to be concerned about with UK defence at sea in this age, or is it scare mongering to get the UK government to invest more draw back some cut backs in the RN?
In my opinion, i can't see the Spanish or French navy setting sail for the UK shore line again, or in fact any of our local neighbours probing UK defence capability at sea. I would also hope that any military vessel sailing towards the UK would be picked up well before it got within range of UK territorial waters, which would give enough time for the RN to respond in some shape or form.
Hypothetically speaking, if a surface military vessel was probing the UK defence line at sea and no RN ship was at hand to respond, would patrol aircraft from the RAF, (Tornado in this case) be a sufficient response to such an action?
(1st post and just a defence enthusiast)
In my opinion, i can't see the Spanish or French navy setting sail for the UK shore line again, or in fact any of our local neighbours probing UK defence capability at sea. I would also hope that any military vessel sailing towards the UK would be picked up well before it got within range of UK territorial waters, which would give enough time for the RN to respond in some shape or form.
Hypothetically speaking, if a surface military vessel was probing the UK defence line at sea and no RN ship was at hand to respond, would patrol aircraft from the RAF, (Tornado in this case) be a sufficient response to such an action?
(1st post and just a defence enthusiast)
Reported to have been a fan being used for forced ventilation (hence in the stairwell) while welding was being done in an enclosed space. Some contractor using knackered old kit, by the sound of it.
Astute
New Member
Its just a thought but does anyone think there may be a batch 2 of the type 45 i know the cost per ship went up to around 1billion each but this must be the result of canceling 6 , and with other countries looking for a good aaw would this be a good time to offer the type 45 to allies again and maybe get a few for the RN off the back of any deal, the future capabilities of the type 45 are great with the possability of using the s1850 long range radar for BMD this must look like an attractive proposal for any customers, would like to hear any thoughts you have on this thanks,,,,,
It's a high end AWD ship and most of the countries that can afford and want such a thing, build their own. I don't think there's a market there. Type 26 is a more likely export candidate but the 45 doesn't marry up with US kit which removes it from most consideration and is too expensive/too narrowly focussed for most forces. I can't see us getting a second set of orders of any sort from the RN as the surface escort fleet has been pretty publicly pinned at 19, which would be the existing 45s plus a like for like replacement on the Type 23.
If we get that, I shall be both relieved and surprised. If there were more budget in the near future, I'd vote to bring HMPC forward and add some hulls to that to get us something in the low end for anti piracy, counter terrorism etc - or a replacement for Ocean with a wider set of functions. More Darings aren't likely what we need and we'd be best off fitting the ones we have with the stuff they're fitted for, but not yet with, as well as progressing with any ABM fit they can take.
Ian
Short list :
Brazil : they've been invited to participate as partners and will want to build their own ships in country. FREMM is probably better placed to take that crown as it's in the water and ready to buy - and Brazil has had the opportunity to prod and poke one.
Canada: Similarly with Brazil, and seemed promising initially after some confident sounding announcements but seems to have been publicly ruled out by Canada.
Australia: They need a frigate design but will almost certainly go with the hull used in the Hobart - by the time they've got the hang of building 'em, they'll want to capitalise on their experience.
Those are the major players that might want to purchase something of that sort and class of vessel - there may be some scope for minor buys of a couple of ships from other users with no native shipyards.
Ian
Ah, not so harsh - the Type 26 makes most of the right noises - they're offering a modular design with a lot of flexibility and have addressed a lot of the concerns regarding integration of customer selected systems (Mk41 VLS, ESSM etc)
I'm a fan of the program, and have my fingers crossed.
Ian
kev 99
Member
Yes but it looks to be making the right noises a bit late, unfortunately it looks like all the big potential customers will be buying something else.
Well, that's on the Government of the day I suspect - this whole thing has dragged on for ages longer than it needed to sadly.
Ian
Astute
New Member
again the real losers if they dont sort out how they approach projects would be the RN just hope the 13 type 26s we are due to get (hopefully) have the right tools to do there job as affective general purpose or asw frigates ,,,,,
Got to say 19 front line des/frig is still on the low side considering the UKs obligations around the world to allies/nato/protection of trade routes etc, but i guess they were the cards that the RN were delt,
Has any one got any ideas of the current ratio of ships on station to ships in refit, being repaired etc im trying to understand how bare the cupboard really is and what would we have if somthing kicked off . i would like to hear any thoughts on this.
On another note it seems Daring is ready for its first deployment after 4 years of trials, its due in early 2012 with sister ships dauntless and diamond also due for deployment next year.
Got to say 19 front line des/frig is still on the low side considering the UKs obligations around the world to allies/nato/protection of trade routes etc, but i guess they were the cards that the RN were delt,
Has any one got any ideas of the current ratio of ships on station to ships in refit, being repaired etc im trying to understand how bare the cupboard really is and what would we have if somthing kicked off . i would like to hear any thoughts on this.
On another note it seems Daring is ready for its first deployment after 4 years of trials, its due in early 2012 with sister ships dauntless and diamond also due for deployment next year.
Last edited:
Tee_Centre_10
Member
I would be very disappointed if this is the case.
SEA5000 (or Future Frigate) isn't due for a First Pass Approval (meaning Govt has decided a new frigate project will go ahead, but not on the type) until 2019-2021.
