The Indonesian Army

Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Ananda said:

Ka-32 already in Indonesia for some time, the video above just an example. Private contractors also already use them in Papua, whether for civil projects or being use to support TNI Infrastructur projects. Thus not going to be surprising that considerable portion of the 200 Helicopters that Prabowo talk for multi functions need will be Ka-52 and Mi-17.

They are quite easy to access and got parts availabilities quite abundance in the market. Also from what I heard they can be procured with alternatives currencies instead USD and Euro. Something that matter during present market situation.

There're talks on getting Russia Aero assets for sometime, even against CAATSA. The enthusiasts communities in here talk about Su-30/35 or even Su-57. However I sense it will be more on Ka-32, Mi-17 or perhaps Mi-26. It is more affordable, and can be paid by Chinese Yuan. Something also why Chinese EV threaten Japanese cars in Indo market. They can be acquired using Chinese Yuan.
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Yes, if i'm not wrong, BNPB leased/rented a Ka-32A11BC from Pegasus Air Services in the past.
But i was just surprised to see a Ka-32 with TNI-AD markings in the video.
Also some old generation Mi-8 in Penerbad colours appear on the internet.
https://www.facebook.com/61556341982997/posts/122321003738211399



Ananda said:
Just put photo of the armored gun vehicle above should be already replace by armoured vehicle gun below. The order of 50 that being done on SBY time, now so far only 18 being procure. Is the concept of 6x6 gun vehicle is consider obsolete ?
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Maybe it is, who knows? Or maybe the program is cancelled only because it was "a program created during SBY period", like so many other defence programs.

But this makes me a little bit sad:
https://lelang.go.id/kpknl/67053fce...Ov_5x5-muOUYehiQiw_aem_ny8maVmbjD0pkYbA8gmO7g

Those Pindad Anoas are all still new, less than 15-20 years. I mean, the AMX-VCI, AMX-13, BTR-40/-50, PT-76 are more than 50-60 years old, and still they are in use.
 
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D

deadlast

Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Also some old generation Mi-8 in Penerbad colours appear on the internet.
https://www.facebook.com/61556341982997/posts/122321003738211399
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Seems like Mi-8M/Mi-17, the tail rotor facing left instead of facing right as seen on the even older Mi-8, the export version of Mi-8M were known as Mi-17, hard to tell which version from these pict alone, at least it's not the older Mi-8.

The helis in picture here also come with clamshell-type cargo door instead, compared with the version already in use by TNI-AD before, the Mi-17V-5 with nose weather radar & ramp door.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
deadlast said:
Seems like Mi-8M/Mi-17, the tail rotor facing left instead of facing right as seen on the even older Mi-8, the export version of Mi-8M were known as Mi-17, hard to tell which version from these pict alone, at least it's not the older Mi-8.
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FB_IMG_1779109200137.jpg

The team task already in handover stages. Mean it is Mi-8, Mi-17V and Kamov (I believe KA-32). If it is Mi-8M as you suggest, then the procurement source come from Russia inventory. I do suspect they are using Chinese brokers, thus being paid by Chinese Yuan.
 
D

deadlast

Member
Ananda said:
View attachment 54854

The team task already in handover stages. Mean it is Mi-8, Mi-17V and Kamov (I believe KA-32). If it is Mi-8M as you suggest, then the procurement source come from Russia inventory. I do suspect they are using Chinese brokers, thus being paid by Chinese Yuan.
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Yeah, positive of it being Mi-8M/Mi-17 and not the old Mi-8, at least it has some commonality with the existing Mi-17V-5 Penerbad already using although maybe not as flexible as the V-5 model due to the clamshell door vs ramp door.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
deadlast said:
least it has some commonality with the existing Mi-17V-5 Penerbad already using although maybe not as flexible as the V-5 model due to the clamshell door vs ramp door.
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Yes, that's more important then getting new inventory type. Still I do wondering on those Kamov Ka-32. It still not using reguler TNI-AD camo. Makes me wonder if this is lease helicopter. TNI-AD already rent Kamov service for the logistics on high altitude mountain range in Papua.


ComradeVortex said:
but wasn’t the problem with the Cockerill 3105 its price? As far as I know, the HITFACT 2 is even more expensive..?
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Some rumours talk about the cost of Cockerill turret and 105 mm gun, some talk about the performance compare to the price, but also I heard some rumours of TNI-AD wants to standardise with 120 mm.