Then the options will be examined and and a choice of design is to be made in 2022-2024. This is the published RAN/Aust Govt timetable, the next is just speculation.
If history is any guide (Anzacs and Hobarts) construction will begin 2-3 years later in 2025-2027, and after a 2-3 year build a 2026-2030 commission for the first of class. This matches a 30 year service life of HMAS Anzac which commissioned in 1996.
By this point the Hobart will have been in service 12 years (fingers crossed) and the F100 design itself will be getting on for 35 years old, having been ordered by the Spanish Armada in 1997. For comparison, it would be like putting a brand new Type 22 or Oliver Hazard Perry into service today.
Further, the gap between the commissioning of the last Hobart DDG in 2018 (planned) and starting construction on the first Future Frigate in my speculated 2025-2027 is at least 7 years. Enough time to lose any corporate experience gained by ASC on the Hobarts, assuming ASC gets the contract to build the Future Frigates.
The F100 design is fine now and for the near future, but it is an utterly conventional CODAG direct drive platform that makes no allowances for improvements in propulsive technologies or hull forms that will be far more mature in 2022 when the decision is made, or increases in power requirements of weapons and sensors that would suit an IEP.
Having said all that, if the F100 is reliable and economical to run, easy to maintain and upgrade, then it wouldn't be a bad platform in 2026.
If the RNs procurement plans aren't completely screwed by budget cuts and the first Type 26 commission is still on track for the planned 2020 date, then there is even time for the RAN to undertake an in-service evaluation of the Type 26's suitability for the SEA5000 requirements by Year Of Decision in 2022-2024.
Last edited:
t68
Well-Known Member
Not sure wether to put this in the RN or US Navy or World wide Marine Corps & Amphibious discussion thread. But here goes,
Well it looks like the USMC, USN are finally getting the entire fleet of ex RN/RAF Harriers. This will be a good move on behalf of the Americans not only are they getting the plane’s but all the spares as well, should keep the USMC happy with keeping the Harriers operational till the 2025 expected withdrawal of the Harrier fleet.
Some of the UK Harriers are expected to replace F/A-18D aircraft, it is unusual that the American’s are buying used aircraft and can see the bargain they are getting when the US budget is fiscally challenged as the UK budget, so who picks up the money the UK defence or does it go back into consolidated revenue. The spare are being bought for 50 million not sure what they are picking up the airframes for would be interesting to find out and how much it would be to convert to US standards.
Navy, Corps buying decommissioned U.K. Harriers - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times
Have to wonder if they are expecting any more trouble with getting F35B in numbers to replace Harrier with in the future. How would production for the F35 take place with aircraft needing to be replaced sooner than later, will they have one line and change production midstream or multiple lines?
Well it looks like the USMC, USN are finally getting the entire fleet of ex RN/RAF Harriers. This will be a good move on behalf of the Americans not only are they getting the plane’s but all the spares as well, should keep the USMC happy with keeping the Harriers operational till the 2025 expected withdrawal of the Harrier fleet.
Some of the UK Harriers are expected to replace F/A-18D aircraft, it is unusual that the American’s are buying used aircraft and can see the bargain they are getting when the US budget is fiscally challenged as the UK budget, so who picks up the money the UK defence or does it go back into consolidated revenue. The spare are being bought for 50 million not sure what they are picking up the airframes for would be interesting to find out and how much it would be to convert to US standards.
Navy, Corps buying decommissioned U.K. Harriers - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times
Have to wonder if they are expecting any more trouble with getting F35B in numbers to replace Harrier with in the future. How would production for the F35 take place with aircraft needing to be replaced sooner than later, will they have one line and change production midstream or multiple lines?
gazzzwp
Member
UK's Naval Capability
I was wondering what people felt about the UK's ability to defend the Falkand Islands without a usable aircraft carrier? If the Argentinian's decided to launch a major invasion would they be able to cope with their existing naval defences?
I look forward to your views
G
I was wondering what people felt about the UK's ability to defend the Falkand Islands without a usable aircraft carrier? If the Argentinian's decided to launch a major invasion would they be able to cope with their existing naval defences?
I look forward to your views
G
overlander
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #7,298
British government says that they have contingency plans against a possible argentinian action, without carrier capability it would be interesting to know what contingency plans are these, anyway argentinian military capability in present days is even worst than that of 1982 and this is the main advantage for the U.K. but to leave Britain without carrier capability is totally unrresponsible especially still having overseas dependencies claimed by neighbours like the Falklands, even an ex dependency like Belize is still being claimed by Guatemala, arguing economic problems is not a excuse, France and especially Italy and Spain have even worst finantial and economic problems and they don,t think to scrap any carrier.
The possiblity of defence of the Falklands is firstly that the garrison in the islands can resist the arrival of reinforcements from the U.K. via Ascension Island, later is clear that at least 1 or 2 nuclear submarines would be deployed in the area but in the event that the argentines capture the islands (something that is very difficult due to the poor situation of its armed forces) to recapture the islands by Britain whithout carrier capability it could cost much more british lives than in 1982.
gazzzwp
Member
Thanks for the reply; I agree with your assessment. Do you know the current capability and strength of the main island garrison? Even approximately say?
overlander
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #7,300
Here you can see the strenght of the Falklands garrison at present.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Falkland_Islands"]Military of the Falkland Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]