Personally I suspect they have dilemma on this class call Medium Tank. It is supposedly to replace AMX13 light tank, larger but still lighter then MBT. I sense they are in dilemma on what to build the Tank companies that they really want. Perhaps this is the reason more Harimau/Kaplan being push down on priorities list. Perhaps getting more infantry battalions now more important ;)
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
koxinga said:
Not uncommon with Indonesian arms procurement
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This why I don't put it when it come out in social media couple days ago. Because middle man is integrated part of Indonesia government procurement, not only in defense, but all sectors. However:
  • That channel accusation toward CSG and Republikorp in my opinion is still more on circumstances and not concrete to shown potential corruption happen. What they can shown are middle men got good business, but the nature of business is typical middle men/brokerage all over the world business.
  • Right now the defense brokerage in here are fighting on public spaces especially on online channels to get public support against each other. I'm not surprises if this hunterbrook got tipped by Republikorp rival brokerage to increase negative campaigns.
  • CSG business with Roketsan on this Trisulla air defences system is being done with this arrangement to find Euro FI that willing to provide export credit line for Roketsan missile system. Turkiye deal with Indonesia either has to get Euro or Gulf financiers to support, due to Turkiye own credit problem providing export financing. Afterall most defence procurement globally using Export Credit Financing line.
So in the end this is the way I see it is part of negative campaigning by rival brokerage. The thing is some of Brokerage rivals in here got sideline by this Republikorp, which considered as start-up. However unlike most defence brokerage in here, this Republikorp move with building their own industrial and maintenance support infrastructure. Just add more salt to the wound from other brokerages.

The truth is, not only B to G deal like this, but even G to G deal that supposedly free of brokerage, also do inserting those middle men functions on implementations.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
money.kompas.com

BTN (BBTN) Kucurkan Rp 1,5 Triliun ke Pindad untuk Produksi Maung MV3

Penguatan industri pertahanan dalam negeri menjadi kebutuhan strategis untuk menjaga kedaulatan dan ketahanan nasional.
money.kompas.com money.kompas.com

Pindad got credit line from SOE Bank to finance some of their projects. This is shown the trend how Defence Projects being finance. Those with higher domestic contents from local MIC usually get domestic credit line. While those with more import content will need foreign FI credit line.

However rumours from finance guys I also heard that potentially domestic FI financing will be needed, if the import come from less finance competitive market base.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
HJ2UpoJa8AAVYoq.jpg

This is MR-SAM that already, going to be, and rumours will be in TNI inventories:
  1. NASAMS with AIM120, user TNI-AU.
  2. MBDA VL-MICA, user TNI-AL,
  3. MIDLAS with Hisar D, user TNI-AL,
  4. Retia-Roketsan Trisula system with Hisar O, user TNI-AD,
  5. BUK-MB2K with 9M318, user TNI-AD.
Those 5 are the ones that from my understanding already in inventory (#1&2), or have active contract (#3,4&5). The slide from one of TNI-AD AirDefence Artilery Batallion is part of confirmation the procurement already move from sales negotiation to effective contract.

Rumours now talk about KM-SAM Blk2 also in active negotiation. Not clear yet if the user will be Army (TNI-AD) or Air Force (TNI-AU).
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Ananda said:
View attachment 54922

This is MR-SAM that already, going to be, and rumours will be in TNI inventories:
  1. NASAMS with AIM120, user TNI-AU.
  2. MBDA VL-MICA, user TNI-AL,
  3. MIDLAS with Hisar D, user TNI-AL,
  4. Retia-Roketsan Trisula system with Hisar O, user TNI-AD,
  5. BUK-MB2K with 9M318, user TNI-AD.
Those 5 are the ones that from my understanding already in inventory (#1&2), or have active contract (#3,4&5). The slide from one of TNI-AD AirDefence Artilery Batallion is part of confirmation the procurement already move from sales negotiation to effective contract.

Rumours now talk about KM-SAM Blk2 also in active negotiation. Not clear yet if the user will be Army (TNI-AD) or Air Force (TNI-AU).
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On one side we can see these plans as again a proof of the hopeless policy to buy multiple weapon systems of the same class/kind in small quantities to make our armed forces chaotic and inefficient. I mean, why not more AIM-120 missiles and NASAMS 2 batteries for TNI-AU, and more Hisars for TNI-AD or the landsystem variant of the VL-MICA?

Or is the idea/philosophy behind this plan that every branch of the armed forces needs to have two types/brands of medium-range air defence systems? To be more resistant against EW and sanctions/embargoes? Ordering more AIM-120 missiles and NASAMS 2 batteries should be the most logic choice, but indeed there is the possibility that people look to the Kongsberg NSM case in Malaysia, US sanctions in the past and plans of retirement of the F-16 in the near future.

KM-SAM Cheongung is based on the 9N96 missile, but maybe it is very compatible with the KP-SAM Chiron which is already in use with TNI-AU.

Well, i just hope the Ministry of Defence knows what it is doing, and that all acquisitions are made with the desire to improve our armed forces, and not only for a quick cash grab.
 
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Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Sandhi Yudha said:
KM-SAM Cheongung is based on the 9N96 missile, but maybe it is very compatible with the KP-SAM Chiron which is already in use with TNI-AU.
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From what I gather it is TNI-AU that shown interest on KM-SAM. The talk/rumours indicate precaution with Norway export policy plus long queue in getting AIM 120 C/D is main reason to find alternative for NASAMS.

Remember this is not talking yet on MBDA Aster 30 for PPA and potential HQ9 for Long Range SAM. Yes seems they are working for two choices for each categories for each service.
  • VL-MICA and Hisar D for MR-SAM and Aster 30 and Siper for LR-SAM at TNI-AL.
  • NASAMS and KM-SAM2 for MR-SAM at TNI-AU.
  • While Hisar O and BUK-MD2K for MR-SAM and Siper and (rumours) HQ-9 for LR-SAM at TNI-AD. That's so far what I can gather base on inventory, contract and strong sales lobby rumours.
If they got 2 type for each category in my opinion is already standardize enough for TNI procurement practices. Remember each services also shown similar tendencies on their SHORAD procurement so far.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Ananda said:
From what I gather it is TNI-AU that shown interest on KM-SAM. The talk/rumours indicate precaution with Norway export policy plus long queue in getting AIM 120 C/D is main reason to find alternative for NASAMS.

Remember this is not talking yet on MBDA Aster 30 for PPA and potential HQ9 for Long Range SAM. Yes seems they are working for two choices for each categories for each service.
  • VL-MICA and Hisar D for MR-SAM and Aster 30 and Siper for LR-SAM at TNI-AL.
  • NASAMS and KM-SAM2 for MR-SAM at TNI-AU.
  • While Hisar O and BUK-MD2K for MR-SAM and Siper and (rumours) HQ-9 for LR-SAM at TNI-AD. That's so far what I can gather base on inventory, contract and strong sales lobby rumours.
If they got 2 type for each category in my opinion is already standardize enough for TNI procurement practices. Remember each services also shown similar tendencies on their SHORAD procurement so far.
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Yes, for decades our armed forces had a huge amount of various low cost 3rd World Country air defence systems againt low and slow flying airtargets, like the Seacat, 9K32M Strela-2M , Rapier, RBS-70, M55, Kobra (ZU-23-2KG + GROM), Type 85/Giant Bow, S-60, M1939 61-K...

So it was a leap forward when we got those empty NASAMS 2 launchers at Teluk Naga.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
ComradeVortex said:
View attachment 54941
www.janes.com

Indonesia issues letter of intent for MSAM-II air defence system

Indonesia's Ministry of Defence Logistics Agency has issued a letter of intent (LOI) to LIG Defense & Aerospace for the procurement of the MSAM-II (medium range...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
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This can be the best replacement for the NASAMS 2. Hopefully also a decent amount of missiles will be ordered in the package, and not just a handful like what happened to NASAMS 2 and VL-MICA.
 
ComradeVortex

ComradeVortex

New Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Hopefully also a decent amount of missiles will be ordered in the package, and not just a handful like what happened to NASAMS 2 and VL-MICA.
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Something that bothers me a lot. In a theoretical high intenisty conflict, how much would we last? How do we deal with saturation of AD? Something that we both saw in Ukraine and Middle East. I do hope that we get a lot of missiles.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I found some firearms orders on Facebook...
KERIS reborn
1. Why ordering the FN Minimi from Turkiye if Pindad produce it under licence (SM3)?
2. Since when does Turkiye produce the Minimi under licence?

KERIS reborn
I think it is a version of the AT (Accuracy Tactical) model which was introduced in 2014 as a cheaper alternative to the more expensive AX series which are intended for military use. The AT on the other hand is intended for law enforcement and civilian use one, so i wonder if the order of 8 rifles is for TNI or POLRI.
AT-X Mil short action 6.5 Creedmoor/.308 WIN Sniper rifle
 
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Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Sandhi Yudha said:
Since when does Turkiye produce the Minimi under licence?
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They already license produce Minimi for sometime. Why not stick with Pindad Minimi (SM3), I see two things possibilities:
  1. The production capacity of SM3,
  2. The Salesman of this Turkiye Minimi had good lobby ;).

ComradeVortex said:
How do we deal with saturation of AD? Something that we both saw in Ukraine and Middle East. I do hope that we get a lot of missiles.
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There's seems some better ammo procurement practises recently. We can see that with Rafale procurement contract. However the practices of different procurement contract between platform and ammo will still stays in my opinion.

There are rumours that I heard, a logic from MinDef to diversified missile types to ensure better supply availabilities if things get hot. I'm not defending nor to comment much, as just to shown diversified logics due matter much on Indonesian MinDef planning.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Ananda said:


They already license produce Minimi for sometime. Why not stick with Pindad Minimi (SM3), I see two things possibilities:
  1. The production capacity of SM3,
  2. The Salesman of this Turkiye Minimi had good lobby ;).
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1. If an official claims Pindad can not handle an order of just 201 machineguns, then he is a first class comedian.
2. So the right answer is pure corruption.
 
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